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Thread: Thousandfold inprovement in supercapacitors?

  1. #1 Thousandfold inprovement in supercapacitors? 
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    I found interesting article about
    work on supercapacitor improvements.
    If I understood right it might promise
    thousandfold improvements in their
    capacistance.Work involves use of
    nanoscale heterojunctions etc.
    Could somebody read this article
    and tell if it's true or not?

    arxiv.org/pdf/cond-mat/0508226

    Here is story:

    Giant and supergiant electrical capacity of heterostructures
    on a basis of advanced superionic conductors
    Alexander L. Despotuli*, Alexandra V. Andreeva*, and Peter P. Maltsev♣
    Nanoionics Laboratory, Institute of Microelectronics Technology RAS, Chernogolovka, Moscow Region, Russia
    *

    Department of Microsystems, Moscow State Institute of Radiotechniques, Electronics and Automatics, Moscow, Russia
    Advanced superionic conductor (ASIC)/electrochemical indifferent electrode (IE) heterostructures are the key elements of
    capacitors with double electric layer (DEL). We show for the first time that the specific capacity (ρС) of the ASIC/smooth IE
    heterojunctions can be considerably exceed ~10 μFcm-2 at the frequencies f >>10-2-10-1 Hz. Heterostructures of three types with the
    special ASIC/smooth IE interface design (different pairs of substances) were created. They show “capacitor-like” and “battery-like”
    behaviors and accumulate the giant charge. It is revealed: (i) the giant capacity (ρC ≈100 μFсm-2 at f ~2.105 Hz and ρС ≈300 μFсm-2 at
    f~104 Hz, 300 К) and giant charge density ρQ ≈2(4).10-4 C сm-2 at 300 (370) K for the «capacitor-like» behavior; (ii) in all
    heterostructures the transition from "capacitor-like" behavior to "battery-like" one occurs at the critical value ρQcr (> 2.10-4 C сm-2) and it
    allows accumulate the charge in 104-105 times more; (iii) the voltages of discharge plateaus grow with increase of applied external
    voltage, that can not be connected with electrochemical formation of new phase with permanent composition; (iv) the supergiant
    ρС~200000 μFcm-2 (f~10 Hz, 300-440К) ρС~10000 μFcm-2 (f~105 Hz, 440К) were discovered at the «capacitor-like» behavior. The
    results of work can find applications in the area of microsources with high energy ρE and power ρW densities.
    batteries and conventional capacitors. Supercapacitors have
    1. INTRODUCTION
    more ρE (smaller ρW) than conventional capacitors. The
    delayed ion transport in DEL is the cause of more low ρW. The
    The response of solid state ionic material/electrochemical
    experiments on the creation of ASIC/IE lattice-matched
    indifferent electrode (IE) interfaces to external electric fields is
    heterojunction with FIT in DEL were first carried out in the
    of both fundamental and practical interest. For instance, the
    IMT RAS (1991-1992) [4]. The appropriate results were first
    main obstacle for development of nano(micro)system
    published in [10, 11, 13]. Recently, for the increase of ρE , ρW
    technology (NMST) and wireless microsensors and
    and ρC densities in DEL the conception of ASIC/IE functional
    microrobots networks (WN) is the absence of autonomous
    coherent interfaces (with ρС ~100 μF/cm2 at the high
    microsourses with high energy ρE and power ρW densities.
    frequencies) was proposed [10-14].
    Traditional approaches to the creation of devices for energy
    In this work the approach «from advanced materials to
    storage are based on rational use of volume. However, at the
    advanced devices» [13] and nanoionics [15] are used to create
    nano- and microscale “surface-to-volume” relation is large.
    solid-state nanoionic sources (NS) [2-4]. The aim is to create
    Therefore, it needs the maximum use of interface properties to
    innovative heterostructures with a special interface design of
    achieve effective energy storage and power generation.
    heterojunctions on the ASIC basis, providing record high
    Some types of microsources (thin-film rechargeable
    values of capacity and functioning frequency. The
    batteries and supercapacitors) can be made on the basis of
    heterostructures considered are the basis of high-frequency
    solids with fast ion transport (FIT), i.e. on the basis of solid
    NSs necessary for development of NMST and WNs.
    electrolytes and superionic conductors (SICs) [1]. Advanced
    superionic conductors (ASICs) present the subclass of SICs
    [2-4]. ASICs are solids with specific crystal structure (close to 2. EXPERIMENTAL RESULTS
    optimal for FIT), record high level of ionic conductivity σi
    (>0.1 Ohm-1cm-1 300 K) and small activation energy of FIT Experiments on the creation of ASIC/IE coherent
    heterojunctions at the UHV conditions were carried out at IMT
    (≈0.1 eV). Decades, ASICs are used in supercapacitors -
    RAS in 2004-2005 for the first time. They give the patent
    devices where the energy and charge store in double electric
    important information. The NS laboratory samples with a
    layers (DELs) at the ASIC/IE functional interfaces. The DEL-
    special ASIC/IE heterojunction design and giant values of
    thickness is an order of molecule size. In the existing designs
    capacity density (ρС) and charge density (ρQ) were created. In
    of supercapacitors with liquid electrolytes and volume-
    this paper we report the electric characteristics of three
    distributed electrodes from various kinds of nanostructured
    samples (A, B, C) with the same type of the ASIC/IE interface
    carbon, specific capacities are ≈100 F/g at internal surfaces
    design, and, simultaneously with different compositions and
    ≈107 cm2/g [5], which gives a true ρС value of ~10 μF/cm2.
    crystal structures of ASICs and/or IEs. The electrical
    Values of the same order are characteristic of DELs on
    characteristics of the samples were investigated by means of
    ASIC/electrode heterojunctions [6]. However, liquid
    impulse technique. Π-impulses of voltage from generator were
    electrolytes are not applicable in microelectronics. Solid state
    applied to series circuit of the investigated heterostructure and
    supercapacitors on the basis of ASIC have DEL with real
    load resistance. The dependences of voltage on the
    surface capacity ρС ≈100 μF/cm2 only at low frequencies (f ~
    heterostructures during of charge-discharge process were
    10-2-10-1 Hz) and ρС ~10 μF/cm2 when f >>10-2-10-1 Hz [6]. It
    registered by an oscilloscope.
    looks like a paradox because the mobile ions in the ASIC
    The oscillograms of charge (duration 0.17 ms) – discharge
    crystal structure oscillate between neighbor next
    (in coordinates “voltage-time”) of the experimental
    crystallographic positions with frequencies of ~1010 Hz at 300
    heterostructure (sample A) with a smooth IE (without micro-
    K. The absence of FIT in the area of ASIC/IE functional
    roughness) are presented in Fig.1. On the time intervals ≈0.2
    heterojunctions (in the area of DEL) is a cause of the low
    ms and current densities j ~0.02 -0.3 A/cm2 (300 K) the
    operational frequencies. Distortion and disorder of specific
    heterostructure demonstrates “capacitor-like” behavior with ρС
    ASIC crystal structure at the heterointerfaces lead the delayed
    ≈300 μF/cm2. This value found by the comparison with a
    ion transport.
    charge-discharge curve (oscillogram 5) of conventional
    The microsources with different “energy-power” relation
    capacitor with the known capacity. At the accumulation charge
    are needed for NMST and WN. Fuel cell provide ρE ≈6 times
    density ρQ ≈2.10-4 C/сm2 (oscillogram 2), the transition to
    larger but ρW lower than those of the Li-ion microbatteries [7-
    "battery-like behavior occurs (oscillogram 3). The distinctive
    9]. On the Ragone plot («ρE - ρW») [8]. ASIC based
    features of the "battery-like" behavior are the flat sections
    supercapacitors occupy an intermediate place between Li-ion
    (plateaus) on the charge and discharge curves. In this mode the
    released charge 20 times greater (at a discharge current jр ≈8
    Асm-2) than that of oscillogram 1. So, an equivalent capacitor,
    corresponding to heterostructure, should have specific capacity
    ρС eq ≈6000 μF сm-2.
    Fig.2. Charge-discharge oscillograms of the ASIC/smooth IE
    experimental heterostructure (sample A) at 300 K Horizontal
    scale is 0.5 ms/div.
    1 - heterostructure, charge-discharge through relative resistance 100r,
    discharge current j ≈0,03 A/cm2, "capacitor-like" behavior, ρС ≈300
    μF/cm2 and ρQ ≈6.10-5 C/cm2 ; 2 - heterostructure (10r, j≈0,3 A/cm2,
    "battery-like" behavior, ρQ ≈5.10-4C/cm2); 3 - heterostructure (1r, j ≈2
    Fig.1. Charge-discharge oscillograms of the ASIC/smooth IE
    A/cm2, "battery-like" behavior, ρQ ≈3.10-3 C/cm2); 4 - heterostructure
    experimental heterostructure (sample A) at 300 K in coordinates
    (0,1r, j ≈8 A/cm2, “battery-like” behavior, failure of the charge
    “voltage–time”. Horizontal scale is 0.05 ms/div.
    accumulation mode, ρQ ≈1.10-2 C/cm2 ); 5 - conventional capacitor,
    1 - heterostructure, charge-discharge through relative resistance 100r,
    charge-discharge through 100r; 6 - the form of applied external
    discharge current density j ≈0,02 A/cm2, "capacitor-like" behavior,
    voltage impulse.
    ρС ≈300 μF/cm, ρQ ≈3.10-5 C/cm2; 2 - heterostructure (10r, j ≈0,3
    A/cm2, "capacitor-like" behavior, ρQ ≈2⋅.10-4C/cm2);
    3 - heterostructure (1r, j ≈2 A/cm2, transition from “hybrid” to
    “battery-like” behavior, ρQ ≈5.10-4 C/cm2); 4 - heterostructure (0,1r, jр
    ≈8 A/cm2, “battery-like” behavior, failure of the charge accumulation
    mode); 5 - conventional capacitor (reference capacitor), charge-
    discharge through relative resistance 100r; 6 – the form of impulse of
    applied external voltage to heterostructure.
    Fig.2 shows the charge (1.7 ms) – discharge oscillograms
    for experimental heterostructure (A) at 300 K. The transition
    to “battery-like” behavior occurs within ≈0.5 ms when the
    stored charge density ρQ ≈1.5.10-4 C/сm2 (oscillogram 2) is
    achieved. The data of Fig.1 and Fig.2 suggest the existence of
    the critical value ρQcr ~10-4C/cm2 (300 К). It is of the order of
    ρQ on the densely packed planes (ions of the same sign) in the
    ionic crystals. It can be assumed that the transition to “battery-
    like” behavior occurs when mobile ions leave the contact layer
    of ASIC (nearest to IE). It also follows from Fig.2
    (oscillogram 1 and 4), that ρQ4 ≈170 ρQ1 (ρС ≈300 μF/cm2). So,
    the equivalent capacitor should have ρСeq ≈50000 μF/cm2 for
    the time intervals ~2 ms (f ~1 kHz).
    The oscillograms of charge (18 ms) – discharge of the Fig.3. Charge-discharge oscillograms of the ASIC/smooth IE
    experimental heterostructure ( 300 K, sample А) are given in experimental heterostructure (sample A) at 300 K Horizontal
    Fig.3. The transition to " battery-like" behavior occurs at ρ кр scale is 5 ms/div.
    ≈2.10-4C сm-2 , which corresponds to the data of Fig. 1 and 1 - heterostructure, charge-discharge through relative resistance 100r,
    discharge current j ≈0,03 A/cm2, transition to "battery-like" behavior,
    Fig. 2. For the oscillograms 1 (Fig. 1) and 4 (Fig. 3), the
    ρQ ≈6.10-4 C/cm2; 2 - heterostructure (10r, j ≈0,3 A/cm2, "battery-like"
    values of ρQ differ by 2000 times, so within 20 ms time
    behavior, ρQ ≈5.10-3C/cm2); 3 - heterostructure (1r, j≈2 A/cm2,
    intervals (frequencies ≈100 Hz) the equivalent capacitor
    "battery-like" behavior, ρQ ≈4.10-2 C/cm2); 4 - heterostructure (0,1r, j
    should have ρ eq ≈ 600000 μF сm-2. The same value was ≈5 A/cm2, “battery-like” behavior, failure of the charge accumulation
    obtained by the comparison with an accumulative charge of mode, ρQ ≈6.10-2 C/cm2 ); 5 - conventional capacitor, charge-
    the conventional capacitor (Fig. 3, the oscillogram 5). discharge through 100r; 6 - the form of applied external voltage
    impulse.
    Fig. 4 shows the charge (370 ms) – discharge oscillograms
    for experimental heterostructure (A) at 300 K. The comparison
    of the charge accumulation by the heterostructure within 370
    ms time and by conventional capacitor (Fig.4, oscillograms 3
    and 5) gives ρСeq ≈600000 μF/cm2.
    Fig.5. Charge-discharge oscillograms of the ASIC/smooth IE
    experimental heterostructure (sample A) at 300 K. Horizontal
    scale is 5 μs/div.
    1 - heterostructure, charge-discharge through relative resistance 10r,
    discharge current j∼0,2 A/cm2, "capacitor-like" behavior, ρC ≈100
    μF/cm2; 2 - heterostructure (1r, j ∼0,3 A/cm2, ”capacitor–like”
    behavior); 3 - heterostructure (0.1r, j ≈10 A/cm2, ”capacitor–like”
    behavior); 4 - conventional capacitor, charge-discharge through 10r;
    Fig.4. Charge-discharge oscillograms of the ASIC/smooth IE
    5 - the form of applied external voltage impulse.
    experimental heterostructure (sample A) at 300 K Horizontal
    scale is 100 ms/div.
    1 - heterostructure, charge-discharge through relative resistance 100r,
    discharge current j ≈0,03 A/cm2, "battery-like" behavior, ρQ ≈1.10-2 The influence of temperature on the internal resistance, ρС ,
    C/cm2; 2 - heterostructure (10r, j ≈0,3 A/cm2, "battery-like" behavior ρСэк and ρQ in the experimental heterostructures was
    e, ρQ ≈1.10-1C/cm2); 3 - heterostructure (1r, j ≈2 A/cm2, "battery-like" investigated. The oscillograms of charge (370 ms) –
    behavior, failure of the charge accumulation mode, ρQ ≈3.10-1 C/cm2); discharge of the sample А at 370 K are given in Fig.6.
    4 - heterostructure (0,1r, j ≈6 A/cm2, “battery-like” behavior, failure of
    the charge accumulation mode, ρQ ≈2.4.10-1 C/cm2 ); 5 - conventional
    capacitor, charge-discharge discharge through 100r; 6 - the form of
    applied external voltage impulse.
    The oscillograms of charge ( 20 μs) – discharge of the
    experimental heterostructure ( A) at 300 K are given in Fig.5.
    The comparison of the charge accumulated by the
    heterostructure and by conventional capacitor (Fig.5,
    oscillograms 1 and 4) gives ρС ≈100 μF сm-2. (f~105 Hz).
    Fig.6. Charge-discharge oscillograms of the ASIC/smooth IE
    experimental heterostructure (sample A) at 370 K. Horizontal
    scale is 100 ms/div.
    1- heterostructure, charge-discharge through relative resistance 100r,
    discharge current j ≈0,04 A/cm2, "battery-like" behavior, ρQ ≈1,6.10-2
    C/cm2; 2 - heterostructure (10r, j ≈0,4 A/cm2,"battery-like" behavior
    behavior, ρQ ≈1,6.10-1C/cm2); 3 – heterostructure (1r, j ≈3 A/cm2,
    "battery-like" behavior, the beginning of failure of the charge
    accumulation mode, ρQ ≈1.2 C/cm2); 4 - heterostructure (0,1r, j ≈17
    A/cm2, “battery-like” behavior, failure of the charge accumulation
    mode, ρQ ≈6 C/cm2 ); 5 - conventional capacitor C1, charge-discharge
    through 100r resistor; 6 - conventional capacitor C2=4.3⋅C1 charge-
    discharge through 100r; 7 - the form of applied external voltage
    impulse.
    Fig.7 shows the charge (200 ms) – discharge oscillograms
    of the experimental heterostructure (sample B) with smooth IE
    (at 440 K). The heterostructure displays a distinct “capacitor-
    like’ behavior with ρС >200000 μF/cm2 and φ ≈88о
    (oscillogram 1). The conventional capacitor (oscillogram 5)
    had φ ≈79о under the same conditions. The transition to the
    “battery” behavior occurs at ρQ ~0.1 C/cm2 (oscillogram 2).
    Fig.8. Charge-discharge oscillograms of the ASIC/smooth IE
    experimental heterostructure (sample B) at 300 K. Horizontal
    scale is 50 ms/div.
    1 - heterostructure, charge-discharge through relative resistance 100r,
    discharge current j ≈0.01A/cm2, "capacitor-like" behavior, ρС >
    200000 μF/cm2; 2 - heterostructure (10r, j ≈0.2 A/cm2, "capacitor-
    like" behavior, ρС >200000 μF/cm2); 3 - heterostructure (1r, j ≈4.4
    A/cm2, transition to "battery-like" behavior, ρQ ≈0.7C/cm2, ρС eq ≈2
    F/cm2); 4 - heterostructure (0.1r, j ≈33 A/cm2, “battery-like” behavior,
    beginning of the failure of the charge accumulation mode, ρQ ≈5
    C/cm2, ρС eq ≈15 F/cm2); 5 - heterostructure (0.01r, j ≈90 A/cm2,
    Fig.7. Charge-discharge oscillograms of the ASIC/smooth IE
    “battery-like” behavior, failure of the charge accumulation mode);
    experimental heterostructure (sample B) at 440 K. Horizontal
    6 - conventional capacitor, charge-discharge through 10r;
    scale is 50 ms/div.
    1 - heterostructure, charge-discharge through relative resistance 10r 7 - the form of applied external voltage impulse.
    relative number, discharge current j ≈0.3 A/cm2, "capacitor-like"
    behavior, ρС >200000 μ F/cm2, ρQ ≈6.10-2 C/cm2; 2 - heterostructure The influence of the П-impulse amplitude of applied
    (1r, j ≈5.5 A/cm2, transition to "battery-like" behavior, ρQ ≈1 C/cm2, external voltage on the plateau position at "battery- like"
    ρС eq ≈3.7 F/cm2); 3 – heterostructure (0.1r, j ≈50 A/cm2, "battery-like"
    behavior was investigated. Figures 9, 10 and 11 present the
    behavior, ρQ ≈10 C/cm2, ρС eq ≈33 F/cm2); 4 - heterostructure (0.01r,
    charge-discharge oscillograms obtained at the same sensitivity
    j ≈260 A/cm2, “battery-like” behavior failure of the charge
    (V/div) when the voltage steps of the fixed form were applied
    accumulation mode, ρQ ≈40 C/cm2, ρС eq ≈40 F/cm2);
    to the heterostructure (sample B). The ratio of the maximum
    5 - conventional capacitor, charge-discharge through 10r;
    impulse amplitudes in the figures is 1:2:4. Figure 9 shows
    6 - the form of applied external voltage impulse.
    that an increase of the external voltage amplitude by 2 times
    after the heterostructure transition to “battery-like” behavior
    The oscillograms of charge (200ms) – discharge of the
    does not affect the position of charge (discharge) plateau.
    sample B at 300K are given in Fig.8. At the time intervals
    However, if this transition occurs at the voltage twice as large,
    ≈200 ms and j∼0,3-5 A/cm2 the value ρС>200000 μF/cm2 is
    it is the voltage that determines the position of charge
    achieved. Thus, the obtained experimental data of ρС for
    (discharge) plateaus. The charge plateau voltage virtually
    ASIC/IE heterojunctions with special interface design
    coincides with that of discharge. Similar conclusions can be
    considerably exceed the known experimental values [6,16] and
    drawn from Fig. 11, which shows that an increase in the
    recent theoretical estimations [3,4].
    external voltage amplitude of the step by 2 times (as
    compared to the corresponding step in Fig.10) shifts the
    charge (discharge) plateau to the position corresponding to
    external voltage twice as large.
    Fig.9. Charge-discharge oscillograms of the ASIC/smooth IE Fig.11. Charge-discharge oscillograms of the ASIC/smooth IE
    experimental heterostructure (sample B) at 440 K. Horizontal experimental heterostructure (sample B) at 440 K. Horizontal
    scale is 100 ms/div. scale is 100 ms/div.
    1 - heterostructure, charge-discharge through relative resistance 100r; 1 - heterostructure, charge-discharge through relative resistance 100r;
    2 - heterostructure, charge-discharge through 10r; 2 - heterostructure, charge-discharge through 10r;
    3 – heterostructure charge-discharge through 1r, failure of the charge 3 - heterostructure, charge-discharge through 1r; 4 - heterostructure
    accumulation mode); 4 - the form of applied external voltage impulse. charge-discharge through 0.1r, failure of the charge accumulation
    mode); 5 - conventional capacitor, 100r; 6 - the form of applied
    external voltage impulse.
    The data of figures 9, 10 and 11 prove that no electrochemical
    deposition of a new phase with permanent composition occurs
    in the case of "battery-like" behavior. Apart from samples (A)
    and (B) one more ASIC/IE heterostructure (sample С) was
    investigated. It exhibits the same features of behavior (but
    with worse characteristics) as the sample (A). Fig. 12 shows
    the "battery -like" behavior and failure of the charge
    accumulation mode in the sample (C).
    Fig.10. Charge-discharge oscillograms of the ASIC/smooth IE
    experimental heterostructure (sample B) at 440 K. Horizontal
    scale is 100 ms/div.
    1 - heterostructure, charge-discharge through relative resistance 100r;
    2 - heterostructure, charge-discharge through 10r;
    3 – heterostructure charge-discharge through 1r, failure of the charge
    accumulation mode); 4 - conventional capacitor, 100r;
    5 - the form of applied external voltage impulse.
    Fig.12. Charge-discharge oscillograms of the ASIC/smooth IE
    experimental heterostructure (sample C) at 430 K. Horizontal
    scale is 100 ms/div.
    1 - heterostructure, charge-discharge through relative resistance 100r,
    discharge current j ≈0.03 A/cm2, "battery-like" behavior, ρС eq > 8000
    μF/cm2; 2 - heterostructure (10r, j ≈0.2 A/cm2, failure of the charge
    accumulation mode, ρQ ≈6⋅10-3 C/cm2); 3 - conventional capacitor,
    charge-discharge through 100r; 4 - the form of applied external
    voltage impulse.
    "Patras Conference on Solid State Ionics -Transport
    The similarity of behavior and properties of A, B and C
    Properties" September 14 -18, 2004, P. 66.
    heterostructures having the same ASIC/IE heterojunctions
    [3] A.L. Despotuli, A.V. Andreeva, B. Rambabu. Nano- and
    design but differing in chemical composition of ASIC and/or
    microsystem engineering 2, 5 (2005).
    IE structures strongly suggest the universal character of
    [4] A.L. Despotuli, A.V. Andreeva, B. Rambabu. Ionics 11, 1
    “battery-like” behavior. The following mechanism of charge
    (2005).
    accumulation can be proposed: (1) accumulation of a threshold
    charge density ρQcrit on the ASIC/IE interface; (2) electron [5] Ch. Emmenegger, Ph. Mauron, P. Sudan, P. Wenger, V.
    transfer from the ASIC valence band to the anode in strong Hermann, R. Gallay, A. Zuttel. J. Power Sources 124, 321
    electric field (order of molecular field) and simultaneous (2003).
    [6] S. Bredikhin, T. Hattory, M. Ishigame. Phys.Rev. B 50,
    escape of positively charged mobile ions to the cathode, to
    2444 (1994).
    produce neutral complex point defects on the basis of holes
    and cation vacancies , and (3) distribution of the neutral defect [7] S. Roundy, D. Steingart, L. Frechette, P.K. Wright, J.
    Rabaey “Power sources for wireless networks” // Proc 1st
    zone with the defect concentration determined by an applied
    European Workshop on Wireless Sensor Networks (EWSN’
    external voltage) into the depth of ASIC volume via self-
    04), Berlin, Germany, Jan. 19-21, 2004.
    organization. In the case of “battery-like” behavior defect
    [8] T. Christen, M.W. Carlen. J. Power Sourses 91, 210
    concentrations in the ASIC subsurface layers can be detected
    (2000).
    by optical methods.
    [9] J.B. Bates, N.J. Dudney, B. Neudecker, A. Ueda, C.D.
    The experimental observation of supergiant capacity
    Evans. Solid State Ionics 135, 33 (2000).
    phenomenon on the investigated heterostructures with special
    interface design can be connected with formation of the [10] A.L. Despotuli, A.V. Andreeva. Double-layer thin-film
    ordered single-layer new phase containing alternating IE- supercapacitors for nano-electro-mechanical systems (NEMS)
    cations and ASIC-anions at the interface. The great ρQ value // Proc. IARP International workshop "Micro Robots, Micro
    may be achieved by fractal surface geometry. Machines, Micro Systems", Moscow, April 24-25. 2003. P.
    129-141.
    [11] A.L. Despotuli, A.V. Andreeva. Chemistry Preprint
    Archive 2003, # 6, 283 (2003).
    3. CONCLUSION
    [12] A.L. Despotuli, A.V. Andreeva. Chemistry Preprint
    The discovery of giant and supergiant capacitor phenomena Archive 2003, # 9, 4 (2003).
    as well as “battery-like” behavior in the special designed [13] A.L. Despotuli, A.V. Andreeva, Microsystem engineering
    ASIC/IE heterojunctions is a fact of a great practical interest. 11, 2 (2003).
    Is there new physics on horizon? [14] A.L. Despotuli, A.V. Andreeva, Microsystem engineering
    12, 2 (2003).
    [15] A.L. Despotuli, V.I. Nikolaichic. Solid State Ionics 60,
    * Electronic address: despot@ipmt-hpm.ac.ru 275 (1993).
    [16] F.A. Karamov. Superionic conductors. Heyerostructures
    [1] B.B. Owens. J. Power Sources 90, 2 (2000). and elements of functional electronics on their base (Moscow,
    [2] A.L. Despotuli, A.V. Andreeva, B. Rambabu. "Nanoionics Science Press, 2002).
    of Advanced Superionic Conductors"// in: Book of Abstracts


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  3. #2 Re: Thousandfold inprovement in supercapacitors? 
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    Right off the top they mention scales. Air might be between the scales. If you create a layering effect, of a scale and then air, scale and then air.

    Yes you can get some wild dielectric substances.

    However a capacitor is a capacitor. The formula for it will not change. Just the input for dielectric strength will change.

    The only problem I see, is that when the dielectric fails and it will, now you have some serious power to contend with. A regular capacitor is already often dangerous.


    Sincerely,


    William McCormick


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  4. #3  
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    William,
    Could you explain more precisely
    what do you mean under formula of
    capacitor that will not change?
    Doesn't capacitance of it largely
    depend on dielectric permittivity value?
    I thought this is directly proportional...
    It seems also they mentioned precise
    numbers of capacitance: 10 μFcm for
    usual super capacitors and 200.000 μFcm for
    experimental value.This is 20.000 times larger
    if I no make mistake.
    What concerns to posibility of breakdown,you may have
    few of them and all incased in shielding made
    of Kevlar.For example if you use them as a
    power source in electrical vehicle.
    Also I wander if we could create some type
    of inherintly safe capacitor which could never
    explode.Maybe it's better to store electric field in electretes rather then in usual type
    capacitor?Or use some quantum mechanics
    effects?Batteries are more power dense
    then usual super capacitors,yet they never
    breakdown.That's the key.
    Thank you for you interest and sorry for my
    English.
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  5. #4  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley514
    William,
    Could you explain more precisely
    what do you mean under formula of
    capacitor that will not change?
    Doesn't capacitance of it largely
    depend on dielectric permittivity value?
    I thought this is directly proportional...
    It seems also they mentioned precise
    numbers of capacitance: 10 μFcm for
    usual super capacitors and 200.000 μFcm for
    experimental value.This is 20.000 times larger
    if I no make mistake.
    What concerns to posibility of breakdown,you may have
    few of them and all incased in shielding made
    of Kevlar.For example if you use them as a
    power source in electrical vehicle.
    Also I wander if we could create some type
    of inherintly safe capacitor which could never
    explode.Maybe it's better to store electric field in electretes rather then in usual type
    capacitor?Or use some quantum mechanics
    effects?Batteries are more power dense
    then usual super capacitors,yet they never
    breakdown.That's the key.
    Thank you for you interest and sorry for my
    English.
    I had a little trouble posting for a couple days sorry I did not get back to you.

    That is what I meant actually that the dielectric will have to be much thinner yet more powerful. As you do that, you increase the possibility of failure.

    Although technically the dielectric can take it on a scientific level. Physically that small a distance in a very thin dielectric, opens up other avenues for failure, in the real world.



    Sincerely,


    William McCormick
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    Hi,
    I thought that if we get better dielectric
    we don't need to decrease space between
    plates necessary.This is only one way to improve capacistance.Other way is just
    to increase number of charges on plates.
    Maybe I was wrong.
    Also I've read that if we decrease thickness
    of dielectric it could even decrease posibility
    of breakdown not increase it.
    Even if they would need to make dielectric
    thin and posibility of failure will increase,probably they would need to stack
    those miniature capacitors in large arrays
    with additional isolation between each of them
    so if one capacitor will fail it won't affect others.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley514
    Hi,
    I thought that if we get better dielectric
    we don't need to decrease space between
    plates necessary.This is only one way to improve capacistance.Other way is just
    to increase number of charges on plates.
    Maybe I was wrong.
    Also I've read that if we decrease thickness
    of dielectric it could even decrease posibility
    of breakdown not increase it.
    Even if they would need to make dielectric
    thin and posibility of failure will increase,probably they would need to stack
    those miniature capacitors in large arrays
    with additional isolation between each of them
    so if one capacitor will fail it won't affect others.

    The formula for a capacitor states that the higher the ohms of the dielectric, the less the capacitor can hold.

    More distance between the plates, causes the capacitor to be less of a capacitor.

    More surface area of the plates, the more capacitance.

    To make a working capacitor you are going to need a high dielectric strength material, that is a good insulator. Or high frequency or a tiny bit of static electricity will permeate the dielectric and cause failure. And also the plates would neutralize each other with a lower ohm dielectric.

    So we are stuck with a set of insulators to choose from. Since feasible insulators, are so close in range, the amount of difference is not going to make to much difference.

    If though you could create a super insulator that was twice as thin, using scales. Yet was not as good of an insulator, then it might work at least in the lab. I do not know about out in the field.

    Dielectric and insulator are almost the same thing. However a dielectric although just a good insulator can make an awesome capacitor dielectric.

    Dielectric although meaning an insulator, works in reverse of an insulator when talking about capacitors. The worse an insulator the dielectric is the better the capacitor dielectric it makes.

    I was hit with the energy of an exploding capacitor, that was feeding a magnetic field. I felt the energy inside my head. So exploding capacitors are not a fun thing.



    Sincerely,


    William McCormick
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    Quote Originally Posted by William McCormick
    The formula for a capacitor states that the higher the ohms of the dielectric, the less the capacitor can hold.
    And a transformer is something that changes shape...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Home200
    Quote Originally Posted by William McCormick
    The formula for a capacitor states that the higher the ohms of the dielectric, the less the capacitor can hold.
    And a transformer is something that changes shape...

    The formula is C=K times A/d

    C is capacitance in micro farads. K is the dielectric strength of the dielectric material. The value of "K" if air is used is 0.0885 ÷ 10^6

    The value of K if mica is used is (0.3 to 0.7) ÷ 10^6

    So you can see that if you raise the ohms the capacitor loses capacity in farads.

    But if you decrease the distance between the capacitor plates, then it gains capacity in farads.

    So you are stuck within in a range. Unless you start to use other things perhaps noble gases or electrolytes. But then you risk other failures.

    "A" is the area of the plates facing one another. And "d" is the distance between plates.



    Sincerely,


    William McCormick
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    William,

    If I hear raise the "ohms" one more time I'm going to gag. It's resistance, NOT ohms!!! Ohms is a measurement of resistance, raising the "ohms" shows a lack of education and intelligence. For someone who professes to know more then any modern scientist you sure the hell don't show it in your vocabulary.

    Nuff said.
    Pleased to meet you. Hope you guess my name
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    Dielectric strength is measured in volts per millimeter, not ohms. The K in William's formula is not dielectric strength but electric permittivity and has the units of farads per meter. Permittivity is the dielectric constant multiplied by the permittivity of free space. Dielectric constant is a ratio which has no units.

    http://webphysics.davidson.edu/physl..._constant.html

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_permittivity
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    Quote Originally Posted by (In)Sanity
    William,

    If I hear raise the "ohms" one more time I'm going to gag. It's resistance, NOT ohms!!! Ohms is a measurement of resistance, raising the "ohms" shows a lack of education and intelligence. For someone who professes to know more then any modern scientist you sure the hell don't show it in your vocabulary.

    Nuff said.

    I believe I was discussing the formula, and changing the ohms of the dielectric, input into the formula, to achieve a different result. There is no actual resistance, just the hypothetical higher ohms input into the formula.

    I was saying or at least I thought I said, that by raising the ohms the formula dictates that the capacitor will be weaker. Sure by raising the ohms you will be raising the resistance. However the formula is showing that as the ohms go up the capacitor is weaker.

    If I use a different material of unspecified size, that has a higher ohm value, it will raise the ohms input into the formula, by some unspecified amount.

    Air at 3/32ths of an inch, one millimeter by one millimeter, is approximately equal to a millimeter square column of mercury 1,197,740,112.994 centimeters long, when conducting electricity. Without an ARC, or vacuum. Or a one by one millimeter column of mercury, 7,186.44 miles long.

    We basically approximate it.

    Ohms and conduction are measured with a 1x1 millimeter column of mercury. But since we cannot do that with everything, especially dielectrics/insulators. And since air, can be effected drastically by humidity, daytime or nighttime testing, and the location the test is being done. We approximate. Or introduce a new formula based on a new standard.

    Or we use some other method for creating the value of the resistance of the dielectric.
    All dielectrics are insulators, they just run in the opposite order of insulating value and dielectric capacitor strength.





    Sincerely,


    William McCormick
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    Quote Originally Posted by William McCormick
    I believe I was discussing the formula, and changing the ohms of the dielectric, input into the formula, to achieve a different result.
    Incorrect. You were talking about changing the resistance of the dielectric, expressed in ohms, that you input into the formula. You were not changing the ohms. If I extend a flower bed in my garden by three feet I do not say I increased the feet of my flower bed. I say I increased its length.
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    It appears William has never been wrong on a single post during his entire visit to this forum. It amazes me how one man can be so perfect.

    I really feel he's just a troll who enjoys trolling. His next ban will be forever.
    Pleased to meet you. Hope you guess my name
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    I would be glad to know explanation to the following statements:
    Does anyone have explanation how extra charge could be stored in
    ion vacancies and neutral point defects?Why it possibly allow to store
    more charge than usual way of charge storage?Could this method be
    scaled up?

    The following mechanism of charge
    accumulation can be proposed: (1) accumulation of a threshold
    charge density ρQcrit on the ASIC/IE interface; (2) electron transfer from the ASIC valence band to the anode in strong electric field (order of molecular field) and simultaneous escape of positively charged mobile ions to the cathode, to
    produce neutral complex point defects on the basis of holes
    and cation vacancies , and (3) distribution of the neutral defect
    zone with the defect concentration determined by an applied
    external voltage into the depth of ASIC volume via self-
    organization. In the case of “battery-like” behavior defect
    concentrations in the ASIC subsurface layers can be detected
    by optical methods.
    Antislavery
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