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Thread: The United States has just gone through its coldest interequinoctial winter in a century.

  1. #1 The United States has just gone through its coldest interequinoctial winter in a century. 
    Forum Radioactive Isotope sculptor's Avatar
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    The United States has just gone through its coldest interequinoctial winter in a century.

    wowie zowie

    but it sure was balmy in Finland


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    Yup, bizarre.


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    We had the mildest month of January in the Yukon that I can remember and I have lived within 100 miles of this location since 1969. February was pretty average and the last half March has been a bit colder than normal. We also had our whole winter's snow descend in December and have had barely any measurable precipitation since then in the Whitehorse area.

    Definitely the strangest year in my recall here also although not unduly arduous.

    Certainly feeling for the folks on the east coast of this continent. Winter has been a bitch for many regions.
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  5. #4  
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    Just to get a visual idea and perspective on the recent NH winter -



    Given the enormous geopolitical influence of the USA, having lots of people there believing that the cold winter just experienced shows that global warming isn't happening is probaby not good. That dark blue bit is not global cooling.
    Last edited by Ken Fabos; April 1st, 2014 at 07:59 PM.
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    but it sure was balmy in Finland

    And Norway had forest fires. In winter. In January.

    Arctic Wildfires In Winter: Norway Experiences Freakish Historic Wildfires In January | robertscribbler

    As of Wednesday, the fire had exploded to the largest wildfire recorded in Norway since World War II. It had also consumed 139 homes as it raced down the rocky mountain sides of western Norway.
    Needless to say, it is not at all normal for Norway to experience wildfires of record intensity during winter time. A clear sign that climate change together with a mangled jet stream and extreme polar amplification are well in play to create dangerous and freakish conditions.
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  7. #6  
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    forest fires in Norway----------------doin their part for "global warming" of which, we could use some in Iowa.
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  8. #7  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Fabos View Post
    Just to get a visual idea and perspective on the recent NH winter -



    Given the enormous geopolitical influence of the USA, having lots of people there believing that the cold winter just experienced shows that global warming isn't happening is probaby not good. That dark blue bit is not global cooling.
    this is a very interesting picture. 1 winter cannot be used as evidence of warming but many of these types of winters probably can. is there summer pictures too ? other past falls and springs ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chucknorium View Post
    this is a very interesting picture. 1 winter cannot be used as evidence of warming but many of these types of winters probably can. is there summer pictures too ? other past falls and springs ?
    and/or of this past interequinoctial winter?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chucknorium View Post
    this is a very interesting picture. 1 winter cannot be used as evidence of warming but many of these types of winters probably can. is there summer pictures too ? other past falls and springs ?
    You should be able to pull them the National Climate data center. State of the Climate | National Climatic Data Center (NCDC)
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    Chucknorium, Scuptor, the image came from http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/maps/ and you can pick month, season, year or series of years to display. For example, average of winters for the period 2004-2013 will give you this -

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    Interesting observations, all. Inconvenient, though; I hope you all feel guilty. I know I do. As custodians, we suck. I had begun befouling the Earth well before there was any Earth Day. Nobody cared until the 1960s. Now, It may already be too late. Sorry for the truth. Blame Al Gore; he's the guilty one. (this will actually make sense to far too many)
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  13. #12  
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    I couldn't find a way to get 6 month segments
    interequinoctial winter or summer,
    nor the time between sun stoppages

    ............
    did I miss something simple?
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  14. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by umbradiago View Post
    Interesting observations, all. Inconvenient, though; I hope you all feel guilty. I know I do. As custodians, we suck. I had begun befouling the Earth well before there was any Earth Day. Nobody cared until the 1960s. Now, It may already be too late. Sorry for the truth. Blame Al Gore; he's the guilty one. (this will actually make sense to far too many)
    jeez dad
    maybe better you should light a candle rather than curse your darkness.
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    I'm better at raging blazes, but that probably wouldn't help things. Besides, who says you can't do both ? Don't forget to brush.
    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by umbradiago View Post
    Interesting observations, all. Inconvenient, though; I hope you all feel guilty. I know I do. As custodians, we suck. I had begun befouling the Earth well before there was any Earth Day. Nobody cared until the 1960s. Now, It may already be too late. Sorry for the truth. Blame Al Gore; he's the guilty one. (this will actually make sense to far too many)
    jeez dad
    maybe better you should light a candle rather than curse your darkness.
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  16. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by umbradiago View Post
    Interesting observations, all. Inconvenient, though; I hope you all feel guilty. I know I do. As custodians, we suck. I had begun befouling the Earth well before there was any Earth Day. Nobody cared until the 1960s. Now, It may already be too late. Sorry for the truth. Blame Al Gore; he's the guilty one. (this will actually make sense to far too many)
    Guilt and despair are traps we shouldn't let ourselves fall into.

    If we break our mother's dearly loved heirloom pieces of tableware, we should apologise, clean up the mess and never, ever forget to be more careful in the future. We have to do the global equivalent.

    We should let the knowledge that we have f@&#ed things up mightily - and we have - drive us to more, faster, better action to get things on a better footing. We should also face the fact that letting ourselves be led, unwittingly, into the disasters that face us means that we now have to do things we'd rather not do.

    Like getting involved in politics. We can plant trees, we can reduce our own meat consumption, we can be wise - or even frugal - in using power to assuage those guilt feelings. But individual virtuous action isn't enough. Individuals can only address issues like public transport, redesigning urban spaces, changing house design rules, creating and enforcing marine parks, by acting in concert with others. Otherwise known as politics.

    And we can never be satisfied. Terrible things are going to happen to some people in various places - large parts of Bangladesh and Florida, several island nations and substantial areas and infrastructure of a lot of port cities around the world will be unusable, uninhabitable or under water in our grandchildren's lifetimes, if not our own. Food prices will continue rising in the places they already are and become more volatile everywhere. Which is a polite way of saying that a lot more people will suffer malnutrition and starvation, and it won't be a single drought or flood year that people can recover from in a year or two. That should strengthen our resolve rather than weaken it.

    Throwing our hands in the air or looking around to prosecute anyone and everyone who misused their power and influence to make things worse for longer is a distraction from the real work that needs doing. Sitting around feeling guilty, sad and miserable about our earlier failures is a way to continue to fail.
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    I agree, Adelady. I complain and do virtually nothing about environmental matters, except to vote; which is frustrating. Despair is never helpful. Guilt, I'm not quite sure of.
    I do feel in my old age the guilt of not leaving this planet, for my progeny and the world, in the condition it was upon entering it. I've done little to help except to try to conserve and not to waste. The G.W. deniers tick me off; there seems to be adequate reason to conclude humans have altered our climate. I won't live to see it, but threats loom ahead.
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  18. #17  
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    You don't have to do a lot. Some of it is conversational.

    When a reasonably well-off friend or a relative talks about house renovations, it's worth leading the conversation along the lines of not spending on "dead" costs like granite benchtops or a large swimming pool. Some of the money would be much better spent on improving insulation or solar panels/ solar hot water/ solar heated pool or double glazing or a large capacity water tank to store roof runoff or another money saving or money making options suitable for the region. Even the "what would I do with lottery winnings" conversations can be directed along these lines.

    Same thing goes for car conversations. It's not your job to make people buy cars they don't want, but it's always worth talking about the advantages of the low fuel consumption of hybrids or the spectacular torque of EVs. You can merely mention that, if you had the money for it, you'd definitely be looking at an EV. Or you might be waiting for better prices or for better access to recharge points because EV is ideal for your usual car use but you'd like back up for unusual days. (Like for instance a couple of dozen recharge stations in hospital carparks because people visiting hospital patients often have to go out of their usual driving patterns to get there - sometimes a long way out of the usual.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    I couldn't find a way to get 6 month segments
    interequinoctial winter or summer,
    nor the time between sun stoppages

    ............
    did I miss something simple?
    It's not a typical metric used to measure climate (or change)--most agencies use monthly, seasonal or annual (or longer) periods to view min, max, averages etc.

    Nor should be put total credence in the original chart compiled by a non climate agency--at the time of release it was based on raw station temperatures for March which haven't been quality checked for temporal, spatial, or outliers errors in the data nor gone through post processing for spatial interpolation and averaging. The screened temperature data for March probably won't be complete for another week or so. All that being said, I don't think is will change the chart by much and continue to show the past six months one of the coldest of the past century for 2% of the globe--interesting but unimportant in the larger context of global or even regional climate change.
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  20. #19  
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    I don't live and survive
    in the larger context
    I live in IOWA
    brrrrrrrrrrrrr(he said as a shiver ran down his back)
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    BTW, would more forest fires cause a drop in temperature?
    Last edited by icewendigo; April 1st, 2014 at 01:05 PM.
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    And where I live we've just had the hottest ever first day of April. 36.6C (97.8 in old money.) Though there was a hotter day later in April day a few years ago - 2005.

    I'm dreading the next big El Nino year. Which might happen later this year. All I can hope for is that the Indian Ocean doesn't get in on the act. When the dipole is unfriendly, all bets are off for heat here - that's when we get the killer heatwaves.
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  23. #22  
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    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    I don't live and survive
    in the larger context
    I live in IOWA
    brrrrrrrrrrrrr(he said as a shiver ran down his back)
    Well since you enjoy talking about the weather, you probably remember last year, when the six months of winter were quite warm where you live.
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    Hi Lynx_Fox do you have such a graphic for last summer, the darker regions appear to be concentrated at the top of the northern hemisphere, Im wondering if the north was also relatively high last summer or if the southern pole region was relatively higher?


    BTW, why does the Northern Hemisphere appear to get warmer, is there more GHG in the northern hemisphere than the southern one or is something else explaining that?
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    Something wrong with your map dad.
    I lived through it.
    Nov-Dec, weren't bad, but Jan-April were brutal-----winter fell under the effects of an ssw event, disruption of the polar vortex in January, and damned cold air spilling down over the midwest for the next 4 months.

    I was still using firewood in late april, and used all that I had laid in.

    I suspect that if you could drop Nov-Dec from that poor excuse for a weather map, you'd see a completely different picture.
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  26. #25  
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    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    Something wrong with your map dad.
    There's nothing wrong with the map. And I remember you did post one whinny thread about how cold it was when it turned out to actually still be above average and among the warmest third of winters. What probably happened there is folks, including yourself have forgotten was an average winter is really like in IoWa. Here's the months, really warm in Jan, modereately warm in Feb and getting colder than average towards the end of winter and a miserable early spring.


    Here is February last year:



    --
    And a return to cooler for March:

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    Quote Originally Posted by icewendigo View Post
    Hi Lynx_Fox do you have such a graphic for last summer, the darker regions appear to be concentrated at the top of the northern hemisphere, Im wondering if the north was also relatively high last summer or if the southern pole region was relatively higher?
    Sure:
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    General Summary(feb 2013). Iowa temperatures averaged 23.6° or 0.4° below normal while
    precipitation totaled 1.30 inches or 0.25 inches above normal.
    from:
    http://www.iowaagriculture.gov/clima.../pms201302.pdf

    and for march, 2013
    Iowa temperatures averaged 28.5° or 7.4° below normal while
    precipitation totaled 2.17 inches or 0.02 inches above normal. This ranks as the 17th
    coldest and 49th wettest March among 141 years of state records. A colder March has
    not been recorded since 1975.

    .......................
    so
    according to the iowa dept. of agriculture
    your feb map is a tad on the erroneous side
    or, at-least could lead to an erroneous conclusion

    ..............
    I don't suppose you know how to just get your global warming going only in Iowa's winters?
    If it's "global warming" I want my fair share!
    Could you: Just put a pale blue smudge over Iowa?
    please
    Last edited by sculptor; April 1st, 2014 at 02:10 PM.
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    "Iowa temperatures averaged 23.6° or 0.4° below normal while precipitation totaled 1.30 inches or 0.25 inches above normal. This ranks as the 66th warmest and 42nd wettest February among 141 years of records."

    Can you figure out what's going on here. (I'm teasing).
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  30. #29  
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    yeh
    me too

    This ranks as the 66th warmest...
    only the 66th?
    gee
    darn
    (I was hoping "global warming" could help us do better than 66th out of 141)
    On a test, would that rank as a C or a D+? (with warmer being an A, and coldest being an F-)
    The greatest number of -F = the lowest F-
    Last edited by sculptor; April 1st, 2014 at 03:26 PM.
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  31. #30  
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    how can 1 winter in 1 location be used as a climate argument ? it is weather, not climate ? my friends say it is the warmest winter here they have seen but i tell them the same thing.
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    When I view this thread the temperature map images don't all appear - this time the first one I used appears but others have vanished. Previously only the one Lynx Fox included was visible. Anyone else have this problem? Should I be saving the image and uploading from my computer rather than linking to the image? Retrieve and reference locally being ticked wasn't working for me at all - I couldn't get the image to insert - so I unticked it.

    Sculptor, if the price of a climate more pleasant where you live is that the climate is less pleasant where others live, do you still want global warming to progress unimpeded? Do you genuinely expect the climate to be more often more to your liking if it does go on unimpeded? Where is the global 'sweet spot' of ideal climate for you and your location going to be ? ie what is the new global equilibrium that produces that outcome going to be and how do you ensure that climate change doesn't overshoot and end up less pleasant where you live after all? What control mechanism for this change do you have in mind, to allow you to stop it when you get enough local warming and not too much? What about the climate elsewhere?
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  33. #32  
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    Yeh Ken
    I just checked, and only saw 2 of the maps

    ................
    imho the world will be better off with +2 degrees rather than -2degrees
    and the other side of our symbiotic relationship loves more CO2

    Yeh Ken, the ultimate goal would be to be able to control the climate
    The main problem would be competing interest
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