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Thread: Where is the missing Heat?

  1. #1 Where is the missing Heat? 
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    Over the past month or so, there have been several articles published as a result of Kenneth Trenberth and others studies suggesting that the Earth's energy budget is does not account for about half the heat energy that would have accumulated over the past several years (since 2003) if AGW by CO2 and other human sourced GHG actually has the effect that is claimed. Trenberth and others believe they have not located this missing energy though it is out there somewhere. Skeptics like me have a simpler solution to this enigma, namely that it never was and you can't find what is not there. So how about it proponents. Is this evidence that supports the skeptical view?


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  3. #2 Re: Where is the missing Heat? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by cypress
    Is this evidence that supports the skeptical view?
    No. And please, stop posting your delusions. Thank you.


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  4. #3  
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    If I were a AGW proponent I wouldn't touch this topic either. Smart move.
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  5. #4  
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    It simply doesn't. With GW you are not beating a dead horse, you are beating a horse skeleton. If you don't understand, you don't understand and nothing can change it.
    (Most likely it is in the deep sea, if you are really interested. Actually I don't understand why they assumed the opposite, as the warming is fastest in the polar regions and deep sea currents originate there)
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  6. #5  
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    An increasing number of scientists and general public see a very healthy horse. Forgive me for hanging out with them.

    The 3000 odd diving instruments have been unable to locate any buildup in heat content in the deep sea. Additionally according to latest reports arctic temperatures have been on a general decline since a 1998 peak. Arctic ice extent is influenced by temperature and other weather patterns and in 2007 they conspired against ice extent and it took some time to recover but they are now back to near normal.
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  7. #6  
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    The real mystery is the difference between the Argo system readings and the continuing sea-level rise.

    The missing "heat," (which should be described as "energy") is interesting but even the article identifies likely reasons.

    --

    Stay on topic--this isn't a general discussion about climate or a general attack thread on Cypress.
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
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  8. #7  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox
    The real mystery is the difference between the Argo system readings and the continuing sea-level rise.
    Yes, that would seem odd since about a third to half of the sea level increase has been attributed to thermal expansion, one would expect the rise to display inflections where there are changes in thermal flux into the ocean. I'll go have a look at the data.
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  9. #8  
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    Interesting..... We see an inflection beginning in 2005 through 2008.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cypress
    Additionally according to latest reports arctic temperatures have been on a general decline since a 1998 peak.
    No, they haven't.
    Quote Originally Posted by cypress
    Arctic ice extent is influenced by temperature and other weather patterns and in 2007 they conspired against ice extent and it took some time to recover but they are now back to near normal.
    No, it isn't.
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  11. #10  
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    Sorry Ice wrong again.

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  12. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by cypress
    Sorry Ice wrong again.
    How so?

    Your graph supports my contention about the ice, not yours. Having the greatest extent of sea ice in a decade still slightly below the thirty year average, itself below the apparent century average, is far from being back to "normal".
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  13. #12  
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    lol
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  14. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by cypress
    lol
    No sense in beating on this one, unless anyone else is similarly confused - is there anyone else besides cypress who thinks that the Arctic sea ice is "back to normal" on the evidence of that graph?

    Quote Originally Posted by lynx
    Stay on topic--this isn't a general discussion about climate or a general attack thread on Cypress.
    In particular, who thinks that is evidence that the "missing heat" is a significant support for the dismissers of AGW as an important climate influence?
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    Lynx-fox felt that the continued rise in sea level contradicts the data from diving instruments. However it turns out that mean sea level shows a strong inflection beginning in 2005 so the two data series appear to complement each other though perhaps time shifted by about 18 months. See the graphic posted earlier. Arctic Sea Ice extent is now nearly back to near normal (the 1979-2000, 21 year average) indicating the arctic and its sea is not holding this thermal energy that since around 2005 has gone missing.
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  16. #15  
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    Cypress - Perhaps you should have a more up to date graph showing the mean sea level anomaly. Note that yours only goes up to 2008. I'll provide one for you.



    I'm also surprised you attribute 2 months of further ice extent, which will disappear completely during summer months due to it's thickness, to have the meaning that the planet isn't warming. Especially given the odd weather due to the extremely negative arctic oscillation this year.
    "The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt" - Bertrand Russell
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  17. #16  
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    Thanks for the updated data. The source site was down when I tried it. I note that the inflection is still apparent in the data followed by a steep sudden increase of the same patterns observed on the onset of previous El Nino events. I note also that the average slope has declined by an additional 3% with the addition last years data. Certainly though the better data does support your view better. On Ice extent, the general recovery has been fairly consistent since the september 2007 minimum. It will be interesting to see what this September looks like. The recovery since 2007 of the ice extent was intended to provide an indirect indication that thermal energy may not be building in the arctic sea. I agree that the odd conditions that retarded extent growth between October 2009 and Feb 2010 and then allowed for a surge in March was unusual.
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