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Thread: FREEDOM

  1. #1 FREEDOM 
    Forum Freshman BitterSweet's Avatar
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    So I started a new site called "Through the Hourglass" http://bittersweetlove08.webs.com/ and it's basically about having freedom. just a place to express ourselves etc.... it's not complete, but it's available.

    but do you believe that freedom actually exists?


    Who's John Galt? - Atlas Shrugged
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  3. #2  
    Forum Ph.D. Steve Miller's Avatar
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    Hello,

    yes freedom was real, I think. And, we defend freedom against the enemies of men.

    Steve


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  4. #3  
    Forum Junior newnothing's Avatar
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    Man's greatest enemy is himself... (is it a quote from something?)
    ~ One’s ultimate perfection depends on the development of all the members of society ~ Kabbalah
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  5. #4  
    Forum Ph.D. Steve Miller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by newnothing
    Man's greatest enemy is himself... (is it a quote from something?)
    Who was going to protect man, if that was true???
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  6. #5  
    Forum Professor marcusclayman's Avatar
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    Freedom is an idea, believed in by many, manipulated by few.
    Dick, be Frank.

    Ambiguity Kills.
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  7. #6  
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    Join her forum if you guys can, it's quite homie
    Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools, because they have to say something.
    -Plato

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  8. #7  
    Forum Ph.D. Steve Miller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcane_Mathematician
    Join her forum if you guys can, it's quite homie
    Yes, do. You'll be surprised.
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  9. #8  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard spuriousmonkey's Avatar
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    Life is constraints.

    learn to deal with it. The option to do so constitutes your freedom.
    "Kill them all and let God sort them out."

    - Arnaud Amalric

    http://spuriousforums.com/index.php
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  10. #9  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Miller
    Quote Originally Posted by Arcane_Mathematician
    Join her forum if you guys can, it's quite homie
    Yes, do. You'll be surprised.
    yes you will but it's still a decent deal.
    Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools, because they have to say something.
    -Plato

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  11. #10  
    Forum Ph.D. Steve Miller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcane_Mathematician
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Miller
    Quote Originally Posted by Arcane_Mathematician
    Join her forum if you guys can, it's quite homie
    Yes, do. You'll be surprised.
    yes you will but it's still a decent deal.
    Pardon?
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  12. #11  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard icewendigo's Avatar
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    Freedom is a great concept(human construct that reflects a prespective) that people sometimes vawe like a flag or chant like a slogan while failing to contextualize it.


    If you are alone on an island, you are 'free', you have no human social constraints, you pay no taxes(wave the flag, throw confeti), but you arent able (arent 'free' to) do a vast array of activities available in society and will most likely be compelled to spend most of your time struggling just to survive.

    On the other hand, if you live in a civilized society, you will probably have access to many opportunities and activities, but will have to deal with societies guidelines and the principle of macro/cummulative-effects that might not be apparent from you individual(ist) perspective (a principle typically underestimated if not completely overlooked by many Libertarians). The 'freedom' to drive around like a maniac has limited consequences if you are by yourself on an island or in rural contryside, but if everyone in a populated area drives around like a maniac the cummulated effect is catastrophic and offsets that would-be freedom(you dont have the fredom to drive like a maniac because you are dead stoped locked in trafic because some other maniac crashed in an intersection and is now blocking the road for himelf and everyone else). Or, you may not have the individual freedom to let your dog shit on the sidewalk without scooping it, but everyone including you will have the collective benefit of having the freedom to walk around without steping in shit all the time. Having your dog shit where he may without scooping it is not an issue if you live on an island or in the counrtyside or in the past(fronteer) where individual freedom is more relevant/adapted to the prevailing environment.

    Also beyond the individual vs society aspect from an environment perspective(in the sense thats the environment you happen to live in), theres the individual vs organized group from a functional perspective. An organized group is more powerful/potent/able to affect the environement than a lone individual or a group of individualistic/seperate/unorganized individuals. The aristocracy understands this which is why worker unions get bad PR. Individuals will never set foot on other planets without the technology, specialization and infrastructure made possible and created by groups. But for the group to be effective, you have to take into account other individual's and the group's goal.

    Greater Freedom also requires spending less time in your daily life to to get basic nessesities to live, and access to information. If surviving requires that you spend most of your waking time on working for someone else(because you have to as opposed to work because you like it enough that you would do it if you didnt need the money/food), your freedom is limited even if you can switch from one task-master to another. And without access to information (especially subversive/censored/unpopular/illegal information or ideas) you can be a slave and not even realize it (at all or fully).
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