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Thread: Genetically Modified Crops

  1. #1 Genetically Modified Crops 
    Moderator Moderator Markus Hanke's Avatar
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    This is not at all my area of expertise, so I am genuinely curious :

    1. Exactly what kind of modifications are actually undertaken in GM crops ?
    2. Are the consequences of these specific modifications sufficiently understood to rule out adverse health effects, if such crops are processed and consumed by humans ?
    3. Does any empirical data exist which would indicate that GM food has any impact on the human body after consumption, that "natural" foods wouldn't have ? If so, what are those impacts ? Is this data peer reviewed and independently verified ?

    Just to be very clear - I am not looking for your personal/political/ideological/religious opinions on GM crops, nor do I want to start a discussion on their merits or lack thereof; what I am looking for is simply the actual science and empirical data behind this whole question. I am personally quite neutral and pretty ignorant on the subject matter, so I would like to get a better insight into the science here to form my own opinion.


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    1.There is a massive array of GM in plants and in bacteria, so there isnt one think all GMO are doing. Class just covered examples of glyphostate resistant maize, rabbit genes in Poplar trees for toxic site cleanup, and hep-b gene coat structure coding in a yeast species to create a virus free vaccine.

    2.As it stands now, I dont think there have actually been any heath risks found associated with addition of genes from one plant to another. There is a smaller amount of justified worries and a very large amount of uneducated hysteria over OMG What IF... scenarios.

    3. First you have to define if you are speaking of chemical compounds in the GMO product (as you have to already do with "natural" species since allergies are allergies) or if you are talking about magical GMO DNA segments that avoid the nucleases' in the intestine, plow there way across the cell membrane despite the huge molecule size and then implant them selves into a cell in such a way that the cells DNA will replace all the bodies DNA with the corrupted strand version.


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    don't forget transgenics
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    On GM food.
    In the 20 odd years that people have been eating GM food, literally billions of people have eaten one or other variety. Despite that, there is a not a single case where good science showed harm to a person is due to the fact that the food was GM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    1.There is a massive array of GM in plants and in bacteria
    Ok, noted.

    There is a smaller amount of justified worries
    Such as ?

    and a very large amount of uneducated hysteria over OMG What IF... scenarios.
    Yes, that's for sure.

    magical GMO DNA segments that avoid the nucleases' in the intestine, plow there way across the cell membrane despite the huge molecule size and then implant them selves into a cell in such a way that the cells DNA will replace all the bodies DNA with the corrupted strand version.
    In the 20 odd years that people have been eating GM food, literally billions of people have eaten one or other variety. Despite that, there is a not a single case where good science showed harm to a person is due to the fact that the food was GM.
    So the answer would appear to be no - there is no empirical evidence to suggest that GM food is directly harmful to the human body on consumption. That is what I thought. Of course there are other factors at play here ( environmental, economical etc ), but my original question has been answered.

    Thank you all.
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    Forum Radioactive Isotope Paleoichneum's Avatar
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    Valid concerns on GMOs are the additions of glyphosate resistance genes into crops such as canola and beets, etc. These and other highly used crops are known to easily cross-pollinate with wild relatives living near crop fields. If cross-pollination occurs between a glyp-resistant GMO and weedy relative, the resultant weed is has the probability of inheriting the resistance and becoming highly noxious as a result.
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    If cross-pollination occurs between a glyp-resistant GMO and weedy relative, the resultant weed is has the probability of inheriting the resistance and becoming highly noxious as a result.
    Noted, and the argument makes sense.
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    It is also true that glyphosate resistance has arisen in weeds species literally hundreds of times, and rarely, if ever, is it due to cross fertilisation with GM species. The usual mechanism is simply evolution, in which resistance develops. In those cases, other, and more toxic herbicides are used to wipe out the glyphosate resistant weed species.
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    I do not believe this is a case where you can separate the politics from the science.
    The mere fact that GMO products involve intellectual property copyrights makes the attempt impossible and it becomes an arena for lawyers more than scientists.
    Last edited by dan hunter; May 5th, 2014 at 04:43 PM. Reason: spelling
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  11. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan hunter View Post
    I do not believe this is a case where you can separate the politics from the science.
    The mere fact that GMO products involve intellectual property copyrights makes the attempt impossible and it becomes an arena for lawyers more than scientists.
    Perhaps so, but I didn't ask about the politics - I was merely curious about any possible health effects.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markus Hanke View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dan hunter View Post
    I do not believe this is a case where you can separate the politics from the science.
    The mere fact that GMO products involve intellectual property copyrights makes the attempt impossible and it becomes an arena for lawyers more than scientists.
    Perhaps so, but I didn't ask about the politics - I was merely curious about any possible health effects.
    There might be some issues with allergies, but I have not read anything conclusive.
    I am giving a link to this article about Brazilnut allergens being tranferred to soybean. (J. Ordlee, et al, “Identification of a Brazil-Nut Allergen in Transgenic Soybeans,” The New England Journal of Medicine, March 14, 1996.)
    http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199603143341103
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    The methionine was not recognized as a human allergen until after trials to purposely add and enhance the gene into soy.

    http://jxb.oxfordjournals.org/content/54/386/1317.full

    As noted in this article the trials were abandoned after the 1996 paper was published. Also noted, there have not been any identified accidental or purposeful transfers of allergens between crop species as of 2003
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

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    There are almost thousands of studies that have been done on GMO's and, as this thread already has shown, they have been proven to not be harmful as many anti-GMO claims have stated. Here is a list of over 1700 different studies done on GMO's, the researchers who did them, and many of them have direct links (otherwise you will have to go find them on sites like JSTOR or EBSCOHOST: http://www.geneticliteracyproject.or...pub-list-1.xls
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    So, what are these pictures supposed to mean? Are you one of those GMO conspiracy theorists?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReligionOfTheSemites View Post
    So, what are these pictures supposed to mean? Are you one of those GMO conspiracy theorists?
    Nope. I am not. I see binary language, 0's and 1's that align to form pattern, sequence, value. In the 0 is space for any value, and 1, or any sequence of programmed reactions.

    I see that there is a lot of potential profit to be made, and enhancements thorugh genetic engineering, one of my fields of study actually. Being a quantum chemist myself, studying nanomeds, genetics etc.

    I once made an apple with a picture on it that was 'set' to depict the contents of my mind my selected imagery, or intent. I created a picture on the apple of a man holding an apple in his hands, having wings on his back, and a light traveling from his head to the apple. Quite cool.
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    Clearly there is much profit to be made off of feeding the world, but what is your point exactly? Why post anti-GMO conspiracy pictures?
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    I just see pictures, that reflect GMO as images. I see nothing about anti-gmo in them at all actually. I see knowledge. I do not see anything negative in them at all. Just reflections.

    Why does a piece of corn with the words GMO on it reflect anti-gmo to you? Why does corn with money on it reflect negative to you? As well as injections into corn? Or binary encoding? Its a reflection of the process and techniques as I see it.

    It seems like this forum is so full of negativity!! It''s astounding to me. wow. You can't do one single thing here without being challenged, or attacked, insulted etc. Not that you are attacking me, but it seems every move is a problem for someone here.
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    [QUOTE=serloco;587968Why does corn with money on it reflect negative to you? As well as injections into corn? [/QUOTE]

    It implies that corn is "full of drugs" when in fact that has nothing to do with the issue. It is an emotional and misleading picture, like posting a picture of a child in a hospital bed clutching a half-eaten corncob. (Although perhaps that was not your intent in posting it; you might have just thought it was a cool picture or something.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by serloco View Post
    Why does corn with money on it reflect negative to you? As well as injections into corn?
    It implies that corn is "full of drugs" when in fact that has nothing to do with the issue. It is an emotional and misleading picture, like posting a picture of a child in a hospital bed clutching a half-eaten corncob. (Although perhaps that was not your intent in posting it; you might have just thought it was a cool picture or something.)
    Duh, ahhhh yeah man, cool. far out.. thats a trip..

    rolls eyes..

    well see when you modify genetics, insert different formulas, activate different reactions in the corn, I think the image accurately portrays that act of 'injecting other formulas into the corn itself'. just as I think the binary imagery portrays the knowledge of programming, or repatterning the genes in the corn. Not to mention that on this level it is also easy to create medicinal reactions within foods, forming specific bonds. if you think something is wrong with this practice then so be it. I however do not.

    mix-masters beware there are apparently many dark clouds among us here!!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by serloco View Post
    I just see pictures, that reflect GMO as images. I see nothing about anti-gmo in them at all actually.

    See it any way you want, but those are literally pictures spread by anti-GMO conspiracy theorists.
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    Another pretty corn picture. They say it makes rats fatter and makes them eat more. The brilliant scientists who 'study' the reason why make up some weird hypothetical reason as to why. Meanwhile the genetically modified corn has been produced to make you eat more of it, and buy more of it, spend more money on it. Hmm let me see.. they engineered the corn right, altered it, and it makes you eat more right? hmm now why would one want to do this??? $$$$$$ Just my hypothesis.

    By the way some of protests against GMO is rightly so. They are arguing about some pretty good points if you ask me. I have nothing against GMO, but if your product fails, and produces bad results, you should let it go and start from scratch. Not hush it up and try to push it forward. People who want the right to know if their food is genetically engineered or not have a right to know where their food is coming from, imho. Besides they have made some bad stuff in the past. I'm not saying all the aruments are valid tho. Think before you leap.
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    I see nothing wrong with testing the corn before allowing it to be planted and eaten. I do see something wrong with a bill that denies courts the right to halt the product if it is found to be hazardous. Duh! Conspiracy theorists?? I see good reasoning and the right to safe-guard society from greed over safety, health and testing. After all you guys want the proof of everything before hand right?

    I'm not saying that the food is bad tho, or that i believe that it is hazardous, even if they provide proof. But that is just me, and not everyone else.
    Last edited by serloco; August 24th, 2014 at 02:38 AM.
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    This pic i just love! Made me laugh.
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    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by serloco View Post
    Why does corn with money on it reflect negative to you? As well as injections into corn?
    It is an emotional and misleading picture, like posting a picture of a child in a hospital bed clutching a half-eaten corncob.
    Not for me. I have no fear of medicines, no mistrust, nor fear of creating different formula's and 'injecting' them into corn. I think creating medicinal foods is worthy pursuit too. Corn on the cob to boost your immune system, vacinate you against disease? For me it shows a process, depicting knowledge.
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    Serloco, you may feel these are pretty pictures, but they are not only blatantly misleading scare tactics from anti-gmo lobbies, but they are wholly incorrect in what they are portraying about what a gmo even is. your re-posting of them helps no-one but anti-gmo groups.
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

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    Quote Originally Posted by serloco View Post
    well see when you modify genetics, insert different formulas, activate different reactions in the corn, I think the image accurately portrays that act of 'injecting other formulas into the corn itself'. . . . if you think something is wrong with this practice then so be it. I however do not.
    I do find the use of such misleading images unfortunate, because it results in more ignorance - and that is generally a bad thing. In general, GMO's are not a bad thing, although we do need to be careful about how we test such products.
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    Potential benefits of genetically engineered food include:

    Medicinal foods that could be used as vaccines or other medications

    https://umm.edu/health/medical/ency/...gineered-foods

    You actually expect me to think that a picture of a corn on the cob with medicine in it is a misleading scare tactic? Now who it the conspiracy theorist dude? It's not my fault an accurate picture depicting medication in food makes you scared and live feelings about it. Or picture of corn with binary encoded values in it as well. It's just a depicting a process, reflecting a knowledge that is all.

    GMOs include strawberries and tomatoes injected with fish genes.
    gmo-awareness.com/all-about-gmos/gmo-defined

    So you tell me a picture of corn with injections in it is misleading and is scary to you again?? My suggestion is to not fear the truth. And since that is what you really need here
    TRUTH, i find it astonishing that you are like the GMO people, trying despretely to silence everyone, and stop them from even being able to talk about GMO foods. THATS the conspiracy
    , the fear, and the wrong thing to do. I personally want to be educated about GMO's.











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  30. #29  
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    Quote Originally Posted by serloco View Post
    Potential benefits of genetically engineered food include:

    Medicinal foods that could be used as vaccines or other medications

    https://umm.edu/health/medical/ency/...gineered-foods

    You actually expect me to think that a picture of a corn on the cob with medicine in it is a misleading scare tactic? Now who it the conspiracy theorist dude? It's not my fault an accurate picture depicting medication in food makes you scared and live feelings about it. Or picture of corn with binary encoded values in it as well. It's just a depicting a process, reflecting a knowledge that is all.

    GMOs include strawberries and tomatoes injected with fish genes.
    gmo-awareness.com/all-about-gmos/gmo-defined

    So you tell me a picture of corn with injections in it is misleading and is scary to you again?? My suggestion is to not fear the truth. And since that is what you really need here
    TRUTH, i find it astonishing that you are like the GMO people, trying despretely to silence everyone, and stop them from even being able to talk about GMO foods. THATS the conspiracy
    , the fear, and the wrong thing to do. I personally want to be educated about GMO's.
    You clearly do not understand the mindset of the average, doctor fearing consumer, who will believe the worst in something before they will take the time to understand the actual data. I am a full supporter of GMOs but i also understand that most people will see those pictures and only see them for the scary bits.
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

    The needs of the many outweigh the need of the few - Spock of Vulcan & Sentinel Prime of Cybertron ---proof that "the needs" are in the eye of the beholder.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by serloco View Post
    Potential benefits of genetically engineered food include:

    Medicinal foods that could be used as vaccines or other medications

    https://umm.edu/health/medical/ency/...gineered-foods

    You actually expect me to think that a picture of a corn on the cob with medicine in it is a misleading scare tactic? Now who it the conspiracy theorist dude? It's not my fault an accurate picture depicting medication in food makes you scared and live feelings about it. Or picture of corn with binary encoded values in it as well. It's just a depicting a process, reflecting a knowledge that is all.

    GMOs include strawberries and tomatoes injected with fish genes.
    gmo-awareness.com/all-about-gmos/gmo-defined

    So you tell me a picture of corn with injections in it is misleading and is scary to you again?? My suggestion is to not fear the truth. And since that is what you really need here
    TRUTH, i find it astonishing that you are like the GMO people, trying despretely to silence everyone, and stop them from even being able to talk about GMO foods. THATS the conspiracy
    , the fear, and the wrong thing to do. I personally want to be educated about GMO's.
    You clearly do not understand the mindset of the average, doctor fearing consumer, who will believe the worst in something before they will take the time to understand the actual data. I am a full supporter of GMOs but i also understand that most people will see those pictures and only see them for the scary bits.
    And YOU are just like most of the other people around here, closed minded and fearful. Most people deny everything around here, that is actually intelligent and leading edge knowledge. I post my findings and get attacked for it every time. Meanwhile I prove it to them shortly after they declare their is no evidence, Yet I find it everytime for them. Even tho they insult me, just like you, and say I know nothing, just like you. You ask me to be like fearful people, dumb ignorant people, and accept their awareness and fear. Just like you do, and most here do as well. Well I don't follow you guys and i know much more then you guys do, despite all your attacks and claims and demands. THE CORN HAS MEDS IN IT, AND INJECTIONS IN IT! it's just the actual truth dude! The picute shows what is true. That is all. Yet you cry and say other people fear medication and injections so we should cover and bury the truth? Ignore the truth, the evidence the data??? But you guys want proof you say!! then when it comes your way you attack again, insult again, and cry like little babies about it and say we do not want THAT truth only our own truth. Dogma and ignorance. We want our fears adn since the truth is fearful to most peole you should not tell them about it. Fear of the unknown. get over it dude, if you are scared of the dark you will not venture and learn what is in it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by serloco View Post
    You actually expect me to think that a picture of a corn on the cob with medicine in it is a misleading scare tactic?
    Yes - the clear message is that GMO corn is full of powerful drugs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by serloco View Post
    You actually expect me to think that a picture of a corn on the cob with medicine in it is a misleading scare tactic?
    Yes - the clear message is that GMO corn is full of powerful drugs.
    Really now, and that is not a blind, ignorant, fear based assumption? Why must a pill be a powerful one? And how can you know just by looking at it that it is powerful or a dangerous pill, and not immune boosting or a vaccination? A pill is just a pill, and an injection is just an injection, they can be any form., It is YOU that blindly, and based from preconditioning and biased observation that assumes it is bad, or harmful, or powerful, through your own fears and feelings. Besides I would rather have a powerful immune injection or pill, medicine in my food, rather then a weak one. \What is wrong with that? Vitamines too are good, also pills. YOU are the one spreading the fear and panic around here in this case.

    THAT IS YOUR CLEAR MESSAGE NOT MINE.

    For me I see an image depicting a process of genetically engineering food to be medicinal, and adding injections into it, which is true and proven. The image shows me truth, and the methodology involved.

    Does the image bring to my mind what others possibly might think of it? No. I do not follow the masses into fear and panic. Sorry. I see only truth, not conditioning, not media frenzy panic of american based media scare tactics that have drawn you in. I see truth and potential. A developing and potentially amazing field of discovery.
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    Quote Originally Posted by serloco View Post
    Really now, and that is not a blind, ignorant, fear based assumption?
    No, it is a realistic assumption of how the general public will perceive GMO's.
    Why must a pill be a powerful one?
    The image we are discussing did not show a pill. The image we are discussing shows (in your words) "that act of 'injecting other formulas into the corn itself." Most drugs are available as pills; some extremely potent ones (like IV-only antibiotics) are available only in IV form. In the general public's mind, therefore, that image depicts a corn cob with dozens of very powerful drugs being injected into it.
    Does the image bring to my mind what others possibly might think of it? No. I do not follow the masses into fear and panic. Sorry. I see only truth, not conditioning, not media frenzy panic of american based media scare tactics that have drawn you in. I see truth and potential. A developing and potentially amazing field of discovery.
    I do not see fear and panic in that image either. But I can make a pretty good estimate of what the _general_public_ will see in that image. And the general public will see that image and think "oh my god what are they putting in my corn?" And their first reaction will be to oppose the science that is injecting unknown and potentially dangerous drugs into their children's corn.

    So if you want to keep the "truth and potential" in "a potentially amazing field of discovery" and not have it derailed by "the masses into fear and panic" I would suggest learning how the general public perceives things like GMO's - and perhaps not using images that cause those fearful reactions.
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    Yes they do inject things in to corn, that is a proven fact. So why should an image of injecting things into corn be shoved away?? It is truth.

    I do not judge the entire world's perceptions. Nor cater to their ignorance. i support the truth only. And if people what to find out what pills, or injections are in their food, they should seek the truth don't you think, and not blindly make fear-full assumptions and panic? However GMO companies seek to keep the truth hidden and prevent people from even discussing and learning about GMO's which IS a cause for panic and conspiracy formulations and assumptions.

    And you said the images, PLURAL, were misleading, and did not refer to any individual image in your original posting, which you now say is not what you referred or spoke of, but merely one of them being the injection picture. Changing your story. Yet again the image of injecting into corn is depiction of what they actually do, fearful to you or not. This fact should not be ignored just because you fear it. If you want to assume that something bad is in the injection without knowing for yourself, that is your ignorant decision to make. The world should not cater the blindness, fear, ignorant assuptions, but should cater to intelligence and truth.

    "I do not see fear or panic in the images either" Yes you do, you see it in everyone else, and say it shows powerful drugs, when you have no way to verify what it is within it. There any many forms of injections and not all are powerful or harmful in any way, despite your claim that it shows only powerful drugs. Again this is just ignorant and bind fear based assumptions, whereas you should seek only truth. You say it leads to fear and panic, and so yes you do see fear and panic in the images.

    You ignorantly claim that most people will think and see the image as a powerful IV antibiotic now. Whereas nearly any medication can be formed into an IV, injection, and is. Do not most people think that medication helps you, and cures you, keeps you healthy and is deisnged to removed disease? That is a worthy assessment of how medicine is and should be perceived. And besides this blind assumption is irrelevant, you want people, myself, and the world, to cater to mistruth, ignorance, fear, and ignore and push away truth, evidence, and awareness. Your suggestion leads to ignorance, whereas mine leads to truth and understanding.
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    Quote Originally Posted by serloco View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by serloco View Post
    Potential benefits of genetically engineered food include:

    Medicinal foods that could be used as vaccines or other medications

    https://umm.edu/health/medical/ency/...gineered-foods

    You actually expect me to think that a picture of a corn on the cob with medicine in it is a misleading scare tactic? Now who it the conspiracy theorist dude? It's not my fault an accurate picture depicting medication in food makes you scared and live feelings about it. Or picture of corn with binary encoded values in it as well. It's just a depicting a process, reflecting a knowledge that is all.

    GMOs include strawberries and tomatoes injected with fish genes.
    gmo-awareness.com/all-about-gmos/gmo-defined

    So you tell me a picture of corn with injections in it is misleading and is scary to you again?? My suggestion is to not fear the truth. And since that is what you really need here
    TRUTH, i find it astonishing that you are like the GMO people, trying despretely to silence everyone, and stop them from even being able to talk about GMO foods. THATS the conspiracy
    , the fear, and the wrong thing to do. I personally want to be educated about GMO's.
    You clearly do not understand the mindset of the average, doctor fearing consumer, who will believe the worst in something before they will take the time to understand the actual data. I am a full supporter of GMOs but i also understand that most people will see those pictures and only see them for the scary bits.
    And YOU are just like most of the other people around here, closed minded and fearful. Most people deny everything around here, that is actually intelligent and leading edge knowledge. I post my findings and get attacked for it every time. Meanwhile I prove it to them shortly after they declare their is no evidence, Yet I find it everytime for them. Even tho they insult me, just like you, and say I know nothing, just like you. You ask me to be like fearful people, dumb ignorant people, and accept their awareness and fear. Just like you do, and most here do as well. Well I don't follow you guys and i know much more then you guys do, despite all your attacks and claims and demands. THE CORN HAS MEDS IN IT, AND INJECTIONS IN IT! it's just the actual truth dude! The picute shows what is true. That is all. Yet you cry and say other people fear medication and injections so we should cover and bury the truth? Ignore the truth, the evidence the data??? But you guys want proof you say!! then when it comes your way you attack again, insult again, and cry like little babies about it and say we do not want THAT truth only our own truth. Dogma and ignorance. We want our fears adn since the truth is fearful to most peole you should not tell them about it. Fear of the unknown. get over it dude, if you are scared of the dark you will not venture and learn what is in it.
    Nobody is attacking you, calm down.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mat5592 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by serloco View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by serloco View Post
    Potential benefits of genetically engineered food include:

    Medicinal foods that could be used as vaccines or other medications

    https://umm.edu/health/medical/ency/...gineered-foods

    You actually expect me to think that a picture of a corn on the cob with medicine in it is a misleading scare tactic? Now who it the conspiracy theorist dude? It's not my fault an accurate picture depicting medication in food makes you scared and live feelings about it. Or picture of corn with binary encoded values in it as well. It's just a depicting a process, reflecting a knowledge that is all.

    GMOs include strawberries and tomatoes injected with fish genes.
    gmo-awareness.com/all-about-gmos/gmo-defined

    So you tell me a picture of corn with injections in it is misleading and is scary to you again?? My suggestion is to not fear the truth. And since that is what you really need here
    TRUTH, i find it astonishing that you are like the GMO people, trying despretely to silence everyone, and stop them from even being able to talk about GMO foods. THATS the conspiracy
    , the fear, and the wrong thing to do. I personally want to be educated about GMO's.
    You clearly do not understand the mindset of the average, doctor fearing consumer, who will believe the worst in something before they will take the time to understand the actual data. I am a full supporter of GMOs but i also understand that most people will see those pictures and only see them for the scary bits.
    And YOU are just like most of the other people around here, closed minded and fearful. Most people deny everything around here, that is actually intelligent and leading edge knowledge. I post my findings and get attacked for it every time. Meanwhile I prove it to them shortly after they declare their is no evidence, Yet I find it everytime for them. Even tho they insult me, just like you, and say I know nothing, just like you. You ask me to be like fearful people, dumb ignorant people, and accept their awareness and fear. Just like you do, and most here do as well. Well I don't follow you guys and i know much more then you guys do, despite all your attacks and claims and demands. THE CORN HAS MEDS IN IT, AND INJECTIONS IN IT! it's just the actual truth dude! The picute shows what is true. That is all. Yet you cry and say other people fear medication and injections so we should cover and bury the truth? Ignore the truth, the evidence the data??? But you guys want proof you say!! then when it comes your way you attack again, insult again, and cry like little babies about it and say we do not want THAT truth only our own truth. Dogma and ignorance. We want our fears adn since the truth is fearful to most peole you should not tell them about it. Fear of the unknown. get over it dude, if you are scared of the dark you will not venture and learn what is in it.
    Nobody is attacking you, calm down.
    People are attcking me in every corner of this forum at the moment. Despite my posting of evidence that they demanded. It crazyness, i do as they say and they attack something else, like the definition of the word willful and intentional, and then when I post the actual definition of the word the attack me again and say that it is wrong.

    i did say he was not doing all of these things, and yet to say I know nothing about these things, I see as an insult, ignorance, and a form of attack yes. I am calm tho.
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    Not to mention when I said i study these fields as well as quantum chemistry and then someone comes along and says I know nothing about these things, i see also as calling me a liar. As many of you here in this forum have done to me. But that's OK the proof will come along as it always does.
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    Quote Originally Posted by serloco View Post
    Yes they do inject things in to corn, that is a proven fact. So why should an image of injecting things into corn be shoved away?? It is truth.
    You are completely missing the point here.

    Let's use an example. Imagine you are a nuclear power advocate, and you hope that nuclear power is used more widely in the future as an alternative to fossil fuels. And when talking about it on the Internet you often post graphic depictions of people being vaporized in Hiroshima, and children playing with nuclear waste containers. They might well be entirely accurate; the first image might demonstrate how great it was that nuclear power stops evil, and the second one might show how good shielding is in nuclear waste containers.

    Do you think those images would help or harm your goals?
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    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by serloco View Post
    Yes they do inject things in to corn, that is a proven fact. So why should an image of injecting things into corn be shoved away?? It is truth.
    You are completely missing the point here.

    Let's use an example. Imagine you are a nuclear power advocate, and you hope that nuclear power is used more widely in the future as an alternative to fossil fuels. And when talking about it on the Internet you often post graphic depictions of people being vaporized in Hiroshima, and children playing with nuclear waste containers. They might well be entirely accurate; the first image might demonstrate how great it was that nuclear power stops evil, and the second one might show how good shielding is in nuclear waste containers.

    Do you think those images would help or harm your goals?
    I seek the truth in the matter. The potential for fusion as well as fission is very great, with numerous possibilities. First of all creating energy for use instead of fossil fuels is one matter, but creating weapons for mass destruction is a totally different matter. They are two separate outcomes, two uses of fusion. Very different and with very different intentions. Two very different developments, and designs all together. One is designed to explode and to kill, where the other is designed to help and sustain with many safe guards in place as well. If I were worried i would see clarification of these safe guards and empirical evidence as well as laws and regulations set to safe guard and protect our society. I would listen to the leaders in this field.
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    Quote Originally Posted by serloco View Post

    I seek the truth in the matter. The potential for fusion as well as fission is very great, with numerous possibilities. First of all creating energy for use instead of fossil fuels is one matter, but creating weapons for mass destruction is a totally different matter. They are two separate outcomes, two uses of fusion. Very different and with very different intentions. Two very different developments, and designs all together. One is designed to explode and to kill, where the other is designed to help and sustain with many safe guards in place as well. If I were worried i would see clarification of these safe guards and empirical evidence as well as laws and regulations set to safe guard and protect our society. I would listen to the leaders in this field. Again I seek the truth in all things.

    That said, seeking the truth in all matter is a very good thing. Now to seek to cover this truth, and prevent people form talking about GMO, is not a good thing. Why would one seek to hide the truth, or discuss it in any way? Why would someone seek to prevent people from making an informed choice, as well as make their own decisions? I prefer freedom of choice in a free country. As well as freedom of information.
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    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    You are completely missing the point here.

    Let's use an example. Imagine you are a nuclear power advocate, and you hope that nuclear power is used more widely in the future as an alternative to fossil fuels. And when talking about it on the Internet you often post graphic depictions of people being vaporized in Hiroshima, and children playing with nuclear waste containers. They might well be entirely accurate; the first image might demonstrate how great it was that nuclear power stops evil, and the second one might show how good shielding is in nuclear waste containers.

    Do you think those images would help or harm your goals?
    You missed my point and then twisted my point entirely. I did not post pictures of people being hurt by toxic corn in any way shape or form. Nor did I post a picture implying harmful meds are in the corn, or any such harm at all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by serloco View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    You are completely missing the point here.

    Let's use an example. Imagine you are a nuclear power advocate, and you hope that nuclear power is used more widely in the future as an alternative to fossil fuels. And when talking about it on the Internet you often post graphic depictions of people being vaporized in Hiroshima, and children playing with nuclear waste containers. They might well be entirely accurate; the first image might demonstrate how great it was that nuclear power stops evil, and the second one might show how good shielding is in nuclear waste containers.

    Do you think those images would help or harm your goals?
    You missed my point and then twisted my point entirely. I did not post pictures of people being hurt by toxic corn in any way shape or form. Nor did I post a picture implying harmful meds are in the corn, or any such harm at all.
    No, you posted images created by people who are purposely making that connection with the images you use. They are not made to ally peoples fears, but to flame them. That's where the reproduction of them with no explanation of just how incorrect they are, is bad.
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

    The needs of the many outweigh the need of the few - Spock of Vulcan & Sentinel Prime of Cybertron ---proof that "the needs" are in the eye of the beholder.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by serloco View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    You are completely missing the point here.

    Let's use an example. Imagine you are a nuclear power advocate, and you hope that nuclear power is used more widely in the future as an alternative to fossil fuels. And when talking about it on the Internet you often post graphic depictions of people being vaporized in Hiroshima, and children playing with nuclear waste containers. They might well be entirely accurate; the first image might demonstrate how great it was that nuclear power stops evil, and the second one might show how good shielding is in nuclear waste containers.

    Do you think those images would help or harm your goals?
    You missed my point and then twisted my point entirely. I did not post pictures of people being hurt by toxic corn in any way shape or form. Nor did I post a picture implying harmful meds are in the corn, or any such harm at all.
    No, you posted images created by people who are purposely making that connection with the images you use. They are not made to ally peoples fears, but to flame them. That's where the reproduction of them with no explanation of just how incorrect they are, is bad.
    Again the images I posted had no anti-gmo attached to to them in any way. I see nothing at all in the images on their own that is negative or fearful in any way, shape or form. I am truly sorry the images offended you and brought to your mind these things. They are not incorrect to me either, as i stated, to me they show only truth. They re-pattern corn, they inject into corn, they program corn like a computer or binary value, they create and research medical applications into foods, they make money from the field, all truthful depictions to me. I did not add scary words to them, nor link them to anti-gmo in any way. these images came up from a search of GMO, that is all. I do not actively seek anti-gmo and their messages, I have heard some thigns tho before, and so when you brought it to my attention they anti-gmo I looked, and I found they have some valid points. I found no scary messages either about damaging medications in them, nor did I find any harmful formulas within the anti-gmo sites. I merely found some substantiated and well thought-out arguments that expressed valid concern in my eyes. These things I found I posted here already and made my comments about them.
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    Again the images I posted had no anti-gmo attached to to them in any way.
    My goodness, the bullshit is getting deep in here.
    Its the way nature is!
    If you dont like it, go somewhere else....
    To another universe, where the rules are simpler
    Philosophically more pleasing, more psychologically easy
    Prof Richard Feynman (1979) .....

    Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig, es ist nicht einmal falsch!"
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    Quote Originally Posted by serloco View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by serloco View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    You are completely missing the point here.

    Let's use an example. Imagine you are a nuclear power advocate, and you hope that nuclear power is used more widely in the future as an alternative to fossil fuels. And when talking about it on the Internet you often post graphic depictions of people being vaporized in Hiroshima, and children playing with nuclear waste containers. They might well be entirely accurate; the first image might demonstrate how great it was that nuclear power stops evil, and the second one might show how good shielding is in nuclear waste containers.

    Do you think those images would help or harm your goals?
    You missed my point and then twisted my point entirely. I did not post pictures of people being hurt by toxic corn in any way shape or form. Nor did I post a picture implying harmful meds are in the corn, or any such harm at all.
    No, you posted images created by people who are purposely making that connection with the images you use. They are not made to ally peoples fears, but to flame them. That's where the reproduction of them with no explanation of just how incorrect they are, is bad.
    Again the images I posted had no anti-gmo attached to to them in any way. I see nothing at all in the images on their own that is negative or fearful in any way, shape or form. I am truly sorry the images offended you and brought to your mind these things. They are not incorrect to me either, as i stated, to me they show only truth. They re-pattern corn, they inject into corn, they program corn like a computer or binary value, they create and research medical applications into foods, they make money from the field, all truthful depictions to me. I did not add scary words to them, nor link them to anti-gmo in any way. these images came up from a search of GMO, that is all. I do not actively seek anti-gmo and their messages, I have heard some thigns tho before, and so when you brought it to my attention they anti-gmo I looked, and I found they have some valid points. I found no scary messages either about damaging medications in them, nor did I find any harmful formulas within the anti-gmo sites. I merely found some substantiated and well thought-out arguments that expressed valid concern in my eyes. These things I found I posted here already and made my comments about them.
    Have you, at any point, looked at WHO first created the images, and where they are most often used?
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

    The needs of the many outweigh the need of the few - Spock of Vulcan & Sentinel Prime of Cybertron ---proof that "the needs" are in the eye of the beholder.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by serloco View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by serloco View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    You are completely missing the point here.

    Let's use an example. Imagine you are a nuclear power advocate, and you hope that nuclear power is used more widely in the future as an alternative to fossil fuels. And when talking about it on the Internet you often post graphic depictions of people being vaporized in Hiroshima, and children playing with nuclear waste containers. They might well be entirely accurate; the first image might demonstrate how great it was that nuclear power stops evil, and the second one might show how good shielding is in nuclear waste containers.

    Do you think those images would help or harm your goals?
    You missed my point and then twisted my point entirely. I did not post pictures of people being hurt by toxic corn in any way shape or form. Nor did I post a picture implying harmful meds are in the corn, or any such harm at all.
    No, you posted images created by people who are purposely making that connection with the images you use. They are not made to ally peoples fears, but to flame them. That's where the reproduction of them with no explanation of just how incorrect they are, is bad.
    Again the images I posted had no anti-gmo attached to to them in any way. I see nothing at all in the images on their own that is negative or fearful in any way, shape or form. I am truly sorry the images offended you and brought to your mind these things. They are not incorrect to me either, as i stated, to me they show only truth. They re-pattern corn, they inject into corn, they program corn like a computer or binary value, they create and research medical applications into foods, they make money from the field, all truthful depictions to me. I did not add scary words to them, nor link them to anti-gmo in any way. these images came up from a search of GMO, that is all. I do not actively seek anti-gmo and their messages, I have heard some thigns tho before, and so when you brought it to my attention they anti-gmo I looked, and I found they have some valid points. I found no scary messages either about damaging medications in them, nor did I find any harmful formulas within the anti-gmo sites. I merely found some substantiated and well thought-out arguments that expressed valid concern in my eyes. These things I found I posted here already and made my comments about them.
    Have you, at any point, looked at WHO first created the images, and where they are most often used?
    I'm sorry, but that is irrelevant to me. I look at picture itself, and see what it means to me, the truth is shows within it and nothing more. I am sure it can be used by anti-gmo so long as they were saying harmful meds are in the corn, but I did not find ANY data to support this. And so no. I found no scary data whatsoever in my search for it even. Happy to report. I reprted in this thread the anti-gmo data I found, and it was not scary in any way, but I found justifiable concern.
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    Quote Originally Posted by serloco View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    Have you, at any point, looked at WHO first created the images, and where they are most often used?
    I'm sorry, but that is irrelevant to me. I look at picture itself, and see what it means to me, the truth is shows within it and nothing more. I am sure it can be used by anti-gmo so long as they were saying harmful meds are in the corn, but I did not find ANY data to support this. And so no. I found no scary data whatsoever in my search for it even. Happy to report. I reprted in this thread the anti-gmo data I found, and it was not scary in any way, but I found justifiable concern.
    "TRUTH" is very subjective and has no basis in the current conversation. Suffice to say, you have continually denied the origins and original meaning behind the images you posted and are not trying to deny that you did not actually look at the origins. There is no "can be used", they are explicitly created to cast fear about what gmos are. You then posted them on this tread with no commentary at all, and got defensive when you were asked to explain.
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

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    Quote Originally Posted by serloco View Post
    You missed my point and then twisted my point entirely. I did not post pictures of people being hurt by toxic corn in any way shape or form. Nor did I post a picture implying harmful meds are in the corn, or any such harm at all.
    Then I am glad, for the sake of the GMO industry, that you have nothing to do with their public relations. They have enough trouble as it is.
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    You guys just see what you want to see. I already told you the truth of my actions, my views and my findings. I haven't lied about anything. I haven't denied any truth. Not once.
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    Quote Originally Posted by serloco View Post
    You guys just see what you want to see. I already told you the truth of my actions, my views and my findings. I haven't lied about anything. I haven't denied any truth. Not once.
    Yes, I think you actually do believe what you are saying.
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    I have very serious doubts about Serloc's claims to be a professional in any scientific field.
    I see that there is a lot of potential profit to be made, and enhancements thorugh genetic engineering, one of my fields of study actually. Being a quantum chemist myself, studying nanomeds, genetics etc.
    He reads like a high school educated wise ass. A near perfect illustration of the original meaning of 'Sophmore".
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sealeaf View Post
    I have very serious doubts about Serloc's claims to be a professional in any scientific field.
    I see that there is a lot of potential profit to be made, and enhancements thorugh genetic engineering, one of my fields of study actually. Being a quantum chemist myself, studying nanomeds, genetics etc.
    He reads like a high school educated wise ass. A near perfect illustration of the original meaning of 'Sophmore".
    Serloco claimed to be a professional in many fields. Read this thread for more examples and a good laugh.

    Forming the mind, memory, neuron activity, and healing illness.
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    Quote Originally Posted by serloco View Post
    You guys just see what you want to see.
    Hysterical post since at least twice he's written something to the effect of...

    "I just like the pretty pictures of corn and hypodermics... I see what I wanna see."
    "Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes that you can do these things. Among them are a few Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or businessman from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid."
    President Dwight Eisenhower
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    Crops can be made to be dependent on certain nutrients to express their genes and produce the relevant proteins. As for cross pollination, you can make their seeds sterile.
    I can never know I'm right, but I can know that I'm wrong.
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