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Thread: so that vs. in a way that

  1. #1 so that vs. in a way that 
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    GREETINGS

    upon seeing the link provided, you will learn the fact that so that has been written in two place, and with two different meaning.

    I am wondering what is the difference between these two so that's

    ...

    And, could we use the following adverbs interchangeably? if so, when? if not when?

    in this way that

    in doing so

    so that

    in doing so VS. in a way that - WordReference Forums


    Last edited by nima_persian; September 20th, 2014 at 11:43 AM.
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  3. #2  
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    Battison suggests that even when writers
    want to produce a document that is easily understood by readers, they may have
    difficulty in doing so.



    Battison suggests that even when writers
    want to produce a document that is easily understood by readers, in this way that they may have
    difficulty.

    Would you please elaborate the difference between these?


    Last edited by nima_persian; September 20th, 2014 at 11:44 AM. Reason: i made some mistakes
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  4. #3  
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    Quote Originally Posted by nima_persian View Post


    Battison suggests that even when writers
    want to produce a document that is easily understood by readers, in a way that they may have
    difficulty.

    I think you have made a mistake in copying that sentence because it does not make sense as it stands.
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  5. #4  
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    what about? in such a way that
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  6. #5  
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    Quote Originally Posted by nima_persian View Post
    Untitled

    GREETINGS

    upon seeing the link provided, you will learn the fact that so that has been written in two place, and with two different meaning.
    I wasn't able to download this file. My anti-virus blocked the site. Why not just post the text that you have a question about?

    I am wondering what is the difference between these two so that's

    ...

    And, could we use the following adverbs interchangeably? if so, when? if not when?

    in a way that

    in doing so

    so that

    in doing so VS. in a way that - WordReference Forums
    These all have slightly different meanings, as discussed in the second link.
    In doing so:
    Bob walked his dog. In doing so, he exercised.
    The first phrase in doing so gives the impression that effect of his first action (walking the dog) wasn't at all intended to cause the second. He exercised, but this occurred only as a side benefit.
    I agree with the explanation. "In doing so" is used when the action done is not the primary purpose. The primary purpose was walking the dog. The exercise was a side benefit.

    In this way:
    Kathy finished watering her plants and set down the hose. In this way, the hose would be close by for next time.
    In this example, the phrase in this way is used. It is implied that Kathy desired the results described in the second sentence. She wants the hose close by. However, it isn't a very strong desire. If her husband comes and stores the hose, she will just get it out again.

    So that:
    Fred went to Law school so that he could get a degree.
    In this example, Fred performed the first action (law school) expressly for the purpose of achieving the second action (get a degree). This was his entire goal.
    I'll change out the last example with a different phrase for clarity:
    Fred went to Law school. In doing so, he could get a degree.
    If you said this, a listener might be confused. They might ask "Did he want the degree?" or "Did he have another reason for going?" Maybe Fred's main purpose was to party with college students and blow off classes.
    I agree with these explanations. "In doing so" would be used where the effect described is not the primary purpose of the action. Her primary purpose is walking the dog, but in doing so she exercised. The exercise is an effect, not the primary purpose.

    "So that" is used when the effect of the action is the desired purpose, and there aren't any other side effects being described.
    "In this way" means that she did put the hose there with the intent of having it available for the next time. But, it does not imply a strong purpose. Her main purpose is watering the plants. She has to put the hose down somewhere, and she wants it in a handy location, so she puts it down near the plants.
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    Bob walked his dog. In this way that Bob exercised.

    Bob walked his dog. In doing so Bob exercised.

    Thanks. But, what about these? what is the difference between these?
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  9. #8  
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    In order/so as + to-infinitive
    Tii talk about the purpose of an action we can use in order/so as + to-infinitive:
    H He took the course in order to get a better job.
    □ Trees are being planted by the roadside so as to reduce traffic noise. In spoken English in particular ir is much more common simply to use a to-infinitive without 'in order' or 'so as' to express the same meaning:
    n He took the course to get a better job.
    We rarely use just 'not + ro-inlimtive\ but instead use so as not to or in order not to:
    H He kept the speech vague in order not to comma himself to one side or the other, (not
    ...vague not to commit himself...) CI The land was bought quickly so as not to delay the building work, (not ...quickly not to
    delay...)
    However, in contrastive sentences we can use not + to-infinitive, but + to-infinitive as in:
    n 1 came to see you nut (in order/so as) to complain, but (in order/so as) to apologise. Notice thai we can put in order/so as before the to-infinitives in sentences like this.
    In order that and so that
    We also use in order that and so that to talk about a purpose. Compare: n She stayed at work late in order/so as to complete the report, and ■1 She stayed at work late in order that/so that she could complete the report, (not ...in order that/so that to complete the report.) So that is more common than in order that, and is used in less formal situations. Note that informally we can leave out that alter so, but we always include it after in order.
    A present tense verb in the main clause is usually followed by a present tense verb (or a modal with present or future reference - can, will, etc.) in the clause beginning in order that/so that. A past tense verb m the main clause is usually followed by a past tense verb (or a modal with past reference - could, would, etc.) in the clause beginning in order that/so that. Modal verbs are very often used after in order that/so that:
    n Regular checks are made in order that safety standards are maintained.
    H Advice is given in order that students can choose the best course.
    O Did you give up you job so that you could take care of your mother?
    n 1 hid the presents so that Jackie wouldn't find them.
    Such that and in such a way that; such...that
    In formal contexts, such as academic writing, we can use such that to introduce a result:
    n The model was designed such that the value of x could be calculated. (= 'in a way that has the result that...'; or ...in order that...; or ...so that...) Less formally we can also use in such a way that or in such a way as + to-infinitive with a similar meaning:
    T The advertisement is printed in such a way that two very different pictures can be seen depending on how you look at it.
    0 In fact, the tax cuts have been designed in such a way as to leave out the very people it is supposed to help.
    We can also use such + noun phrase + that to introduce a result:



    My biggest problem is bold parts, as you can see there is two so thats. Are they interchangeable?
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  10. #9  
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    Quote Originally Posted by nima_persian View Post
    Bob walked his dog. In this way that Bob exercised.

    Bob walked his dog. In doing so Bob exercised.

    Thanks. But, what about these? what is the difference between these?
    The part I have bolded is incorrect grammatically.Do you mean :In this way Bob exercised ?
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  11. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by nima_persian View Post
    what about? in such a way that
    This would be a correct sentence :

    Battison suggests that even when writers want to produce a document that is easily understood by readers,they write in such a way that they may have
    difficulty.

    But is that the sentence you were trying to copy (from a book?) ?
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  12. #11  
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    1. Bob walked his dog. In this way / in such a way that/ in such a way/ in this waythat Bob exercised.

    2.Bob walked his dog. In doing so Bob exercised.

    I am wondering which one of the bold parts are correct. And, after you correct me, would you tell me what is the difference between 1 and 2?
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  13. #12  
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    This is the original: Bob walked his dog. In doing so Bob exercised.
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  14. #13  
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    As you see there is two so that. What is the difference between these?
    We also use in order that and
    so that to talk about a purpose. Compare: n She stayed at work late in order/so as to complete the report, and ■1 She stayed at work late in order that/so that she could complete the report, (not ...in order that/so that to complete the report.) So that is more common than in order that, and is used in less formal situations. Note that informally we can leave out that alter so, but we always include it after in order.
    A present tense verb in the main clause is usually followed by a present tense verb (or a modal with present or future reference - can, will, etc.) in the clause beginning in order that/so that. A past tense verb m the main clause is usually followed by a past tense verb (or a modal with past reference - could, would, etc.) in the clause beginning in order that/so that. Modal verbs are very often used after in order that/so that:
    n Regular checks are made in order that safety standards are maintained.
    H Advice is given in order that students can choose the best course.
    O Did you give up you job so that you could take care of your mother?
    n 1 hid the presents so that Jackie wouldn't find them.
    Such that and in such a way that; such...that
    In formal contexts, such as academic writing, we can use such that to introduce a result:
    n The model was designed such that the value of x could be calculated. (= 'in a way that has the result that...'; or ...in order that...; or ...so that...) Less formally we can also use in such a way that or in such a way as + to-infinitive with a similar meaning:
    T The advertisement is printed in such a way that two very different pictures can be seen depending on how you look at it.
    0 In fact, the tax cuts have been designed in such a way as to leave out the very people it is supposed to help.
    Last edited by nima_persian; September 20th, 2014 at 01:56 PM.
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  15. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by nima_persian View Post
    1. Bob walked his dog. In this way / in such a way that/ in such a way/ in this waythat Bob exercised.

    2.Bob walked his dog. In doing so Bob exercised.

    I am wondering which one of the bold parts are correct. And, after you correct me, would you tell me what is the difference between 1 and 2?
    (a) Bob walked his dog. In this way Bob exercised.
    (b)Bob walked his dog. In such a way that he exercised
    (c)Bob walked his dog .In such a way Bob exercised.

    (d) Bob walked his dog.In this way that Bob exercised.

    (a) ,(b) ,and (c) are possible but (d) is incorrect.

    (1) means that Bob used the walk as a way to exercise.

    (2) means that when Bob walked the dog he also exercised .

    As the saying goes (in 2) ,he killed two birds with one stone -he walked the dog and he also exercised.

    In (1) there is an intention to use the dog walk to take an exercise.
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    what about in doing so? I am wondering its difference with a b and c.
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  17. #16  
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    Well I described "in doing so" as above in post #14 -"( 2) means that when Bob walked the dog he also exercised .".

    "In doing so" tells you that 2 things are happening at the same time but one does not
    cause the other as an intention .

    Yes , Bob did exercise because he walked the dog but he did not walk the dog with the purpose of getting exercise. It was a (lucky?) result.

    It is a neutral way of expressing things (I might say )
    Last edited by geordief; September 21st, 2014 at 03:42 AM.
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  18. #17  
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    First thanks.

    Eventually, is there any difference between these?


    He had to work overtime. In a way, he could get almost enough money to send his son to school.

    He had to work overtime. In doing so, he could get almost enough money to send his son to school.

    He had to work overtime. In this way he could get almost enough money to send his son to school.

    He had to work overtime. In such a way that he could get almost enough money to send his son to school.

    He had to work overtime. In such a way he could get almost enough money to send his son to school.
    Last edited by nima_persian; September 21st, 2014 at 03:17 AM.
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  19. #18  
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    Yes they are all practically identical except the 3rd one:

    He had to work overtime. In such a way that he could get almost enough money to send his son to school.

    You see, the second half it is not actually a sentence. I would be tempted to rewrite it as :

    He had to work overtime -in such a way that he could get almost enough money to send his son to school.

    I mean it is one sentence overall and not 2 separate sentences as in the 3 other examples.

    Notice I said "practically identical". There are always small differences but it is not always necessary to learn them all as they will probably become apparent as you come across them or need to use them -and if they do not it would not be important to most people I think.
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  20. #19  
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    As a native speaker, could you think of any circumstance or sentence that we couldn't substitute one of the following phrases over the other? I yet to get the difference between these.

    in doing so

    in a way that

    in such a way that

    in a way
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  21. #20  
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    Well ,either of those 2 phrases that end with"that" is incomplete and needs to be finished. The other 2 phrases can be used to end a sentence (but it is not obligatory).

    I think that the grammatical term for "that" (in those cases ) is that it is a "conjunction" ,meaning that it can join two phrases.

    Conjunction (grammar) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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