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Thread: Cop27

  1. #1 Cop27 
    Forum Ph.D. Double Helix's Avatar
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    It seems almost like yesterday that COP26 had gotten together. We all know the great things which came out of that, and how things are getting so much better from all the agreements to reduce GH emissions. Can we expect the same from COP27, and get even better results? Or have I been reading fake news, and the whole thing is simply a place to have a nice time and party with the rich and powerful? Seems like things are not really getting better, but perhaps all the great plans these meetings make will eventually come to fruition (or not).

    One story that has come out of this was all the private jets which flew into COP27*. Never realized these aircraft caused so much pollution. It seems rather unlikely that all the people who came in on these things are serious about making real changes to reduce emissions. They might have taken commercial flights, or surface transportation, to demonstrate their support for COP27s goals, but many don't seem to care. Doubtless there are other aspects to these meetings that contradict their purpose, but this one really sticks out.


    "How many private jets were at COP27?"

    * https://www.bbc.com/news/63544995


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  3. #2  
    Time Lord
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    Posted this news article elsewhere
    Good news?

    I wonder if this emission spotter tool will be as important and powerful as the reporter in this article is saying

    "Emissions data a powerful tool in climate change fight"

    https://www.rte.ie/news/analysis-and...1335215-cop27/

    Can they no longer run and hide from the spies in the sky and the sensors on the ground?

    Is it a duck shoot now?


    Last edited by geordief; November 9th, 2022 at 09:32 PM.
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  4. #3  
    ox
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    No Greta this year.
    Perhaps she knows it's all a junket and nobody is serious about doing anything much about climate change.
    A wind farm here and a solar farm there will be promised I feel sure.
    The place where climate change is most is Svalbard, but even they are not going to stop their coal mining.

    The only solution is not to grow the economy but to shrink it.
    All petrol and diesel cars off the road unless absolutely essential and no more flying.
    Get back to a pre-industrial age.
    Strangely, people would be happier.

    If the elephant in the room is global population at 4 times sustainable level, then perhaps we need either a mass cull of elephants or humans.
    (Just my little joke).
    One thing I'm certain is we do need to regrow our rain forests. Congo Basin trees are now being replaced by palm oil plantations.
    Britain was once heavily forested and we cut nearly all the trees down, and never replaced them.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-58171814
    Last edited by ox; November 10th, 2022 at 08:23 AM.
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  5. #4  
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    If the elephant in the room is global population at 4 times sustainable level..........
    Doubtless a great cause for what ails us. And as often the case, Mother Nature will ultimately deal with this, short of the second coming. It is a good bet she will not be kind to these human intransigents, however they are involved.

    Regarding the COP27, there is an effort afoot to force the corporations most responsible for the GH emissions to document their results rather than accept their goals as solid commitments, which has obviously not been working.

    Of course this is an area known as green-washing. Probably why so many executives from all of those corporations are attending now, more than ever before. They need to control things as much as possible to maintain record profits. Check these two links out and what they tell us :


    "COP27: Sharp rise in fossil fuel industry delegates at climate summit"

    * https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-63571610



    "COP27: BP chief listed as delegate for Mauritania"

    * https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-63584993
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  6. #5  
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    Making it about the emissions from holding the conference is distraction from the 10's of billions of tons of CO2 the negotiations are about reducing. They make the carbon footprint from the air travel to and from look almost inconsequential. And most of the harshest criticisms are from self appointed hypocrisy police who will not be satisfied no matter what, because NOT fixing the climate problem is their aim and they will just move on to other criticisms - speaking of hypocrisy. The solution to air travel emissions is low emissions aircraft, not forgoing air travel and nations making it hard for themselves to have face to face input at COP27 for the sake of pleasing such critics would be pointless gesturing. Even a slightly more ambitious outcome achieved by attending would dwarf the emissions "savings" from such gestures.

    Low emissions planes are something getting attention and will get a lot more should the agreements nations make about it make it clear that NOT developing them is no longer optional. When we have them, then we should require and expect attendees to COP conferences to use them.

    As for not much to show for efforts so far - that governments can even say they commit to zero emissions is a profound leap forward. After 3 decades of persistent mainstream political efforts to NOT fix the climate problem and minimise their nation's efforts it is astonishing how much has been achieved; solar and wind is being built at rates that exceed all other kinds of electricity generation combined. The rate it is being added exceeds previous growth of any other electricity and new solar farms produce the lowest cost electricity ever achieved. It is a profound change, but it really has only occurred within the past decade - and the naysayers were (and still are) denying how far it has come. Renewable energy denial is what climate science deniers do now that science denial isn't resonating.

    Nations that were effectively near 100% reliant on fossil fuel electricity like Australia have stopped adding any more (but for a single small gas plant by decree of a pro fossil fuels previous government). All new generation to support new demand as well as replace retiring coal plants is now renewables or renewable supporting.

    A significant economic tipping point has been crossed - but not that long ago. Expecting that to flow through as emissions reductions over time is reasonable; expecting the problem to be solved already is not.
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  7. #6  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Fabos View Post
    Making it about the emissions from holding the conference is distraction from the 10's of billions of tons of CO2 the negotiations are about reducing. They make the carbon footprint from the air travel to and from look almost inconsequential. And most of the harshest criticisms are from self appointed hypocrisy police who will not be satisfied no matter what, because NOT fixing the climate problem is their aim and they will just move on to other criticisms - speaking of hypocrisy. The solution to air travel emissions is low emissions aircraft, not forgoing air travel and nations making it hard for themselves to have face to face input at COP27 for the sake of pleasing such critics would be pointless gesturing. Even a slightly more ambitious outcome achieved by attending would dwarf the emissions "savings" from such gestures.

    Low emissions planes are something getting attention and will get a lot more should the agreements nations make about it make it clear that NOT developing them is no longer optional. When we have them, then we should require and expect attendees to COP conferences to use them.

    As for not much to show for efforts so far - that governments can even say they commit to zero emissions is a profound leap forward. After 3 decades of persistent mainstream political efforts to NOT fix the climate problem and minimise their nation's efforts it is astonishing how much has been achieved; solar and wind is being built at rates that exceed all other kinds of electricity generation combined. The rate it is being added exceeds previous growth of any other electricity and new solar farms produce the lowest cost electricity ever achieved. It is a profound change, but it really has only occurred within the past decade - and the naysayers were (and still are) denying how far it has come. Renewable energy denial is what climate science deniers do now that science denial isn't resonating.

    Nations that were effectively near 100% reliant on fossil fuel electricity like Australia have stopped adding any more (but for a single small gas plant by decree of a pro fossil fuels previous government). All new generation to support new demand as well as replace retiring coal plants is now renewables or renewable supporting.

    A significant economic tipping point has been crossed - but not that long ago. Expecting that to flow through as emissions reductions over time is reasonable; expecting the problem to be solved already is not.
    Some very good points. Australia certainly is in the lead on a lot of things needed to be done. But they also have the advantages of a small population, and many people who believe that something can be done. Maybe less fake news Down Under. "Expecting the problem to be solved already" is certainly not reasonable, but many do not see sufficient progress. Hope you are right about the economic tipping point. We do need the time to get this right, but it seems the battle is one against time over everything else. Of course it is only time that will tell if we can get things right soon enough.
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