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Thread: WOULDN'T THIS BE AN AWESOME PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH?

  1. #1 WOULDN'T THIS BE AN AWESOME PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH? 
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    *YOU TURN ON THE TV AND YOU SEE THE PRESIDENT BEGIN A SPEECH*

    My Fello Americans: As you all know, the defeat of Iraq's regime has been completed. Since congress does not want to spend any more money on this war, our mission is complete in Iraq.

    This morning I gave the order for a complete removal of all American forces from Iraq. This action will be complete within 30 days. It is now time to begin the reckoning.

    Before me, I have two lists. One list contains the names of countries which have stood by out side during the Iraq conflict. This list is short.

    The United Kingdom, Spain, Bulgaria, Australia, and Poland are some of the countries listed there.

    The other list contains everyone not on the first list. Most of the world's nations are on that list. My press secretary will be distributing copies of both lists later this evening.

    Let me start by saying that effective immediately, foreign aid to those nations on List 2 ceases immediately and indefinately. The money saved during the first year alone will pretty much pay for the costs of the Iraqi War.

    The American people are no longer going to pour money into third world Hell-holes and watch those government leaders grow fat on corruption.

    Need help with a famine? Wrestling with an epidemic? Call France.

    In the future, together with Congress, I will work to redirect this money toward solving the vexing social problems we still have at home.

    On that note, a word to terrorist organizations. Screw with us and we will hunt you down and eliminate you and all your friends from the face of the earth.

    Thirsting for a gutsy country to terrorize? Try France, or maybe China.

    I am ordering the immediate severing of diplomatic relations with France, Germany and Russia. Thanks for all your help, comrades. We are retiring from NATO as well. Bon chance, mes Amis.

    I have instructed the Mayor of New York City to begin towing the many UN diplomatic vehicles located in Manhattan with more than two unpaid parking tickets to sites where those vehicles will be stripped, shredded and crushed. I don't care about whatever treaty pertains to this. You creeps have tens of thousands of unpaid tickets. Pay those tickets tomorrow or watch as your precious Benzes, Beamers and limos are turned over to some of the finest chop shops in the world. I love New York.

    A special not to our neighbors. Canada is on List 2. Since we are likely to be seeing a lot more of each other, you folks might want to try not pissing us off for a change.

    Mexico is also on List 2. President Fox and his entire corrupt government really need an attitude adjustment. I will have a couple extra tank and infantry divisions sitting around. Guess where I am going to put 'em?

    Yep, border security. So start doing someting with your oil.

    Oh, by the way, the United States is abrogating the NAFTA treaty-starting now.

    We are tired of the one-way highway. Immediately, we'll be drilling for oil in Alaska-which will take care of this country's oil needs for decades to come. If you're and enviromentalist, who opposes this decision, I refer you to List 2 above: pick a country and move there. They care. It is time for America to focus on its own welfare and its own citizens.

    Some will accuse us of isolationism. I answer them by saying, "darn tootin."

    Nearly a century of trying to help folks live a decent life around the world has only earned us the undying enmity of just about everyone on the planet.

    It is time to eliminate hunger in America. It is time to eliminate homelessness in America. It is time to eliminate World Cup Soccer from America.

    To the nations on List 1, a final thought. Thanks guys. We owe you and we won't forget.

    To the nations on List 2, a final thought: You might want to learn to speak Arabic.

    God bless America. Thank you and good night.

    *If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you are reading it in English, thank a soldier. (Please forward this to atleast ten friends and see what happens! Let's get this to ever USA computer!)*


    I may not yet have learned all that I want to, but I can think up alot on my own...
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  3. #2  
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    lol
    what list would you put ireland on?
    :P
    Need help with a famine? Wrestling with an epidemic? Call France.
    "sorry we aren't here to take your call right now, please leave your nations name, and number, and well get right back to you!"
    Thirsting for a gutsy country to terrorize? Try France, or maybe China.
    whats that? you want into our country, no chance, wait... you hate americia? come on in.. we just gotta screne YA for bird flu and the like! no.. its just a normal flu jab... *thud* "air france, charging 2 euros for an airmail stamp to america... Tu Est stupide, combien de britian?!

    We are retiring from NATO as well. Bon chance, mes Amis.
    mr. preisident, world war 2 is over, and so is the cold war, technally .. if we just isolate ourselfs from europe, they won't need a nato!
    It is time for America to focus on its own welfare and its own citizens.
    Couldn't agree more! everyone.. for your own good!!! move to ireland! (or back to ireland as the case may be!)



    lol


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  4. #3  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    Mathwiz8390.........

    Many countries today don't have the abilities to send troops over to help. Many other countries just can't afford the expenses that it takes to send thousands of troops over to help. So how are you going to tell the differences as to who to give our aid to and who not to help? There are also countries that have no troops at all to send.

    That being said I don't think we should have gone into Iraq in the first place. The American people were lied to about weapons of mass destruction being made by Saddam Hussien but none have ever been found. That's a very bad thing to do, lie, for many times Presidents could be impeached for lying to his citizens about something like this war and why it started.
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  5. #4  
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    Mathwiz,
    I believe the rules of the forum limit (rightly) my ability to respond to your short sighted, isolationist, self righteous, ill-informed, uneducated, poorly researched, arrogant, self centred, ignorant, historically myopic, presumptuous, insidious, invidious, cretinous, ill conceived, egotisitcal, impractical, abhorrent post.
    Therefore, in answer to your question
    "WOULDN'T THIS BE AN AWESOME PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH?"
    I'll just say - No.
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  6. #5  
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    While I do not agree with many of the things you have stated in your “President’s Speech,” as an American I can share your frustration. It does seem there are many who do hold anti-American sentiment. It is my observation the countries who yell the loudest against the U.S. are generally the countries who’s citizens have lesser or no human rights.

    If you really consider the terrorists, their anger is misdirected. They live in countries where their governments do very little for the people in those countries. There is a lot of money, but it does not improve the quality of life for the people. It stays with the rulers. The people do not see it. There is very little funding invested in education or health care. In addition, there is very little money placed into improving the poverty level of the people living in these countries. Just enough is done to keep the money rolling in to the rulers, but still not give the people any relief or a chance for a better life.

    It would seem like instead of blowing their selves up and killing innocent people, the terrorists would be home with their families where they are needed trying to implement the appropriate changes within their own countries. This would be where they would do the most good, peacefully changing the face of their countries for the better. Economic advancements would be a very good place to start.

    Perhaps some of the frustration we feel as U.S. Citizens would be very well directed if it were applied to human rights issues. It is never good for a citizen in any country to not have human rights. This alone is enough to warrant some serious consideration and action. In many instances, situations arise in countries who’s people have little or no human rights where a crisis the people experience due to a lack of basic human rights spill over into the rest of the world. If the U.S. were to stop assisting the people in these countries, it would truly be tragic.
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  7. #6  
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    CyndiLoo, nice to see you back. Mathwiz's post contains many of the attitudes that have led to the anti-Americanism that seems so prevalent globally. I doubt if anyone can be truly objective on this issue, so I'll state my credentials before expressing my opinion.
    I am a UK citizen, but I have worked for American companies for most of my adult life. Most of my bosses have been American. I lived in the US for almost three years. I visit for about two or three weeks every year. Warning: cliche approaching. Some of my best friends are American.
    At one time, when an Arab gave a gift it was considered bad manners to acknowledge it. That devalued the gift and insulted the gift giver, since it implied he was looking for the reward of thanks. In other words, looking for thanks, for the gift of aid or any form of generosity is really saying: I'm giving you this now you had better be grateful, or I shan't give you it. That seems to be Mathwiz's take on aid.
    He seems offended that the bulk of the world did not join in support for the invasion of Iraq. "If you are not with us then you are against us." Right there Bush placed me, against my will, in the Anti-American camp. I opposed the war in Iraq for a plethora of reasons, most of which have been borne out by subsequent events.
    What is more likely to get someone on your side: discussing the issues calmly and moving towards a consensus, or taking uni-lateral action. [Excuse the crudity, but Blair had his head buried so far up Bush's ass he appeared to be part of his intestinal architecture, and he most certainly did not speak for the British people in the matter.]
    You might remark that my post to Mathwiz is unlikely to get him to move towards a more moderate consensus, and that I am adopting the same self righteous stance as Bush. To which I would reply, I have no hope of persuading Mathwiz he is wrong, and I am not the leader of a leading free world nation.
    There is a huge potential reservoir of goodwill towards the US around the world. The taps to it will remain firmly closed until the US government stops acting like a bully and begins to act like a responsible world citizen.
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  8. #7  
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    Thanks Ophiolate. There were some personal issues I had to work through, but I think they are now in the correct perspective.

    On September 11, 2001 the United States of America was the target of an act of war by Islamic extremists. This is why we are at war. America did not start this war. My thought is much of the anti-American sentiment seems to omit this fact.

    It is my understanding at the time we invaded Iraq, there was evidence Iraq was involved in this terrorism. Since this invation, there has been much debate back and forth with evidence for both sides as to whether Iraq was involved in terrorism on the U.S. or about to become involved in terrorist activities.

    My sincere hope is the Iraqi people will be able to put into place a strong democratic government with at the very least basic human rights. If you consider oil is about to run out or become obsolite, it makes sense to try to implement some of these changes while there may still be hope of using some of the oil money to do something for the people in the region.

    Isn't that the current goal? It has experienced some drawback with world wide corruption, but this corruption has been exposed and hopefully stopped. This seems like Iraq's best hope for a strong future. If they can use this money to educate the citizens so the nation can compete in other areas besides oil, this would secure their future.

    While I would not advocate invading countries without just reason (such as war), if democracy is established in Iraq, then perhaps the war would have served a strong and right purpose.
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  9. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by CyndiLoo
    On September 11, 2001 the United States of America was the target of an act of war by Islamic extremists. This is why we are at war. America did not start this war. My thought is much of the anti-American sentiment seems to omit this fact. .
    I want to address this cautiously because what I say could be misinterpreted. Let me tackle the less emotive issues first.
    There is a practical problem: you can't fight a war on terror. Indeed, calling it that, and invoking the changes (Homeland Security in the US, Identity Cards in the UK) to fight it are playing into the terrorists hands. The fact that the governments in the US and the UK are going down this route suggests either they haven't thought the problem through very well, or they are using the terrorism as a means to implement a separate agenda.
    The way to fight a war on terror is three fold:
    1) Quite, continous, properly funded intelligence operations.
    2) Removal of the underlying causes of terrorism. In this instance one of the most important is the one sided interminable support of the US for the Israeli government over decades. Invading Iraq sure didn't help, and holding prisoners in Guantanamo without due process is also doing no favours for the US in the eyes of the world.
    3) On an individual level spit in the eyes of the terrorist. When the London bombings occured this summer I was in Moscow. I tried to alter my return flight so I could come via London and go into Central London with the express purpose of riding the Underground. On my last trip to Jakarta I stayed at the Marriot Hotel, that had been the target of the fatal bombing a few months before. I am presently considering a holiday in Bali. You see my point.

    Any right thinking person deplores the loss of over three thousand lives in the Twin Towers attack. But what the non-American thinks is: So why I aren't they bothered about the thousands who are killed by guns in the US every year. Why aren't they bothered about the thousands who die in Africa every day from poverty. Why aren't they bothered about the 120,000 that have died in Algeria in the last fifteen years. Why aren't they bothered about the 7000 Chinese coal miners who die every year because of unsafe working practices.
    Now I know each of these is different as to cause, but they still represent preventable deaths. The US appears to take very little interest in these, yet when a single event produces a small (on a global scale) number of casualties on home soil, all hell breaks loose.
    Again, Cyndi, I am reluctant to even make these points as they could be upsetting and offensive to some, but I am trying to convey some of the background on why there is so much global anti-americanism at present.

    Ophiolite
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    Ophiolite: "But what the non-American thinks is: So why I aren't they bothered about the thousands who are killed by guns in the US every year. Why aren't they bothered about the thousands who die in Africa every day from poverty. Why aren't they bothered about the 120,000 that have died in Algeria in the last fifteen years. Why aren't they bothered about the 7000 Chinese coal miners who die every year because of unsafe working practices."

    First Ophiolite, let me just say ANYONE who is so misguided as to think the U.S. does not care about these things certainly does not have a clue as the United States of America gives serious credible consideration to each of these issues and does respond appropriately.

    Second, The U.S.A. in fact, IS fighting a war with terrorists. We have been very successful in freeing Afghanistan from Islamic fundamentalists, and are beginning to make progress in Iraq.

    Third, Israel just handed over the Gaza strip to Palestinines who turned right around and began ATTACKING Israel from the very piece of land that was suppose to bring peace. Excuse me, how is it the Palestinines should have my sympathy? They do not abide by any of the agreements the U.S. or any nation have brokered for peace between the two nations.

    Fourth, how do you know we have not infiltrated terrorist positions with covert operations? It seems over the past few weeks many terrorist leaders have been located.

    I applaud LOUDLY British tenaciousness in the face of terrorism. It is one of the many attributes about the British people I truly admire. It is my hope I have not offended you, Ophiolite, but it does seem someone needed to address the issues you have brought forward in your post.

    Cyndi
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  11. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by CyndiLoo
    It is my hope I have not offended you, Ophiolite, but it does seem someone needed to address the issues you have brought forward in your post.
    No, Cyndi, you have not offended me, but you have confirmed my fear that my attempt to explain why there is global distaste for America today would be misunderstood; that it would generate an emotional reaction. I shall withdraw from this now as I have no wish to generate more of the same. I know you are sincere in what you say, but I believe you to be misled by your own government. One should judge by actions, not words, and the actions of the current US administration do not confirm that concern. I have no doubts that many millions of Americans share those concerns and a substantial proportion of them, directly or indirectly, are acting to correct them. Not so your current administration.
    With respect, Ophiolite.
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  12. #11  
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    As an American I believe we were lied to, deceived, cheated, etc. I have a nephew that will soon be headed over to Iraq to fight a pointless war. The war that has made the world a more dangerous place then it once was. Going in to Afghanistan I agreed with, Iraq no. Bush is a total idiot and I don't really care who knows my views on this. The true patriots in the country know when to fight a war at all costs and when war is not needed. In this case it was not needed at all. So if any foreign country dislikes the US at this moment, I think they have a justified reason. I support the US troops with everything I however totally distrust the current administration and the direction the country is headed. We have spent so much money on fighting a needless war that we have no money left to do much of anything else. Osama in one of his video tapes said he would bankrupt the US. So far he's doing a very good job at it. Bush is just too stupid to realize it.

    The US has so many problems right now it's not even funny. If you walk over the border you can get all the aid you need to keep you safe and healthy. If however you were born here that quality of aide goes way down. Give to the illegals and starve the homeless citizens. The terrorists need not worry about destroying the country, the administration is doing a fine job at that.

    No I'm not just some left wing nut ball who worships Michael More. Screw that. I just know a mistake when I see one.



    Edit:

    This speech at the start of this thread by the way is messed up, I don't agree with it at all. Lots of whining and no action or positive notes. No solutions. Don't blame the world, blame the government.
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    Third, Israel just handed over the Gaza strip to Palestinines who turned right around and began ATTACKING Israel from the very piece of land that was suppose to bring peace. Excuse me, how is it the Palestinines should have my sympathy? They do not abide by any of the agreements the U.S. or any nation have brokered for peace between the two nations.
    Those two countries deserve each other. They are both very much guilty of doing many bad things. The Palestinians believe the Israels have no right to be on the land, and in fact they are correct. The land was taken and given to the Israeli's. Most of the citizens of these countries are bitter hateful people. They have been fighting with each other for so long now they can't break out of that mode. They come to the US and are about as nasty as they can be. One side just needs to kill the other off and be done with it. It's just one big pocket of hate. Give them each a fixed destination Nuke and see who presses the button first

    People are suppose to die, get over it. We have a self destruct timer built in. With any luck the stupid people will die first.
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  14. #13  
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    (In)Sanity, it is because I know that your thoughts reflect those of many Americans that I am confident that at some point in the future sanity will be restored and America can adopt a leadership position in the world that is welcomed not decried.
    Thank you.
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    Ophiolite: The response I provided to your post is not an emotional response. It is truth.

    (I)S: My family currently has three members engaged in this war, with a fourth member about to sign up. I personally was not in Manhattan on September 11th, but I was there September 12, 13, and 14th. The images will never leave me. They are the reason why I support human rights in all countries, including and especially third world. If this war can accomplish a better future for the people in Afghanistan and in Iraq, then my family and all families in our military and the people living in the midst of this horribleness will have accomplished a very great thing.

    While I am respectful of both of your thoughts in the posts you have left, I do not share most of your views.
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  16. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    (In)Sanity, it is because I know that your thoughts reflect those of many Americans that I am confident that at some point in the future sanity will be restored and America can adopt a leadership position in the world that is welcomed not decried.
    Thank you.
    Yes, not all Americans believe in what's going on right now. Not all of those who don't believe in it are soft liberals who just love hugging trees. I'm all for war when war is just. In this case I just don't think it is. Religion had a lot to do with why Bush is in office, it's so sad but very true. People are brainwashed, trying to argue with them is pointless. They can't see what's going on at all. The US is headed downhill at an increasing rate. I can only hope we can make it past Bush and in to another better administration. If Bush's brother runs for office and wins...I'm moving. Who wants to live in the flushing toilet.
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  17. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by CyndiLoo
    Ophiolite: The response I provided to your post is not an emotional response. It is truth.

    (I)S: My family currently has three members engaged in this war, with a fourth member about to sign up. I personally was not in Manhattan on September 11th, but I was there September 12, 13, and 14th. The images will never leave me. They are the reason why I support human rights in all countries, including and especially third world. If this war can accomplish a better future for the people in Afghanistan and in Iraq, then my family and all families in our military and the people living in the midst of this horribleness will have accomplished a very great thing.

    While I am respectful of both of your thoughts in the posts you have left, I do not share most of your views.
    I think Afghanistan was the right move, Iraq not at all. I hate to say it, but if you loose a family member in this "war" you may think different. It's not a war on terror, there is absolutely no evidence Iraq had anything at all to do with terrorism. There were no weapons of mass destruction, and now more Iraqis are dying each day then they were under Saddam. If I felt this so called war could ever be won I might feel better about it, the bottom line is it can't. Even if the area is stabilized your going against thousands of years of constant fighting. They have always been this way. What makes the US so arrogant as to think we can change it? It's a waste of time and resources, both financial and human lives. Even if we win this war in two years everything will be torn apart again.

    Not everyone wants to be ruled by corporations and greed. Bush is a nut ball, pure and true.
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  18. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by CyndiLoo
    First Ophiolite, let me just say ANYONE who is so misguided as to think the U.S. does not care about these things certainly does not have a clue as the United States of America gives serious credible consideration to each of these issues and does respond appropriately.
    Cyndi, was the above sentence truly without emotion. "ANYONE who is so misguided." Perhaps I am misinterpreting, but these are words I would use, and a structure I would use, were I upset by a post. If you tell me I am mistaken in that interpretation I shall accept it.
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    I think we need to be careful in threads like this to not really hurt a lot of feelings. Everyone has their own convictions and beliefs that they feel are right. Someone has to be wrong (at least partially). The future and finally history will tell us who was right. In the end being an American is not about worshiping your leaders, it's about having freedom as in free thought and ideas. I don't have to agree with my country to love it, nor does anyone have to disagree to feel the same. In the end we can only hope for the best. In the mean time each person is going to have their own views and opinions. I find these views are often deep seeded and very easy to become hurtful.
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    (I)S: There is not a day that passes my family's mortality is not on my mind.....You are correct when you say these type of discussions can become hurtful.

    CyndiLoo: <---- Is a person who does not want to offend or cause pain.

    It is my deepest sincerest hope the people in Iraq and in Afghanistan do not revert back to civil fighting. It seems like these two situations are somewhat different than the situation in Israel and Palestine simply because they will have established a democracy with new leadership, perhaps without the people who stir unrest.

    Ophiolate: I capitalized ANYONE as emphasize on the way I speak. "Misguided" is truth. If you take any of the issues you posted and examine how the U.S. has responded to them, you would know anyone who makes remarks referring to the U.S. as nonresponsive to the issues you listed is misguided. My apologies Ophiolate if this was not clear.
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    It is my deepest sincerest hope the people in Iraq and in Afghanistan do not revert back to civil fighting. It seems like these two situations are somewhat different than the situation in Israel and Palestine simply because they will have established a democracy with new leadership, perhaps without the people who stir unrest.
    Yes, as would most people. The problem is the US is trying to reverse thousands of years of behavior. I just don't think it's going to work. These people have been repeating this cycle for far far longer the the US was even a thought. Long before North America was even invaded. Nope, sorry it wasn't discovered. People were living there long before. The bottom line is they have always lived this way, why would one event change it?
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    (I)S:

    Do you not think that at some point the people living in these conditions may be ready to make a change? If they had a true opportunity to better their lives and the lives of their children, wouldn't this make enough of a difference for them to commit to a change?
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  23. #22  
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    Quote Originally Posted by CyndiLoo
    (I)S:

    Do you not think that at some point the people living in these conditions may be ready to make a change? If they had a true opportunity to better their lives and the lives of their children, wouldn't this make enough of a difference for them to commit to a change?
    Well, they have had about 10 times longer the the US has existed to do so. I'm just going on statistics here.
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    It is my deepest sincerest hope the people in Iraq and in Afghanistan do not revert back to civil fighting. It seems like these two situations are somewhat different than the situation in Israel and Palestine simply because they will have established a democracy with new leadership, perhaps without the people who stir unrest.

    You should learn something from Mid East history lessons to learn that these groups have been fighting with one another for centuries! There's always been conflicts between the different sects and the strongest and most feared usually win out for awhile until another group comes along and overpowers them. The problem today is that there's oil involved and many countries are helping one or another sects take charge by giving them the best guns and missles money can buy thereby commiting genocide amongst the weaker of the sects. This brings about no one left to fight for many sects are utterly decimated.
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    Thank you both for taking the time to share these things with me. It certainly has given me something to think about. Still I cannot help but hope this time it will be different and the people in these countries will come together and live in peace.
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  26. #25 on israel 
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    one thing

    many people seem to forget israeli history

    they were hunted down

    spread the world over

    then the british made the new nation

    THEN

    arabic countries attacked israel from almost every side

    in the subsequent war(s), (depends on how u look at it..), israel captured the gaza strip and other lands

    now, israel gives up the strip and other lands in the name of peace

    who do you think is in the right here?

    palestine is a country of warmongering extremists

    Islam is a very peaceful religion

    extremists fuel the suicide bombers and terror attacks on israel

    I SUPPORT USA SUPPORT OF ISRAEL 100%

    israel is the one who deserves the help, not palestine

    what has palestine as a country done to deserve help?

    for that matter, why do the countries surrounding israel continue to quote unquote "piss on" the palestinians?

    my personal answer is to force their aggressive attitude against israel

    in a predominantly arabic/islamic land, there is a jewish state, they wont let this stand, especially in an area of such importance

    this is not to say that they are all directly responsible

    but they don't help stop it

    how hard would it have been at the forming of israel for the countries around it to accept the palestinians?

    but no, they want them to take israel out

    israel may come off a militaristic, but they are out of necessity, palestine is militaristic out of manipulation and the other islamic states are the ones really responsible

    whoever is so naive to think that it is not so doesn't have half a brain.
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  27. #26  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    Mathwiz8390......


    After the 2nd World War the allies gave the Israelies a country where there really weren't many Arabs at the time. The Arab community didn't complain back then. I really didn't think it was a good idea to put them there. I would have relocated them to New York to resettle them there instead. The problem came when more and more Arabs moved into the areas that the Jewish settlers were building and developing.

    When there were a great deal of Arabs located there then problems started to occur and finally a war broke out. The Israelies were paying the Arabs to do alot of the work for them and with over 7 billion dollars a year in American aid they could afford to have it that way. The Arabs grew very tired of being underpaid and would never get raises as they wanted so discontenrment grew until the war happened.
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  28. #27  
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    You also have to consider that the land was traditionally Arab land, just because the British happen to have control of it at that time doesn't make it any less Arab land. They really should have been in a better location. Someone did the Jewish people a disservice. Now both sides are just bitter about pretty much everything. The Jewish people are about the most defensive on the planet, and rightfully so.

    Edit: Damn they sure do know how to make a sandwich.
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  29. #28  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    That's true about the land being Arab to begin with however that strip of land was delegated to the Jews with the Arabs knowledge back then. It was only a problem when more Arabs were relocating there to work. Seems they should have relocated them somewhere else that wasn't going to erupt into this much violence. It is also strange that the Arabs that gave away that land weren't anywhere to be found when the shit hit the fan back in the early 60's.
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  30. #29  
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    the whole "shit hit the fan"

    was over the land that israel had

    it goes back to the age old maxim

    "you only want what you can't have"

    the arabs didn't want it until the jews had it

    and it is a holy conflict

    islam is a peaceful religion but it is open to many interpretations, as we can see from the way the middle east has been for a while
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  31. #30 as to the land itself 
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    the land belonged to no one traditionally

    the "holy land" is one of the most transient pieces of property on the globe

    ever heard of the crusades?

    anyway, i do agree that the arabs have lived there by far the longest..

    but many religions claim the "holy land"

    in fact, there was once a jewish, christian and islamic section in juruselam i believe, sorry if i spelled it wrong, damn public education, and i am considered above average....
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  32. #31  
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    and about the arabs living in israel, and that being the source of the conflict, or atleast a contributing factor


    does this make it right?

    israel needs our help

    it is the only jewish state in the world

    surrounded by its religious enemies

    do u not think it needs help?


    anyway


    i know that the US got texas because of basically the same thing, but just moving your people somewhere and thinking that gives you dominion isn't right.

    how would u like it if a tenth of NYC moved to another country and claimed it as their own and pledged themselves to the US?

    the country would fight back right?

    and the world would support them right?

    what is different about the middle east and israel?
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  33. #32  
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    The Jews were gaurunteed a homeland under the terms of the Balfour Treaty back in 1918 or 1919. The fact that British, who were administering this part of the world at this time promised much the same to the Palestinians is part of the problem.
    Your President makes much of his war on terror. The Israelis followed standard terrorist practices in the years running up to independence. Bombings, assassinations, etc.
    There is enough evil on both sides to go round.
    If you choose to support a blatantly oppressive regime, regardless of the shade of its opponent, then you have to accept the consequences. A more even handed approach by the US ove the years and the Middle East problem would be orders of magnitude less than it is. There would be no need for a war on terror. Islamic fundamentalism would be a phrase used only by scholars.
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  34. #33  
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    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9659209/

    Here is a link announcing one Sunni group opposed to the new Iraqi constitution has dropped opposition against the constitution. Perhaps there is hope for Iraq to live in peace.....

    Cyndi
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  35. #34  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CyndiLoo
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9659209/

    Here is a link announcing one Sunni group opposed to the new Iraqi constitution has dropped opposition against the constitution. Perhaps there is hope for Iraq to live in peace.....

    Cyndi
    Whenever American troops leave Iraq there's going to be many problems. I don't know if the media will stay there and cover what happens when America leaves but if they do you will see more violence than there is there now. I'm not trying to be negative, I'm only being realistic.
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