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Thread: Reform in education

  1. #1 Reform in education 
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    Our education must make big reform.The aim of reform must be to make geniuses.For me everybody has a talent and potential to be genius but the problem is how to find it.The problem is that pupil can not make proper decision what to learn in higher education.The problem is that good knowledge in nature science do not mean that the pupil will be good if the pupil learn nature science in higher education.Contrary i think that he can make big achievement in humanitarian science even the pupil have no idea of them.Having no idea of humanitarian science will make pupil more critical to what teachers will teach him.I say that pupil make wrong decisions learning what they think they are good at because being little their knowledge is smattering of.For that reason must be made tests with which if the pupil is good in nature science but having no idea of humanitarian science we must direct him toward humanitarian science and vice versa.


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  3. #2  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by georgi_zlatev View Post
    Our education must make big reform.
    "Our"?
    Who, specifically?

    The aim of reform must be to make geniuses.For me everybody has a talent and potential to be genius but the problem is how to find it.
    So you subscribe to "genius is made, not born"?
    Evidence please.

    The problem is that pupil can not make proper decision what to learn in higher education.The problem is that good knowledge in nature science do not mean that the pupil will be good if the pupil learn nature science in higher education.
    And how do you propose to correct this?

    Contrary i think that he can make big achievement in humanitarian science even the pupil have no idea of them.
    What?
    How do you think that big achievements can be made by people that have no idea of the subject?

    Having no idea of humanitarian science will make pupil more critical to what teachers will teach him.
    Really?
    How do you critique (in any worthwhile fashion) a subject of which you are ignorant?

    I say that pupil make wrong decisions learning what they think they are good at because being little their knowledge is smattering of.For that reason must be made tests with which if the pupil is good in nature science but having no idea of humanitarian science we must direct him toward humanitarian science and vice versa.
    And what about those who have no interest in "humanitarian science"?
    You are aware that science, generally, is suffering a shortage of students (at least in the West)?


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  4. #3  
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    Education should make one able to earn livelihood. Education should also bind people. Education should not be competitive but assimilitative.
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  5. #4  
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    What the heck is "humanitarian science?"
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  6. #5  
    Forum Senior MoonCanvas's Avatar
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    Cut funding for special education in public schools. It causes more problems then it helps, take for instance the state of Ohio's high rate of special education students not making it to college.

    And my personal experiences in special education. Terrible, annoying class of 2 bears + 3 bears mathematics and 1st grade spelling courses in 3rd grade. Cut funding, put it into universal/free education(including college).
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  7. #6  
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    Ok well first off the bat I would certainly support the idea of universally free education upto and inclusive of college/university level.
    Unfortunately here in England tuition fees have continued to rise and are now at the maximum £9000 cap for most of the best courses at even
    ordinary universities, whilst for Scottish students tuition remains free, something for which the Scots should be rightly proud.

    What interests me more though is your views on scrapping special education in public schools, why do you feel challenged or disabled
    students would fair better in a seperate enviroment and wouldn't this ultimately make it harder for them to adjust to college life?
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    Forum Senior MoonCanvas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Ok well first off the bat I would certainly support the idea of universally free education upto and inclusive of college/university level.
    Unfortunately here in England tuition fees have continued to rise and are now at the maximum £9000 cap for most of the best courses at even
    ordinary universities, whilst for Scottish students tuition remains free, something for which the Scots should be rightly proud.

    What interests me more though is your views on scrapping special education in public schools, why do you feel challenged or disabled
    students would fair better in a seperate enviroment and wouldn't this ultimately make it harder for them to adjust to college life?
    Quite franky, I was a special education student because the boundaries weren't deep enough. Special education has students disabled enough as to where education is nearly futile, and also has a group of students who are too smart to be in the class. Almost none of my former classmates in the latter group ever took college and it's been nearly 4 years since the end of high school. If you go to school then you should be getting a proper education.

    My experience in special ed was an absolute nightmare. I started 1st grade in special day class only because I was shy(being shy is an "autism" trait), and I was kept in it for a very long time until 8th grade. It was a vicious cycle; special ed had low functioning students, weakening my social skills enough as to whenever I went to normal classes, I'd have one mishap and would be put back in. Not only that but I wasn't learning what the other kids were, and even though I had an aptitude for math was falling behind in knowledge of mathematical concepts(fractions, negative numbers, ect).

    And the students whom special education is supposedly meant for, mainly those with minor intellectual disability, live with an inferiority complex as a result of their special treatment. I've actually kept in contact with them(though extremely sparingly) which is how I know this. But think of all the bright people who can't go to universities just because they don't have enough money, it's almost criminal. Sacrificing special education is necessary, especially if you consider the contributions university students can make if they're given an equal opportunity. There may even be a Nobel recipient among them.

    Special education is counter-productive.
    Last edited by MoonCanvas; July 17th, 2013 at 08:43 AM.
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  9. #8  
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    Ok it seems you had a bad experience and it set you back and has affected your confidence, I think you've been let down some what by your teachers here. You should have been given extra support and given tasks in which you could have been successful and thus your enthusiasm and confidence restored. In this way you could have then focused on catching up with the rest of your classmates and working at that level.

    I don't think the idea of having special education in mainstream schools is wrong, I think it actually helps to be more integrated, but it needs to be done correctly and the right amount and levels of support given to individual students. Where as removing them entirely from the mainstream sends out the wrong message to them and everybody else, so where ever possible yes people should be treated as normally as possible and certainly not differently.

    I do think that sometimes the idea of mixed ability classes can work provided that people are working together, I don't really see the point of having an entire class all working at different levels with no interaction or team work, because how are students supposed to rise to the level of the best students if they have no understanding of what level they are actually working on. So also provided special students can cope I would advocate placing them in team work with some of the brighter students, it would also help prevent them being picked and to develop more comprehensive social skills.

    What I think is somewhat misguided is approaches based on peoples inabilities or problems, which seems to be the whole point of segregation. It's just such a negative concept, all focus should be placed on providing tools and support towards success, success breeds success, once you get people on that path then over coming obstacles and high achieving becomes natural. Segregation take away the challenge of success of being able to keep up with the best students from someone's peer group, instead of them being pulled up to this level they are only being exposed to other challenged students, they are being the denied the opportunity to overcome their problems and be treated as an equal. Where as those that are given the right support in a proper mainstream enviroment having nothing to fear and then know that they can cope with any issues they may face in the future, they've learnt to be successful and will thusly continue to be so.

    As I started off by saying though, it seems you have been somewhat let down along your educational path, this is why it is so impotant to make sure that the teachers fully understand their students and are giving them the right help and support so that they can cope and keep up with their fellow classmates.
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  10. #9  
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    I remember life before special education--- large number of kids getting no education, many from curable problems, staying at home who'd be lucky not to end up in an institution and a ward of the State; many other high functioning students with special education needs who'd end up underachievers lucky to find a life of work at jobs now displaced by technology.

    Special education has helped tens of millions reach their potential in the US--it's not perfect by a long shot, but it's far better than before it was implemented.
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  11. #10  
    AI's Have More Fun Bad Robot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    I remember life before special education--- large number of kids getting no education, many from curable problems, staying at home who'd be lucky not to end up in an institution and a ward of the State; many other high functioning students with special education needs who'd end up underachievers lucky to find a life of work at jobs now displaced by technology.

    Special education has helped tens of millions reach their potential in the US--it's not perfect by a long shot, but it's far better than before it was implemented.
    What about all the marginal students? The ones with mild undiagnosed learning disabilities, such as slight dyslexia & ADHD or ADD. They may be able to function in a regular class setting but they will be under achievers lucky to get 'C' grades. I think all students that don't maintain mostly B's & A's be evaluated and treated for mild learning disabilities and when they fall behind, student tutors could be assigned for a relatively small amount of money. This would allow the better students to make a little money and allow the local school districts to utilize a resource that goes mostly unused now.
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  12. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post
    What about all the marginal students? The ones with mild undiagnosed learning disabilities, such as slight dyslexia & ADHD or ADD. They may be able to function in a regular class setting but they will be under achievers lucky to get 'C' grades. I think all students that don't maintain mostly B's & A's be evaluated and treated for mild learning disabilities and when they fall behind, student tutors could be assigned for a relatively small amount of money. This would allow the better students to make a little money and allow the local school districts to utilize a resource that goes mostly unused now.
    In the US, those types of students fall under the big umbrella of Response to Intervention programs. But it's not well formalized in every state, and often not well funded.
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  13. #12  
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    Having a cousin, who is "mentally challenged", and was raised by her parents,(with 3 other siblings) and had Special Education. The though of not having special educations for those who need it is, in my opinion, moronic. She has held a job since she was 18 years old. She travels, with her groups, and has all over the world. She has a social life. She will always be about 12, but, I, for one, am proud of her, and maintain that Special Education students should not be DISCARDED! I think that there are people w/o special needs that could learn work ethics from her.
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    student tutors could be assigned for a relatively small amount of money. This would allow the better students to make a little money and allow the local school districts to utilize a resource that goes mostly unused now.
    Student tutors are sometimes useful to students a year or so younger, but not because they're good teachers. It's because they're closer to the learning point the student's at.

    As for those with "mild" dyslexia or ADD or ADHD who fall behind because of a lack of appropriate teaching - most teachers are not qualified to work this out, let alone a student who doesn't understand teaching in the first place. Teaching is not something anyone can do. You have to know what to teach and how to teach it. Many teachers are reluctant to even suggest getting a student's sight or hearing checked, how a student would 'notice' the tell-tale signs that there is something amiss in these areas is a bit of a gamble at best.

    Once a diagnosis and a remedial teaching/ learning program is worked out, a team might be able to work out how to fit a student into the plan, but I'd still be fairly reluctant. The biggest problem with students having an "acquired" educational deficit - because their earlier learning was impeded or entirely wrecked by an undiagnosed, untreated learning issue - is instilling confidence into them. Most show several problems - which some manage to combine. The first is a strong belief that they're too "dumb" to learn anything. Their earlier failures also lead them into a self-defeating perfectionism - any mistake, however trivial, is proof that they can't learn anything. Which means that it's not worth persisting with any task or topic. Surprise, surprise, many of these students fall back on the age-old mantra. I don't need reading or maths anyway.

    Some even try to kid you that they'll be a world-famous soccer player or hairdresser to the stars or other fantasy replacement for hard work. (The fact that these fantasies actually require a fair amount of hard work in their own right seems to be an impenetrable mystery to these kids - sometimes their deluded families conspire in this. )

    The way to get around this is to design a program that shows them that they can do some things. The fact that the program would, by anyone's estimation, be two or more years behind the student's presumed grade level doesn't matter. If they can do a set task, and do it properly, you can give them appropriate enthusiastic endorsement, rewards and encouragement. I have known some mature students who are "good with kids" who might also have the knack for staying appropriate despite the frustrations of dealing with such students but it's not a universal ability.

    Or you could save every last penny with a volunteer program (for maths anyway). John Mighton's approach is fan.tas.tic. Myth Of Ability Article
    John Mighton - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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