Notices
Results 1 to 7 of 7
Like Tree2Likes
  • 1 Post By adelady
  • 1 Post By adelady

Thread: Pedagogics: Never thought Id need to ask for help here, but here goes...

  1. #1 Pedagogics: Never thought Id need to ask for help here, but here goes... 
    Forum Ph.D. Raziell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    928
    Im looking for arguments as to what criticism came from a sociocultural viewpoint - to Piagets theory of learning / development.

    My opinion from reading a few books is that:

    Piaget's research was ethnocentric. He applied his research mostly (if not only) to children in a western/singular culture.
    For example: A child in another culture might learn things alot earlier in life (opposed to him claiming learning only applies at certain age differentials)

    The problem is, I cant find much else. My assignment is to apply criticism ONLY from a sociocultural standpoint.

    Could someone with knowledge of pedagogics give me some clues, or advice on good sources that I could read up on?


    A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it. - David Stevens
    Reply With Quote  
     

  2.  
     

  3. #2  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    city of wine and roses
    Posts
    6,225
    Only from a socio-cultural viewpoint.

    Perhaps this is a not very subtle hint in the direction of Vygotsky. Can't give you any good sources, Vygotsky's stuff was available in English from the 30s onwards but more or less ignored until the 70s. It was after this that people started putting them side by side. I've never taken much notice but there are some scholarly papers on this. It'd be a start anyway. The more you read, the more names and ideas you'll find. I also noticed some "Vygotsky" authored papers from the 70s - maybe there's a relative - he died in the 30s.

    (Just for fun, I asked my husband about this. He reported his slack-jawed astonishment one day when he was running some standard Piaget stuff past the Ed Psych students. They took the sausage of plasticine and rolled it out flat. He asked the standard question - is there more or less plasticine now? - and one 19 year old adult said there was less. Which sort of wrecked his usual response to the correct answer - a laugh and a warning that if you do this with small children they'll say there's less. So he uummed and aahed a bit and went on with the next part of the tutorial.)


    Raziell likes this.
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
    "nature is like a game of Jenga; you never know which brick you pull out will cause the whole stack to collapse" Lucy Cooke
    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #3  
    Forum Ph.D. Raziell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    928
    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    Only from a socio-cultural viewpoint.

    Perhaps this is a not very subtle hint in the direction of Vygotsky. Can't give you any good sources, Vygotsky's stuff was available in English from the 30s onwards but more or less ignored until the 70s. It was after this that people started putting them side by side. I've never taken much notice but there are some scholarly papers on this. It'd be a start anyway. The more you read, the more names and ideas you'll find. I also noticed some "Vygotsky" authored papers from the 70s - maybe there's a relative - he died in the 30s.

    (Just for fun, I asked my husband about this. He reported his slack-jawed astonishment one day when he was running some standard Piaget stuff past the Ed Psych students. They took the sausage of plasticine and rolled it out flat. He asked the standard question - is there more or less plasticine now? - and one 19 year old adult said there was less. Which sort of wrecked his usual response to the correct answer - a laugh and a warning that if you do this with small children they'll say there's less. So he uummed and aahed a bit and went on with the next part of the tutorial.)
    Not sure if my english reading comprehension fails me here but... the first bolded part; I should definitely look more into Vygotsky then?

    Good laugh from that last part Im sure the student was trolling/messing with him?

    If my assignment was to find criticism to Piaget it wouldve been easy. But criticism of Piaget from a socio-cultural perspective really caught me offguard. I have some stuff on my curriculum that mentions this, but not enough to give a 1500 word reply. So if anyone could help with some more clues Id really appreciate it.

    The cultural nature of human development by Barbara Rogoff is the last book Im reading now from my curriculum, so Im sitting here praying that something will come up.
    A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it. - David Stevens
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #4  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    city of wine and roses
    Posts
    6,225
    Vygotsky was really focused on the idea of development being linked to activity of the child in question. Piaget was a bit dogmatic about the idea that his schema for development was more or less inevitable and unalterable - very much in the style of other writers of the late 19th, first half of 20th century. Whether they'd made up the whole thing by "thinking" or by personal observation, they were a bit inclined to the idea that This Is The Answer.

    I'm not so sure about that student. It's a classic example of perception and learning being inextricably linked. Conservation of quantity is a requirement for intellectual development, but there's no guarantee that the concepts will be securely and reliably acquired, let alone consistently displayed. If they're not taught and reinforced - at the appropriate time (thank you Piaget) and thereafter - you can finish up with very poor judgment of such things.
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
    "nature is like a game of Jenga; you never know which brick you pull out will cause the whole stack to collapse" Lucy Cooke
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #5  
    Forum Ph.D. Raziell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    928
    Thanks again for the reply Adelady

    So far Im thinking (Including from your contribution): Piaget was looking at the development as more static/unchangeable with more focus on biological disposition. Placing too much focus in an individual's ability to learn biologically rather than socially. + Too much on the learning of an individual (seperated from group) rather than focus on group activity/socialization (Excluding too much of the fact that humans are social creatures, and that development has cultural and social factors that are as important).

    Side question: Did I use the correct form of: "individual's". Using the ` sign correctly? I think its called possessive marker, Im not sure. English is not my native.
    A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it. - David Stevens
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #6  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    city of wine and roses
    Posts
    6,225
    Yup, you got the possessive apostrophe exactly right.

    I think you've got Piaget about right, He really thought that his observations and the conclusions he drew from them meant that children always developed in this one particular way. That his findings were universal.

    I found it super difficult to read his stuff. The conventions for writing papers and books were different then and his presentation is desperately hard to follow. Anyway, it was a profound set of insights into intellectual development. He simply didn't take into account the amount of teaching by osmosis and encouragement of successful understanding that would have gone on for most children in most households. It wasn't just the growing child's brain doing it regardless of stimulus and support.
    Raziell likes this.
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
    "nature is like a game of Jenga; you never know which brick you pull out will cause the whole stack to collapse" Lucy Cooke
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #7  
    Forum Ph.D. Raziell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    928
    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    Yup, you got the possessive apostrophe exactly right.

    I think you've got Piaget about right, He really thought that his observations and the conclusions he drew from them meant that children always developed in this one particular way. That his findings were universal.

    I found it super difficult to read his stuff. The conventions for writing papers and books were different then and his presentation is desperately hard to follow. Anyway, it was a profound set of insights into intellectual development. He simply didn't take into account the amount of teaching by osmosis and encouragement of successful understanding that would have gone on for most children in most households. It wasn't just the growing child's brain doing it regardless of stimulus and support.
    Thx again. Ive come across some stuff in the book now that really nails it

    I will post my assignment here when it is done and when I get my grade in the end of May. Maybe it can help someone comming across the forum later with a similar question or assignment.

    That said, any further tips and advice is always welcome if anyone feels like chipping in.
    A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it. - David Stevens
    Reply With Quote  
     

Similar Threads

  1. Just a thought.
    By rock in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: October 5th, 2011, 07:40 PM
  2. A thought.
    By Max Time Taken in forum Philosophy
    Replies: 67
    Last Post: July 5th, 2011, 11:15 AM
  3. Just a thought
    By eldhosepg in forum Physics
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: June 12th, 2011, 03:58 PM
  4. Just a thought..
    By rpgking101 in forum Physics
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: December 5th, 2009, 06:03 PM
  5. just a thought
    By vince in forum Physics
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: October 7th, 2009, 07:02 PM
Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •