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Thread: Can we change our destiny if there is one?

  1. #1 Can we change our destiny if there is one? 
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    Is our lives predestined? If ever science is able to create time travel into the future, would we be able to change our fate if what we see in the future scares us? Would you want to Change your destiny if it is not to your liking?


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  3. #2  
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    Well if time travel is developed, I don't think you would be able to go back in time to a time when there was no time travel. Therefore I at this point in my life would not be able to go back and change anything. However forgetting this, Im sure you would be able to change your future by changing your past, but may screw everything up, (like in Back to the Future XD) Would I like to change my density? At this point, no (...well I might like to go back and not fail that last math test :P) but I'd be worried that I'd just make it worst if I changed it.


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    The way i see it time travel never happens, or at least not in a way that you could interfere with the past, or else we would know becuz some one or perhaps many people would have went back to a time before us and there would be evidense that they did so. And i know it's strange to talk about the future as if it were the past but if someone had went back in time dont you think they would have warned us about global warming and all the other problems we're facing today? Neways that's my take on it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Z
    The way i see it time travel never happens, or at least not in a way that you could interfere with the past, or else we would know becuz some one or perhaps many people would have went back to a time before us and there would be evidense that they did so. And i know it's strange to talk about the future as if it were the past but if someone had went back in time dont you think they would have warned us about global warming and all the other problems we're facing today? Neways that's my take on it.
    You're right that time travel does not exist and will not either. So there is no way of knowing what will happen to us in the next second. Whatever that happens next is beyond our control. If that is the case, where is our freewill?
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    I'm sorry, but to believe in destiny is dumb.
    I make my own decisions everyday. In fact, every second of my life is led by my actions, and it has its own consequences.

    I want to make myself clear, so I will give you an ample example:

    2 options: either go to school @ 6 pm or go buy my sister a nice present for her upcoming bday. If I go to school, nothing interesting happens. If I go to the mall, I may bump into an old friend that makes my heart boom. From there on, we decide to date and from date we develop a serious relationship, we have kids, we live a happy life together. And this happens because I've decided to not go to school that day.

    What I'm saying is, our future is in our hands. Even when outside factors interfere with our life, STILL, our decision has the last word.

    Destiny is just a concept. Like I said in other threads, concepts like "i love you", "time", "destiny", "heaven", "hell" and so many others are just babies of human mind that continuously tries to make our lives easier by making sense.
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  7. #6  
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    The future is not set, there is no fate but what we make for ourselves. And that is so true...
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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    You can't change or influence the future, whatever you do, it was going to happen nyway...
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  9. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Numii
    I'm sorry, but to believe in destiny is dumb.
    I make my own decisions everyday. In fact, every second of my life is led by my actions, and it has its own consequences.

    I want to make myself clear, so I will give you an ample example:

    2 options: either go to school @ 6 pm or go buy my sister a nice present for her upcoming bday. If I go to school, nothing interesting happens. If I go to the mall, I may bump into an old friend that makes my heart boom. From there on, we decide to date and from date we develop a serious relationship, we have kids, we live a happy life together. And this happens because I've decided to not go to school that day.

    What I'm saying is, our future is in our hands. Even when outside factors interfere with our life, STILL, our decision has the last word.

    Destiny is just a concept. Like I said in other threads, concepts like "i love you", "time", "destiny", "heaven", "hell" and so many others are just babies of human mind that continuously tries to make our lives easier by making sense.
    Can we be sure that we're making our own decisions? The 1st option of going to school has been predetermined by the laws of society where generally all ppl of school going age are required to go to school. The 2nd option comes from the thought of yours to go buy your sis a present. There maybe many other options and we can say we make our own choices. But where did all these choices/options come from? from ourselves? or is it from the surrounding environment and its network of cause and consequence? The network of cause and consequence, society's culture, its history, everything, is the reason the 2 options came to mind. So you choose between the two, weighing the pros and cons between both options according to your individual perception. So how great is that freewill? We're as if enclosed in a black box with two pin holes to peep through the outside world and we think we make our own choices of which hole to peep through.
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  10. #9  
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    What you say makes sense, indeed. Our choices depend on history, our past experiences, where we were born, when we were born, people we choose to hang out with, education received from parents, successes achieved and more important, current environment.

    However, decisions still come from within. There isn't something above us that rule us like puppets. My opinion.

    If you really want to go down that path, you could say one thing about destiny: time and place we're born isn't our decision. And it's the greatest "detail" we're omitting. If I was born in USA in 1900, I certainly wouldn't have been the woman I am now.
    But throughout life, especially after we take flight from parent's protecting wing, life is in our hands. Totally.
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    Your destiny is predetermined. You of course can freely change your destiny every single moment of your life. In the end it's still your predetermined destiny to change your destiny countless times in order to fulfill your destiny.

    Does that answer your question ?
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  12. #11  
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    How can a destiny be predetermined if you change it as many times you want ?
    Predetermined means to stick with one path, along the way.
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    I find cruise ships are a brillaint example of destiny.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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  14. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Numii
    How can a destiny be predetermined if you change it as many times you want ?
    Predetermined means to stick with one path, along the way.
    Maybe you should see it like this: The decisions you make cause where your life is going (your so called destiny). If you alter your decisions, your future and thereby your destiny changes.

    Also how do you know something would not happen if you made an other decision. What is our decisions only make when it happens and not if it happens. Maybe if you would've gone to school you would have met you're old friend later on.
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  15. #14  
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    Artemis, destiny by definition "refers to a predetermined course of events. It may be conceived as a predetermined future, whether in general or of an individual. It is a concept based on the belief that there is a fixed natural order to the universe."

    and you say...

    If you alter your decisions, your future and thereby your destiny changes.

    How can you change something that is predetermined? Pre-organized, thought in advance, pre-drawn for you?

    It's either : you follow the path
    Or: there is no destiny => change it as many times you want.

    You either believe in destiny or not. A destiny isnt something that you can change. It's a myth that says : it cannot be changed.

    I'm asking: which one is plausible?
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    Well, then can't there be something that is in between. Like that some parts of our life are predetermined yet how we get there is free to ourselves?

    Just to make it clear: I do not believe that our choices don't influence our lives and so I do not believe in what people call destiny
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  17. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Numii
    How can a destiny be predetermined if you change it as many times you want ?
    Predetermined means to stick with one path, along the way.
    Really simple, you may think your changing your destiny however it was your destiny to try and change your destiny thus actually fulfilling that which you were trying to change.

    It will be what it is, change or no change it still ends up being what it is.

    If one were to believe in prediction of the future and had a close friend constantly telling that person what is going to happen it would not change their destiny. Their destiny would have been to find that person and do certain things based on the information they provided.

    Ohh wow, I cheated death by having information forehand. Nope, you simply did exactly what you were suppose to do.
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  18. #17  
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    So what you're saying is... no matter how many times i change my mind about something, destiny catch up with me, and it was predetermined for me to change my mind.

    I'm sorry. I just choose not to believe in destiny and think my own free choices come from within and not from any other source. >_<
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    Quote Originally Posted by Numii
    So what you're saying is... no matter how many times i change my mind about something, destiny catch up with me, and it was predetermined for me to change my mind.

    I'm sorry. I just choose not to believe in destiny and think my own free choices come from within and not from any other source. >_<
    My point was, if you believe it or not would make absolutely no difference. My intention was not to convince you in either direction. The choices you have made are just fine.
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  20. #19  
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    Given that there are an infinite number of possibilities, how can you say one path is correct whereas others are not?

    I believe the selection of these possibilities is random, and so in no way predetermined.
    "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." ~ Douglas Adams
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    Quote Originally Posted by drowsy turtle
    Given that there are an infinite number of possibilities, how can you say one path is correct whereas others are not?

    I believe the selection of these possibilities is random, and so in no way predetermined.
    It seems to us as random because we cannot see how it would affect us in the future. Because we don't know, that is why it is random. When the unknown becomes known, it will no longer be random.
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  22. #21  
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    Quote Originally Posted by newnothing
    Quote Originally Posted by drowsy turtle
    Given that there are an infinite number of possibilities, how can you say one path is correct whereas others are not?

    I believe the selection of these possibilities is random, and so in no way predetermined.
    It seems to us as random because we cannot see how it would affect us in the future. Because we don't know, that is why it is random. When the unknown becomes known, it will no longer be random.
    If you had two universes that started out as identical, after a few million years would they still be identicle?

    Hmmmm, 'tis all far too hypothetical for me to really think about too much, to be honest.
    "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." ~ Douglas Adams
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  23. #22  
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    Quote Originally Posted by drowsy turtle
    Quote Originally Posted by newnothing
    Quote Originally Posted by drowsy turtle
    Given that there are an infinite number of possibilities, how can you say one path is correct whereas others are not?

    I believe the selection of these possibilities is random, and so in no way predetermined.
    It seems to us as random because we cannot see how it would affect us in the future. Because we don't know, that is why it is random. When the unknown becomes known, it will no longer be random.
    If you had two universes that started out as identical, after a few million years would they still be identicle?

    Hmmmm, 'tis all far too hypothetical for me to really think about too much, to be honest.
    Exactly my point.

    I'm aware that this randomness in any way, either order or chaos, leads to something in the future. But there isn't something/someone that already created this random FOR us.
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    Even if such a thing exists, will we ever really know?
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    Why is there always someone destined to ask awkward questions?
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    Quote Originally Posted by drowsy turtle
    Why is there always someone destined to ask awkward questions?
    You mean like that one?
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    We have our own destinies, even if you could control time and move about in it, you can never change your own personal time line. You will do what it is you will regardless of even though you make your own choices or not, destiny is always ahead.

    But you can always try and disobey your destiny if it makes you feel better
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Wolf
    We have our own destinies, even if you could control time and move about in it, you can never change your own personal time line. You will do what it is you will regardless of even though you make your own choices or not, destiny is always ahead.
    So suppose timetraveling would be possible. If we would go back in time we would end up exactly where we are now? Regardless if we change everything we do?
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  29. #28  
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    Well you can interact with your past self, but it isn't really you at all because you don't remember it happening; you are in a different cause and effect universe. You can change your past and future selves destinies relative to your own, but you can never change your own, relative to your own self.
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  30. #29  
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    drowsy turtle,

    I think a galaxy yet would still ever be the same if the circumstances of origin where the same as the ones of an other galaxy.

    But, yes in case there was a second universe, if the origin was the same, its the same as an other universe even as an eternity yet passed.

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    Just a thought, but our personalities and how we behave depends on both our DNA and the environment in which we live/have grown up.

    So our reactions to specific events are related to who we are an where we where born. Can't you say those reactions are kind of predetermed?

    And that by having the DNA we have and the personalities we have, we also have the destiny to react the way we do??

    Does anybody even understand what i'm trying to say
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  32. #31  
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    Yes
    Dick, be Frank.

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    oops, double post
    Dick, be Frank.

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  34. #33 time 
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    I believe time is an illusion just like the horizon .

    Man could not imagine existing on a marble in space so man believed we lived on a flat surface where we could fall off the edge.

    There is no past or future. There is only now and all "time" is coexistent

    As for our destiny, we plan it before we enter this realm

    Let me expound. We are a combination of mater and spirit.(energy)
    Everything in the universe is recycled. There is no waste of matter or energy.

    We enter this realm to improve ourselves. Hopefully to recycle in a higher plane. Each time we polish another rough spot in ourselves until we are pure spirit and can ascent to a total spiritual existence.
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  35. #34 Re: time 
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    Quote Originally Posted by pscharley
    I believe time is an illusion just like the horizon .

    Man could not imagine existing on a marble in space so man believed we lived on a flat surface where we could fall off the edge.

    There is no past or future. There is only now and all "time" is coexistent

    As for our destiny, we plan it before we enter this realm

    Let me expound. We are a combination of mater and spirit.(energy)
    Everything in the universe is recycled. There is no waste of matter or energy.

    We enter this realm to improve ourselves. Hopefully to recycle in a higher plane. Each time we polish another rough spot in ourselves until we are pure spirit and can ascent to a total spiritual existence.
    It's not a new concept, but one I often endorse.
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    I third the idea. Always been a supporter of it.
    Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools, because they have to say something.
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  37. #36  
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    What if we are not destined to change our destiny?
    "Kill them all and let God sort them out."

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    or what if we are destined not to have a destiny ?
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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  39. #38  
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    Quote Originally Posted by marnixR
    or what if we are destined not to have a destiny ?
    Ha, then that would be your destiny
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  40. #39  
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    Was jesus destined to end up on the cross (step father, troublesome youth), or did he choose to go on that particular road up the mountain (rebel, want to stand out, leave a mark on history).
    "Kill them all and let God sort them out."

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  41. #40  
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    We're not going to get anywhere by asking sarcastic and rhetorical questions, though, are we?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artemis
    Just a thought, but our personalities and how we behave depends on both our DNA and the environment in which we live/have grown up.

    So our reactions to specific events are related to who we are an where we where born. Can't you say those reactions are kind of predetermed?

    And that by having the DNA we have and the personalities we have, we also have the destiny to react the way we do??

    Does anybody even understand what i'm trying to say
    I do I think, we may think we have choices in life but you could argue those choice are determined for us.

    For example I say pick a number so pick one you can pick any.

    Now if I rolled back the clock and asked you the same question again I believe you would pick the same number.

    You can do the same with a randon number generator.

    Even if the result was based on the emmisions of radiactivity from a radioactive source, would it be different if you went back in time?

    So did you pick the number or did Quantum physics?

    Every decision is the result of a huge combination of chemical/physical reactions.
    You might think you made if but the ractions choose it for you.
    But you come down to uncertainty at the quantum level so maybe your soul lies there.

    I think Einstin said God does not play dice, maybe he does or maybe your soul 'rolls' the dice?
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  43. #42  
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    Quote Originally Posted by spuriousmonkey
    Was jesus destined to end up on the cross (step father, troublesome youth), or did he choose to go on that particular road up the mountain (rebel, want to stand out, leave a mark on history).
    At least he thought it was his destiny to end up on the cross.I think it was either destiny or bad luck... who knows...

    btw esbo, I think you nailed it perfectly. You got my point and even 'perfected' it... Thanks 8)
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  44. #43  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artemis
    it was his destiny to end up on the cross.

    btw esbo, I think you nailed it perfectly.
    There is a Jesus killer in our midst!!!
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  45. #44  
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    Quote Originally Posted by drowsy turtle
    There is a Jesus killer in our midst!!!
    lol aren't we all?
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  46. #45  
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    Well, I have been told before that me being atheist hurts Jesus, so...
    "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." ~ Douglas Adams
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    Quote Originally Posted by drowsy turtle
    Well, I have been told before that me being atheist hurts Jesus, so...
    Yeah not being christian probably does hurt him... But if we where christian he died for our sins, so we're to blame anyway...
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  48. #47  
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    So really, a good christian would kill him to end his misery, right?

    Only, a good christian would believe Jesus goes to heaven, where atheism still hurts him.

    So we should all be atheist, kill jesus, and prove that heaven does not exist, in order to be good christians.
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  49. #48  
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    Quote Originally Posted by spuriousmonkey
    Was jesus destined to end up on the cross (step father, troublesome youth), or did he choose to go on that particular road up the mountain (rebel, want to stand out, leave a mark on history).
    Perhaps he was 'destined' to make men meter time?

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    There is a destiny for not only humans, but for all other existence types. It is a chaotic one, because all of our dependencies (DNA mutates, atoms decay, planet transforms, sun will finish, etc.) are interdependently changing, they are not aware of us, they do not care about us. Scientist can make approximate predictions about the cycles and life time of our dependencies, thousand year for some, million year for some others... What is, for instance, the death? Isn't it currently our ultimate destiny? Despite the fact that we have started to realise our environment beyond any predictions better than 200 years ago, we still share same destiny with all living organisms ever walked on earth. Our technology would have looked like quite alien to a person from this part of the history. Yet we still consume -as well as being consumed to- various types of ape origin emotions and material realities; some of them we enjoy, some of them we suffer. So, when we take off the cloths, we are still largely recognizable by anyone from past.

    Time and space have their own agendas independent from us, and they will necessarily change or destroy our species as well as our entire material and non-material creation. What I believe is that we can free our destiny. In order to do that there are two possible ways:

    One is to find a totally different universe which has different set of rules than ours. This option is the most unlikely one, since we can not properly move out of this planet yet. Another problem with this option is that we do not even know if there was such a universe and/or would we be able to survive there. I belive (do not know) a contact with an intelligent alien civilization in somewhere in the future is maybe a million times more likely than finding another universe. (Some may claim the opposite: If we could damage the fabric of spacetime we might find ourselves outside of this universe, before we visit any other star.) We did not find any evidence of life or life like organisations in any place. Not a bacteria from Mars, not a picture from stars. Not yet...

    Second one is to alternate and protect our existence as long as possible within this universe. For this, we have to master the natural forces and their material forms which makes everything we know, everything our existence depends on, and everything we have. We can regenerate cells, repair our bodies, modify our civilization, alternate our dependencies or even transfer our existence on different physical forms; we can expand the basics of existence. Destiny can be changed with dreams and formulas.
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  51. #50 Re: Can we change our destiny if there is one? 
    Forum Ph.D. Steve Miller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by newnothing
    Is our lives predestined? If ever science is able to create time travel into the future, would we be able to change our fate if what we see in the future scares us? Would you want to Change your destiny if it is not to your liking?
    Well, I mean if it was your destiny already you can't change it. You might change your live or something, but not your destiny. What I observe, folks where making it worse as it was bad, yet. But, anyway, keep on trying.

    However, these are serious questions and eligible thoughts, I think.

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  52. #51  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Numii
    I'm sorry, but to believe in destiny is dumb.
    I make my own decisions everyday. In fact, every second of my life is led by my actions, and it has its own consequences.

    I want to make myself clear, so I will give you an ample example:

    2 options: either go to school @ 6 pm or go buy my sister a nice present for her upcoming bday. If I go to school, nothing interesting happens. If I go to the mall, I may bump into an old friend that makes my heart boom. From there on, we decide to date and from date we develop a serious relationship, we have kids, we live a happy life together. And this happens because I've decided to not go to school that day.

    What I'm saying is, our future is in our hands. Even when outside factors interfere with our life, STILL, our decision has the last word.

    Destiny is just a concept. Like I said in other threads, concepts like "i love you", "time", "destiny", "heaven", "hell" and so many others are just babies of human mind that continuously tries to make our lives easier by making sense.
    i know what u mean.... i dont want to believe in destiny or 'fate' because i dont like the idea that im not in control of my life.... and it kinda sucks if we're all pre destined..... because dont we think of things to do everyday??? but what makes us think like that??
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    Destiny is really a scary word

    But if you theorize that you planned "your destiny" before you came to this planet, then try to think of what you have changed about your self or learned about the philosophy of life. There is a reason for everything. When our mission here is finished we go home to another realm where the human body is not needed.

    There we rest, take stock and decide if we need to come back to tie up some loose ends

    "life is a bridge. Do not build your house on it"
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