Notices
Results 1 to 40 of 40
Like Tree10Likes
  • 3 Post By skeptic
  • 2 Post By Lynx_Fox
  • 2 Post By skeptic
  • 1 Post By adelady
  • 2 Post By adelady

Thread: The solution against deserts !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  1. #1 The solution against deserts !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    5
    What i am gonna explain now is very simple to understand.
    That is why i am gonna try to keep the explanation as short as possible.


    We all know that there are deserts in the world, and that it is always hot in deserts during the day.
    And we know that there is plenty of salt water in the seas of the planet earth.
    That means that people can draw rivers from the seas into the deserts by making rivers in the deserts !!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Then that rivers will be made out of salt water but the sun will vaporize the water and it will condens and fall down as rain on the desert plants !!!!!!!!!!!
    Then the salt that stays in the rivers will be flushed into the sea again, and this proces repeats itself without a end.
    Then people can build hundreds of rivers from the seas into the deserts and the deserts will become green.


    i think that this is a awesome cool and simple idea, i hope that someone will try to experiment with it.


    Reply With Quote  
     

  2.  
     

  3. #2  
    Forum Masters Degree
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    703
    No, the rain will fall somewhere else far far away from the desert.


    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #3  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    276
    I think it's necessary to stop desertification, not eliminating deserts all together (which could severely damage the heating balance of the affected regions).

    Besides just that, your plan seems impractical.

    1) As there is plenty of saltwater, it would require an enormous amount of work and money to construct canal systems that would span from one sea to another (as rivers like these can't flow otherwise).

    2) About the sun evaporating the water, this is also impractical. Look at the Arabian peninsula, surrounded by saltwater seas, but the deserts still remain. The rain systems won't just appear and wash down water right there. Weather's more complicated than that. (also, deserts are usually protected from rain by mountaneous surroundings, aka the Rain Shadow Effect)

    3) Since deserts are largely shaped by wind (which is the main mechanism of desertification), it will spread the salt left behind from evaporation. Which will damage and possibly prevent any flourishing plant life in the area and for even hundreds of miles away.

    I don't understand the cycle you're trying to make. I don't think this will work, but keep thinking
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #4  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    city of wine and roses
    Posts
    6,222
    Something like this bloke is talking about might be more useful.

    Seawater greenhouses and CSP - starts at about 6:50.
    Michael Pawlyn: Using nature's genius in architecture | Video on TED.com
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
    "nature is like a game of Jenga; you never know which brick you pull out will cause the whole stack to collapse" Lucy Cooke
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #5  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope skeptic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    4,843
    To get significant amounts of sea water into desert rivers would require an enormous pumping effort, since land (on the most part) is uphill from the sea. The energy needs would be enormous, and the capital cost of those immense pumps would be massive.

    And then the sea water that evaporated would simply stay in the dry desert air and not fall as rain.

    What you need is a method of getting fresh water cheaply and in very large amounts, from sea water, and then using the fresh water for irrigation. Lots of the world's best technologists are already working hard on that problem.
    The system adelady referred to is one such.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #6  
    Comet Dust Collector Moderator
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    New Jersey, USA
    Posts
    2,848
    Quote Originally Posted by moker View Post
    What i am gonna explain now is very simple to understand.
    That is why i am gonna try to keep the explanation as short as possible.


    We all know that there are deserts in the world, and that it is always hot in deserts during the day.
    And we know that there is plenty of salt water in the seas of the planet earth.
    That means that people can draw rivers from the seas into the deserts by making rivers in the deserts !!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Then that rivers will be made out of salt water but the sun will vaporize the water and it will condens and fall down as rain on the desert plants !!!!!!!!!!!
    Then the salt that stays in the rivers will be flushed into the sea again, and this proces repeats itself without a end.
    Then people can build hundreds of rivers from the seas into the deserts and the deserts will become green.


    i think that this is a awesome cool and simple idea, i hope that someone will try to experiment with it.
    yeah, so you don't understand the first thing about meteorology or physics, eh?

    BTW, 25 exclamation points makes you look like an ass.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #7  
    The Enchanter westwind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    1,079
    The Sunraysia District in north west Victoria, Australia, was a water into gold project. Irragation water from Australia's Eastern Highlands, ( Winter snowfall run off melt ), carried along river systems with appropriate Weirs and Locks, was used to convert dry sandy country into the Fruit Bowl of Australia. The Chaffey Bros. from Canada/America were the developers of this project at the turn of the 20th Century. westwind.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #8  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    8,416
    We all know that there are deserts in the world, and that it is always hot in deserts during the day.
    No reall true. Some are below freezing almost year round, many other are quite cold during the winter.

    Not sure why we'd want to despoil such beautiful and rich places anyhow.
    --
    I guess I'm adding geography and climate to the list.
    Last edited by Lynx_Fox; February 15th, 2012 at 09:21 PM.
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
    “The Holy Land is everywhere” Black Elk
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #9  
    Time Lord
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    5,328
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Not sure why we'd want to despoil such beautiful and rich places anyhow.
    Besides desert dust seeds clouds, so what happens to Earth's albedo when we conquer the deserts?
    A pong by any other name is still a pong. -williampinn
    Reply With Quote  
     

  11. #10  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    24
    Your enthusiasm is great, but, the Nile River runs through a desert and does nothing against the desert for the surrounding areas further than a matter of Kilometers, if that.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  12. #11  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    24
    Fitzroy River in NW Aus runs through a desert too, as does the Colorado River and the Tigris and Euphrates for some stretches of them. Just having a river run through a desert does nothing for the bigger plan of eradicating desert landscapes.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  13. #12  
    Forum Sophomore
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    117
    The reason that the Sahara is so dry at present is that is NOT HOT ENOUGH.
    If the climate was warmer, it would create a North African monsoon and turn the Sahara into a tropical paradise.
    It has been like this in the past - there are vast amounts of fresh water deposited under the desert in the past.

    Digging rivers into the desert would be a huge and costly engineering project. We are managing to warm up the earths
    climate as a spin off of our energy-inefficient life style at no extra cost.

    What can you do?

    To address this I have ceased to use my car except when it is unavoidable. As a result I've not driven a car or bought any petrol so far this year.
    [I only used my car 3 times last year, I share it with other members of my family and it's got me fitter ]
    I've been using public transport for work and for the weekly shop I make a number of trips to my local supermarket on my mountain bike.

    I accept that not everyone is able to take as drastic a step as this but unless you are a self sufficient hippie living in a teepee, I can honestly declare that my carbon footprint is way smaller than yours
    Reply With Quote  
     

  14. #13  
    Forum Professor jrmonroe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,444
    Presently, the Nubian Sandstone Aquifer System lies below the eastern Sahara, and Libya is pumping out a million gallons a day mostly to water the Kufra oases. This is probably the best way to inject water into desert regions -- contain and control it.
    Grief is the price we pay for love. (CM Parkes) Our postillion has been struck by lightning. (Unknown) War is always the choice of the chosen who will not have to fight. (Bono) The years tell much what the days never knew. (RW Emerson) Reality is not always probable, or likely. (JL Borges)
    Reply With Quote  
     

  15. #14  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    27
    I hate to rain on your parade my friend, but what you are suggesting would destroy what little life is present in the desert. After the water evaporated, you would be left with massive salt flats where little could grow.

    In the Sahara, if you enclosed the seawater in an underground pipeline and used the heat of the sun to desalinize the water through evaporation/condensation, you might get enough for small agricultural production but not enough for "making the desert bloom".

    You would have to return a highly saline slurry to the ocean and your lines would have to be leak free to prevent disaster.

    If you are interested here is an article on one of the greatest man-made disasters through irrigation.


    http://gfipps.tamu.edu/Publications&...s/Aral Sea.pdf
    Reply With Quote  
     

  16. #15  
    Forum Bachelors Degree dmwyant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    456
    Whipped cream and Strawberries? Or chocalate... one can never really go wrong with chocolate... Oh wait Desert not Dessert... My fault..
    All joking aside deserts are a very nescessary part of the earths eco system. just like the Savanah and th Rain Forest. If we begin to make major alterations we cause global imbalances which can create strange and devastatingly unpredictable weather patterns as well as other problems. Besides, I quite like the desert. There is a beauty to them found in the harshness. And what of the creatures that live in the desert. If you destroy their ecosystem you would wipe out entire species. Not to mention the ways of life for some tribes of people who have lived that way for thousands of years, such as the Bedouin.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  17. #16  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    17
    Isn't it a great idea? But why I haven't seen such projects built or undergoing?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  18. #17  
    Forum Professor jrmonroe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,444
    Quote Originally Posted by dmwyant View Post
    deserts are a very necessary part of the earths eco system.
    I like to think of it as the Earth's status quo eco system. Changing deserts would change the eco system, whether for "good" or "bad", and it would be quite the experiment. We've been changing it by burning fossil fuels → global warming, etc. Unfortunately, 100 years ago, no one said that vast below-ground sequestration of hydrocarbons is a very necessary part of the Earth's [status quo] eco system.

    Notice that most deserts exist within particular latitudinal bands around the Earth.
    Grief is the price we pay for love. (CM Parkes) Our postillion has been struck by lightning. (Unknown) War is always the choice of the chosen who will not have to fight. (Bono) The years tell much what the days never knew. (RW Emerson) Reality is not always probable, or likely. (JL Borges)
    Reply With Quote  
     

  19. #18  
    Forum Professor Zwolver's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    1,667
    Quote Originally Posted by dmwyant View Post
    All joking aside deserts are a very nescessary part of the earths eco system. just like the Savanah and th Rain Forest. If we begin to make major alterations we cause global imbalances which can create strange and devastatingly unpredictable weather patterns as well as other problems.
    The desert is a result of the eco system, not the cause of it. Not even all of the rainforests combined have a huge impact on our ecosystem, but still bigger then the desert, as there is life there, and a desert, is.... well deserted.

    Though to change the desert into a grassland, scattered with trees, plenty of berries and springs everywhere. Well i think it is possible, but it requires intensive management. Not only of water, the soil needs to be undesertified, as the yellow sand, is a nightmare for normal plant life. The only way is to, seed. In the middle of a desert, there needs to be water, some fertile soil to begin with, some trees, bushes, and grass. This needs to be protected from wind, storms etc, so screens are required, and this needs to grow slowly, like 10 meters a year on all sides. It will take 10.000 years for it to be selfsufficiënt though. But water needs to be pumped in constantly.

    Pumping water isn't really a problem, as the desert has plenty of wind.
    Growing up, i marveled at star-trek's science, and ignored the perfect society. Now, i try to ignore their science, and marvel at the society.

    Imagine, being able to create matter out of thin air, and not coming up with using drones for boarding hostile ships. Or using drones to defend your own ship. Heck, using drones to block energy attacks, counterattack or for surveillance. Unless, of course, they are nano-machines in your blood, which is a billion times more complex..
    Reply With Quote  
     

  20. #19  
    Time Lord Paleoichneum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Washington State, USA
    Posts
    5,220
    Quote Originally Posted by Zwolver View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dmwyant View Post
    All joking aside deserts are a very nescessary part of the earths eco system. just like the Savanah and th Rain Forest. If we begin to make major alterations we cause global imbalances which can create strange and devastatingly unpredictable weather patterns as well as other problems.
    The desert is a result of the eco system, not the cause of it. Not even all of the rainforests combined have a huge impact on our ecosystem, but still bigger then the desert, as there is life there, and a desert, is.... well deserted.
    Interesting statement, what is it based off of? Also what particular type of desert are you referencing?
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

    The needs of the many outweigh the need of the few - Spock of Vulcan & Sentinel Prime of Cybertron ---proof that "the needs" are in the eye of the beholder.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  21. #20  
    Forum Professor Zwolver's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    1,667
    My statement was based solely on observation, and interpretation. It's not scourced anywhere. Disprove my statement if you like. Though, the oceans machinate >70% of our entire eco system, mountains take >10%, fields and forests and rainforests take up another >10%. There is less then 5% left for deserts, while they cover more then 10% of our planet.

    I mainly refer to the deserts recently formed (<1000 years ago) by desertification.

    In my own (twisted?) opinion, deserts harbor no life, don't hold water, don't affect other eco systems much. (apart from desert sand fallout)
    Growing up, i marveled at star-trek's science, and ignored the perfect society. Now, i try to ignore their science, and marvel at the society.

    Imagine, being able to create matter out of thin air, and not coming up with using drones for boarding hostile ships. Or using drones to defend your own ship. Heck, using drones to block energy attacks, counterattack or for surveillance. Unless, of course, they are nano-machines in your blood, which is a billion times more complex..
    Reply With Quote  
     

  22. #21  
    Time Lord Paleoichneum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Washington State, USA
    Posts
    5,220
    So you have not actually done much research at all into deserts and are basing your opinion solely on the edia stereotypes of deserts.

    Where are your stats from?
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

    The needs of the many outweigh the need of the few - Spock of Vulcan & Sentinel Prime of Cybertron ---proof that "the needs" are in the eye of the beholder.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  23. #22  
    Ascended Member Ascended's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Norfolk
    Posts
    3,414
    The world is steadily losing land to desertification, every day, month and year more land turns to desert and humans use up more of the worlds fresh water supply.
    Also every year the west imports billions of gallons oil that arrive in huge ocean going oil tankers.

    How about we set up desalination plants and export fresh water back to africa and the middle east in these same vast tankers that arrive full of oil. This would certainly help to get back some of the vast amount of money payed out for oil every year and provide drinking water for millions who need it.
    Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it. - confucius
    Reply With Quote  
     

  24. #23  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope sculptor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    4,211
    we can shrink(and many have shrunk) the deserts--mainly by planting trees at the margins
    if you think of a desert as endless sand dunes, then your definition of desert is a very small portion of the greater desert which has "scrub" vegetation
    the desert bands are governed by the hadley cells
    if anthropogenic global warming is really happening, then the hadley cells will readjust themselves, and the deserts will move to slightly different latitudes
    .................
    it has been said that puerto rico is one of the dustiest places on earth ,because, dust picked up in the sahara is dumped there.

    irrigation from ground water can indeed "make the desert bloom" but
    along with the water pumped from underground aquafers, you also get disolved mineral salts
    and, eventually, these will accumulate on the surface of the soils creating a salt hard pan which is inhospitable to most of our food crops

    in a limited way, we rule nature
    but ultimately
    nature rules us
    can we change our natures
    and then can we change the nature of nature
    controlling for all the variables?

    personally,
    I ain't nearly that optomistic
    Reply With Quote  
     

  25. #24  
    Forum Professor Zwolver's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    1,667
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    So you have not actually done much research at all into deserts and are basing your opinion solely on the edia stereotypes of deserts.

    Where are your stats from?
    Haven't done any research about deserts, have no knowledge about geology whatsoever. Actually all i know is that a desert is pretty dry..
    Growing up, i marveled at star-trek's science, and ignored the perfect society. Now, i try to ignore their science, and marvel at the society.

    Imagine, being able to create matter out of thin air, and not coming up with using drones for boarding hostile ships. Or using drones to defend your own ship. Heck, using drones to block energy attacks, counterattack or for surveillance. Unless, of course, they are nano-machines in your blood, which is a billion times more complex..
    Reply With Quote  
     

  26. #25  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope skeptic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    4,843
    Chris

    Your idea that deserts are growing is not supported by empirical evidence. Deserts grow during periods of drought, and then shrink again during periods of wetter times. The media tend to emphasize the drought times, since this makes better copy. Overall, it may be that deserts are slowly shrinking.
    Sahara Desert Greening Due to Climate Change?
    Lynx_Fox, sculptor and Gerrit Jan like this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  27. #26  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    28
    A better train of thought would be about the fact that some plants can have 95% of there potassium requirements fulfilled by sodium - allowing you to irrigate to a marginal extent with seawater.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  28. #27  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    8,416
    Quote Originally Posted by skeptic View Post
    Chris

    Your idea that deserts are growing is not supported by empirical evidence. Deserts grow during periods of drought, and then shrink again during periods of wetter times. The media tend to emphasize the drought times, since this makes better copy. Overall, it may be that deserts are slowly shrinking.
    Sahara Desert Greening Due to Climate Change?
    That National Geography graphic almost made me sick in its dishonest portrayal of likely climate changes that made it look as if there won't be a single positive effect and overemphasizing the negative (e.g. loss of "native lifestyle" in Alaska...ya right...natives driving snow mobiles living in mobile homes)...
    sculptor and Gerrit Jan like this.
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
    “The Holy Land is everywhere” Black Elk
    Reply With Quote  
     

  29. #28  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope sculptor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    4,211
    plowing and planting the tundra
    wind surfing the arctic ocean
    maybe
    we are the species that can defend the temperate earth from the next onset of the glaciers
    -------------if there is a collective unconscious of the entire biosphere or intelligent design---maybe that's why we are who we are, doing what we are doing?

    those who only imagine the negative
    make really worthless leaders
    Reply With Quote  
     

  30. #29  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard icewendigo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,150
    I think planting a lot of plants that can survive deserts with less irrigation would be a first step. Once you have a biomass with roots, then you might be able to introduce a greater variety of plants and look at irrigation systems(that are adapted/different from what we are used to, ex, underground and not above ground, so that roots can access it without the water evaporating before it reaches anything).

    If we wanted to kind of terraform mars, it would be pointless to plant earth plants in martian wilderness, they'd die. The best thing would be to plant genetically modified plants designed to survive and proliferate in martian conditions, and create biodome greenhouses with earth-like conditions where you would plant vegetation we are familiar with).
    Reply With Quote  
     

  31. #30  
    Ascended Member Ascended's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Norfolk
    Posts
    3,414
    Quote Originally Posted by skeptic View Post
    Chris

    Your idea that deserts are growing is not supported by empirical evidence. Deserts grow during periods of drought, and then shrink again during periods of wetter times. The media tend to emphasize the drought times, since this makes better copy. Overall, it may be that deserts are slowly shrinking.
    Sahara Desert Greening Due to Climate Change?
    Guys, I'm really suprised at your opinions on this one. Desertification has long been put forward as a major problem in the world, there is even a convention set out for desertification. Any google image search will show you many pictures of the effects of desertification. It is proving to be a real blight on the lives of many.

    I think my opinion could be taken as subjective so I'll put some links on to help you make up your own minds.

    Scientific Facts on Desertification

    DESERTIFICATION | All about drought, desertification and poverty in the drylands

    and also

    United Nations Convention to Combat Desertification

    UNCCD - Home
    Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it. - confucius
    Reply With Quote  
     

  32. #31  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    8,416
    Spectic's point about we only tend to hear about the desertification, but not places where there are many success stories, turning desert into farmland (look at Southern California!). Climate change, might increase overall size of desert biomes, but to leave it at that oversimplifies the subject. Some places will see enough increased rainfall to return to grasslands.
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
    “The Holy Land is everywhere” Black Elk
    Reply With Quote  
     

  33. #32  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope skeptic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    4,843
    Chris

    Yes, desertification happens. But so does the greening of dry lands. There are periods of drought, and periods of heavy rain. Look at Australia. Had a ten year nasty drought. Now it is having floods. The Australian desert is greening, big time!

    The point is that the droughts get the publicity. Good news sells no newspapers, so we hear little of the opposite. Which is greater? Probably the greening. This is a theoretical outcome of global warming. Warmer air carries more water, which means more rain. Some areas will become dryer, but it is probable that more areas will become greener.

    We know that the Sahara was once green. About 6,000 years ago.
    Green Sahara

    It may well be that global warming will once more create a green Sahara. Climate change will make some areas green, and create deserts in other areas. Overall, there should be more greening, but only time will tell for sure.
    sculptor and Gerrit Jan like this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  34. #33  
    Forum Bachelors Degree dmwyant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    456
    Is it possible that "desertification" is part of a natural cycle? Kind of a tidal-surge of life. I know historically we have had periods of warming and cooling as evidenced by th eadvance and retreat of glaciers. Perhaps, and this is simply speculation, deserts operate in a similar manner.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  35. #34  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    city of wine and roses
    Posts
    6,222
    Quote Originally Posted by dmwyant View Post
    Is it possible that "desertification" is part of a natural cycle? Kind of a tidal-surge of life. I know historically we have had periods of warming and cooling as evidenced by th eadvance and retreat of glaciers. Perhaps, and this is simply speculation, deserts operate in a similar manner.
    The "periods of warming and cooling" you refer to result in the expansion and contraction of Hadley cells. Warmer periods, the poleward edges move further poleward. Cooler periods, they move back towards the equator a few degrees of latitude. So deserts advance and retreat in much the same way as icesheets and glaciers. All the major deserts - Africa, Australia, the Americas, Asia show these effects. They're affected by local geography so the effects are more or less obvious, but it's pretty standard stuff.

    With current warming, you can see the expansion effects in particular places. Southern Australia is right on the edge of the southern hemisphere Hadley cell circulation. So you can see the runoff to water storage around Perth plummeting as of a few decades ago. Here in South Australia the 'Goyder line', the margin where crops become unreliable and pastoral use is preferable, has moved southward 20+km. Noone wants to make an official announcement to that effect, but plenty of agronomists, farmers and geographers talk about it privately - and very tentatively in public. Basically, there's as much rainfall as before, but it's shifted so that what used to fall on the southernmost land edges is now falling out at sea, and the dry edge is moving more and more into 'traditional' farming areas.

    Of course, we should never overlook the idiotic farming practices that wrecked these desert edge lands in the first place. In SA they cleared miles after miles of sandalwood scrub, sold it to India (for funeral pyres) for a bit of working capital, planted a few crops, went broke, walked off the ruined landscape. Others took it over for sheep grazing, but it's never really recovered. We'll never see the sandalwood again. There are plenty of Landcare groups in the mid-North doing wonderful work with tree planting, my mother was astonished when I took her back there after 40+ years absence - she'd never seen any trees in some areas before.

    The same kinds of mis-management issues promote desertification in Africa. The popularity of cattle in some areas has devastated the landscape. And they even had laws in one country declaring that every single tree was the property of the government. Guess what happened to every seedling that sprouted in farmland ..... ruthlessly chipped off like every other undesirable weed. Nobody wanted to give soldiers an excuse to come onto their property. But there is hope. Incorporating trees with agriculture outstanding success in re-greening Sahel | World Agroforestry Centre More of this sort of thing and we might start thinking we've got a chance to repair some of the damage we've done.
    Last edited by adelady; May 14th, 2012 at 07:40 PM. Reason: typos
    sculptor likes this.
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
    "nature is like a game of Jenga; you never know which brick you pull out will cause the whole stack to collapse" Lucy Cooke
    Reply With Quote  
     

  36. #35  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    21
    OK,
    so this is just a quick reply.
    Recently I saw a documentary about a country in Africa (somewhere in the Sahel region) about people stopping to cut down trees.

    It Was called ''Bye Bye desert''

    Sorry this was a first time attempt, next time I will have the corps the killer and the smoking gun
    Reply With Quote  
     

  37. #36  
    Time Lord Paleoichneum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Washington State, USA
    Posts
    5,220
    Quote Originally Posted by Zwolver View Post

    In my own (twisted?) opinion, deserts harbor no life, don't hold water, don't affect other eco systems much. (apart from desert sand fallout)
    This is the statement that I was wanting you to source.
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

    The needs of the many outweigh the need of the few - Spock of Vulcan & Sentinel Prime of Cybertron ---proof that "the needs" are in the eye of the beholder.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  38. #37  
    Comet Dust Collector Moderator
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    New Jersey, USA
    Posts
    2,848
    Zwolver,

    Deserts harbor life, hold water, and affect other ecosystems in many ways, so your opinion is wrong
    Reply With Quote  
     

  39. #38  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope sculptor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    4,211
    skeptic--nice link
    "Meanwhile, the wind blows across Gobero, and the desert continues to consume the last remnants of the Green Sahara. "
    and, much like Cronus, will regurgitate them again
    Reply With Quote  
     

  40. #39  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    city of wine and roses
    Posts
    6,222
    Here's a nice overview of deserts and drylands.

    We're turning our land to sand &ndash; Opinion &ndash; ABC Environment (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
    One of the environmental movement's best kept secrets is that drylands supply the world's breadbasket. They account for 44 per cent of all cultivated systems and 50 per cent of the livestock. .........

    Australia is a prime example of this value. Only six per cent of the land can be farmed without irrigation. Yet, agriculture takes up 60 per cent of the total land area, with livestock grazing as the most extensive use.
    Worth a good long look. As well as this piece from Iraq's green belt front line " solution against deserts".

    Iraq 'green belt' front line in anti-desertification fight
    The project has involved the planting of 62,000 olive trees, 20,500 palm trees, 37,000 eucalyptus trees, and 4,200 tamarind trees, all of which were chosen for their root strength as well as for the food some eventually produce.
    westwind and Gerrit Jan like this.
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
    "nature is like a game of Jenga; you never know which brick you pull out will cause the whole stack to collapse" Lucy Cooke
    Reply With Quote  
     

  41. #40  
    The Enchanter westwind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    1,079
    Dear adelady. I lived for some time in North West Victoria, on the Murray River, on a small salt contaminated holding. The heat and the salt finished off most things planted, fruit trees, tomatoes. Corn. Everything that is except Mum's Flower garden. She planted flower seedlings in soil dug by yours truly. Then we rounded up cow manure, watered down chook manure, Bales of straw, Shade devices etc. Mum grew the best English Flowers, holly hocks, popies, Gladiolias, Sun Flowers, Marigolds, sweet peas and violets. And westwind watered them most afternoons from water in our Dam, irragated by channel flow from the Murray. Summer growing Season. Attention to detail, manure, water, and presto! House flowers in our tin house with dirt floors. I've appreciated the science of Horticulture ever since, and always remember mum'efforts at reclaimimg back ruined land. westwind.
    Reply With Quote  
     

Similar Threads

  1. Solution to 1/0
    By Aaronfresh in forum Mathematics
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: November 15th, 2011, 07:14 AM
  2. A Solution for Peace
    By Cosmo in forum Personal Theories & Alternative Ideas
    Replies: 51
    Last Post: January 25th, 2009, 03:09 PM
  3. Solution: Volatile or not?
    By ArezList in forum Chemistry
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: September 9th, 2008, 06:52 AM
  4. Vitamin E in solution.
    By maebelle in forum Chemistry
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: June 23rd, 2008, 02:49 PM
  5. Is there a solution for this integral?
    By sramanujam in forum Mathematics
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: September 10th, 2006, 03:01 AM
Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •