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Thread: forgotten logic question

  1. #1 forgotten logic question 
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    1.Three gods A, B, and C are called, in some order, True, False, and Random. True always speaks truly, False always speaks falsely, but whether Random speaks truly or falsely is a completely random matter. Your task is to determine the identities of A, B, and C by asking three yes-no questions; each question must be put to exactly one god. The gods understand English, but will answer all questions in their own language, in which the words for yes and no are 'da' and 'ja', in some order. You do not know which word means which


    found this in a thread from over a year ago.

    I figured I'd resurrect the puzzle for Y'all to enjoy


    Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools, because they have to say something.
    -Plato

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  3. #2  
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    nothing of the kind may happen
    it's not a matter of discussion
    The gods always speak truly



    i'm not sure of course but I think liar's paradox can be used ...


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  4. #3  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard spuriousmonkey's Avatar
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    Gods are all powerful. They can lie when they speak the truth and vice versa.
    "Kill them all and let God sort them out."

    - Arnaud Amalric

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  5. #4  
    Forum Ph.D. Leszek Luchowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by devrimci_kürt
    The gods always speak truly
    It's obvious you've never been to Valhalla.
    Leszek. Pronounced [LEH-sheck]. The wondering Slav.
    History teaches us that we don't learn from history.
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  6. #5  
    Reptile Dysfunction drowsy turtle's Avatar
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    Talk to archaeologist's god, and he will just keep teling you how wrong you are.
    "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." ~ Douglas Adams
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    I've been trying to figure it out, so far it seems impossible. Too many variables.
    Dick, be Frank.

    Ambiguity Kills.
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  8. #7  
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    intresting :?
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  9. #8  
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    I looked it up on wikipedia, and I have determined that, the way it's worded, there is no way to solve it (wiki says otherwise)
    Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools, because they have to say something.
    -Plato

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    Very difficult anyway!!

    Can I ask people don't print the answer, or if they do put it in a form it cannot be seen as a 'spoiler' ie in white in if that works.


    Spoiiler - "this should be white ink"

    Then you can see the answer if you wish by 'selecting it' (as if to cut and paste)
    I think each god needs A B or C stamped on his forehead to make it solvable?
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    Can someone clarify if the questioner knows who is A B and C?
    I really hate it when a puzzel is put in such a way so that the biggest puzzel is figureing out what the actual puzzle is.
    I had a quick look at the link posted taking care not to look at the solution and it seems the same god could be called in thre times.
    That is not at all clear from the wording of the question, indeed the question seems to clearly state that each god is called in in a random order. That is what I had assumed!!
    Also I am still unclear as to whether he identify A B and C when he calls them because thatis not specified either, so I don't think I will waste any more time on it.

    Further more it says that each question must be put to one god, however as the same god can get called in every time that is not possilble and it shows what an utter pigs ear the puzzle is.

    I don't think I have ever read such a load of garbage in my life, and that is saying something!!
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  13. #12  
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    actually, you have three gods infront of you, god A on the left, God B in Front, and God C on the right. You can pose ONE question, to ONE God, that is the rule. You can ask one god three questions, or you can ask Each God One question, or even ask One god 2 and one of the others One. Those are the rules.
    Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools, because they have to say something.
    -Plato

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    Reptile Dysfunction drowsy turtle's Avatar
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    I have an idea;

    Ask each of them a question which cannot be answered by a yes or a no.

    One of them will not be able to answer. That is the god who tells the truth.
    "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." ~ Douglas Adams
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  15. #14  
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    and possibly random... who may speak truly
    Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools, because they have to say something.
    -Plato

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    Forum Professor marcusclayman's Avatar
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    and I thought the numerology post was frying peoples brains... I guess there are different parts to fry... LOL
    Dick, be Frank.

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    I THINK I might have a solution, not sure though.

    Go up to God A and ask, (1) are you going to answer this question in the negative? if the god says something, I know it is the affirmative answer in his language, then he is a liar, and is NOT Truth. in the first case I will proceed with this question: (2a) Is God B's name Truth? If I get an answer that is affirmative (what was said in the first question) then I will assume that God A is False and God B is Random or vis versa, and that God C is, invariably, Truth. I will then proceed to God C and ask, (3a) Is God B Random? If I get an affirmative answer, then I will have all the gods names by process of elimination. If Truth answers in the Negative, then I will still have all the Gods names by process of elimination.

    I will post the rest of my lines of questions tomorrow, really short on time, highlight the big block in the middle of my post to cheat :wink:
    Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools, because they have to say something.
    -Plato

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcane_Mathematician
    actually, you have three gods infront of you, god A on the left, God B in Front, and God C on the right. You can pose ONE question, to ONE God, that is the rule. You can ask one god three questions, or you can ask Each God One question, or even ask One god 2 and one of the others One. Those are the rules.
    Ah if that is the case then I think I have a sloution infact I am almost certain I have,
    I had a partical solution which worked if the first God answered Yes to my question, but I had a problem with it if he answered no, IIRC.


    Actually I am not sure if I recall correctly as I can't work it out but at least I understand the problem now! That's a start!! At least know it mmight be possible now,
    Still can't do it though, I will try again later! :?
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    Right I had a go at it and came up with a method below between the ===, be warned it may be a load of b*ll**ks

    Possible spoiler below!!
    ============================
    The question is "are you random" to each.

    It both (the first two, A and B) answer yes then the third (C) is true so you just ask the third who you know is true if A if random, if he is then B must be False by elimination.

    Note only True will never answer yes to "are you randon" so two yeses means True has not yet answered.

    If first says y he either R or F if second say no he either R or T
    I present then the three possiblities for the first two below, FT, FR and RT (RR is impossible) and the possible answers the third can give. Note some are impossiible
    so the answer is the possible one.

    a)

    FT y=RF FTR or FTF
    n=RT FTR or FTT

    answer FTR


    FR y RF FRR or FRF
    n=RT FRR or FRT

    answer FTR



    RT Y=RF RTR or RTF
    N=RT RTR or RTT


    answer RTF
    b)


    Now for first answering N, that means he is either T or R if the second answers N
    then you know false is left so you negate his answer to is A random.


    Final case

    First says N (so he is R or T ) second says Y, so you either have (R or F)

    So the possibilites are


    RR= invalid.

    RF

    TR

    TF


    Now I have not done the rest of it bbut I believe it will work out as it did for
    the first answers being Y then N, from a) to b) so you will be able to deduce the only possible values because similarly some will be invalid.

    Anyway I am not going to do that right now because I am tired and slightly drunk.

    So either it works or I have made a big fool or my self, the beers says
    I have not but experience tells me I have totaly screwed up.

    I trust experence more than the beer at the momment!!

    Anyway atleast I had a go!

    ==============================
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    Well I had a look at the answer and it seems I forgot that the ya or da bit so it is invalid.
    I can't actually understand the solution anyway but I was thinking if miine did work if I knew da or ya that maybe I could work out the answer anyway, if indeed what I did worked for yes and no, but I may end up with two sets of possilble answers because I don't know which is Y or N.

    Anyway enough!!
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  21. #20  
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    I have a really good solution to this problem. Just ask A if B really likes to have wild goat sex and see who turns their head. If A strikes you dead then you know that was really B. If not then ask C if A prefers to wear high heals while watching A have wild goat sex. I think you get the point.
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    Yes, you can't work it out!!
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  23. #22  
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    I was just curious who'd kill the most braincells over it... I think esbo won that

    it can be worked out though. You just need to use a paradoxical argument.
    Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools, because they have to say something.
    -Plato

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  24. #23  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcane_Mathematician
    I was just curious who'd kill the most braincells over it... I think esbo won that

    it can be worked out though. You just need to use a paradoxical argument.
    Yes I burnt a few!! I have whited out the rest of my my reply incase it is a 'spolier

    -----------------


    It seemed I was right about the essence of what to ask are you random however the solution given is to ask is another God random, in a more complex way with that
    'iff' stuff.

    First I tried asking the first God if he was random but that seemed to break down depending on the answer give, then I thought I could wokl it out by asking if another God was random but I kind of gave up on that as it was so comple to think about.

    Then I went back to my original method and seem to have came up with a solution
    but it ignore the da bit and take a yes as yes etc...

    However I am not 100% sure it works but maybe it does.

    Does anyone think it works?

    Can anyone even follow it!!


    -----------
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  25. #24  
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    Quote Originally Posted by drowsy turtle
    I have an idea;

    Ask each of them a question which cannot be answered by a yes or a no.

    One of them will not be able to answer. That is the god who tells the truth.
    you are quite right there mate..... because if we even TRIED to answer his question then we would all be lying.... because there is no logical or scientific way of answering this question....
    "Give Your Soul to me For Eternity, and take Your place Inside The Fire in my Life" "Inside The Fire" by Disturbed

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