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Thread: Education system of intelligent students

  1. #1 Education system of intelligent students 
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    Always there are some students whose IQ are over 120. mostly we call them intelligent. They learn easy and fast.
    Do you believe they must be educated different from other students? Or sit beside other students?
    Is there any special education system in your country for intelligent students?



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    In my opinion NO, they still need exposure to normal student, but what they really need is more recognition for their work & effort (to inspire them for self-learning). If you gave them books and inspiration: intelligent student can learn almost anything on their own (they can understand idea faster), but parents & teachers must reinforce this self-learning behaviour by praising & recognizing & supporting their work & effort, also if they are in the same class with average people: they can learn social skills. This produce a socially balanced person, which can learn complex stuff even with normal sllyabus because he/she is motivated to be better and smarter in what they do.


    Last edited by msafwan; August 12th, 2011 at 07:27 PM.
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    Many schools have gifted programs, or even specialized schools. More typical though is teacher training that's supposed to account for their intelligent students and challenge them with additional projects and flexibility to the student to teach himself the subject at hand in more depth.
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    In high school math my teacher let me not do the homework and sit around mostly reading while she covered the homework for the class. I was occasionally expected to help others with their work, and in grade 10 I had to take notes for a blind kid. For the most part, my teachers never did anything to challenge or encourage me in high school, I got a bunch of awards at the end for being top boy and having the top grades in all the science courses, I don't even know where I put them. When I got to college I encountered students from good schools who had covered calculus in grade 11, and had already done the chemistry courses, I felt cheated by the public school system.
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    Quote Originally Posted by motahhari View Post
    Always there are some students whose IQ are over 120. mostly we call them intelligent.
    I'm interested in what we call them more infrequently.
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    Quote Originally Posted by i_feel_tiredsleepy View Post
    In high school math my teacher let me not do the homework and sit around mostly reading while she covered the homework for the class. I was occasionally expected to help others with their work, and in grade 10 I had to take notes for a blind kid. For the most part, my teachers never did anything to challenge or encourage me in high school, I got a bunch of awards at the end for being top boy and having the top grades in all the science courses, I don't even know where I put them. When I got to college I encountered students from good schools who had covered calculus in grade 11, and had already done the chemistry courses, I felt cheated by the public school system.
    But you've the awards, the recognition and the reputation. That is what matters; it's the thing that put you is the best situation (job,university, ect) , and you don't get this if you are in school with tough sllyabus (where ironically you will have higher chance of failing, under constant stress, and if unfortunate: ended up with no degree whatsoever). And I don't think school choice matter unless you have that 'Einstein' or Nobel prize winner as a teacher: otherwise, textbook is the best source for authorative knowledge (because books is detailed, written by experts, and organized, while teacher often skip the details).

    I don't think school choice matter, but if the teacher are good: then it matters.
    Last edited by msafwan; August 15th, 2011 at 10:27 AM.
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    Hate to break it to you, but text books are notoriously inaccurate, often painting social studies issues with strong cultural bias and often very dated in the sciences. Text books probably work better for math, and languages. A good teacher, up on their field, should be well ahead of their text books.

    I didn't mention that I dropped out of highschool out of a combination of boredom and because most of my peer decided a paycheck from commercial lobstering and fishing was more important than finishing school. I changed my mind later--largely thanks to a teacher who, just after I almost lost my life off the coast of Maine, bluntly told me I could do better than my dad. I love my dad but the teacher was right and I'm thankful for that advice.

    Good schools tend to have better teachers, and perhaps more importantly, the administrative support structures that allow good teachers to excel at their profession. A good teacher at a bad school often gets bogged down in other things other than teaching and tend not to develop their own teaching skills.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Hate to break it to you, but text books are notoriously inaccurate, often painting social studies issues with strong cultural bias and often very dated in the sciences. Text books probably work better for math, and languages. A good teacher, up on their field, should be well ahead of their text books
    Physic textbook (for example) has many author and many edition, this is similar with other science textbook. Dated textbook is just an old textbook that no one ever read (eg: Newton's original book). The point of having a textbook is to teach you the fundamentals (which didn't became outdated), which is useful for understanding the latest findings (which you can find easily with Google Scholar)...

    OK, I agree with you about the bias in social studies book, but I'm just saying that you can rely on textbook for science.
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    Quote Originally Posted by motahari View Post
    Always there are some students whose IQ are over 120. mostly we call them intelligent. They learn easy and fast.
    Do you believe they must be educated different from other students? Or sit beside other students?
    Is there any special education system in your country for intelligent students?
    I agree with some of the other points raised already about exposure to typically developing students as well. I suggest that because , it is part of life education to be able to navigate through social situations that might arise from time to time. Children can Learn a lot from each other through their interactions.
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    I am chinese, I want to add more few comments:
    1> intelligent students should be put together with normal students, sure thing! otherwise you yourself find a dedicated tutor for your child. bcs the education policy is aiming at all students at diff levels, not just at intelligent students.
    2> it depends on their parents if their children should be better educated than the normal. if the students is thought intelligent enough, these children can be sent to good education school or hire excellent teachers to educate them in order to better develop their EQ/IQ.
    3>I dont think it is necessary to overdevelop these so-called intelligent students, if they are really intelligent, they can spend less time in study and more time in other aspects. i.e, sports.music.arts,etc. i mean not just focusing on science courses. but all-around development largely based on interests.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lynx fox
    Text books probably work better for math,
    Probably not. Very few people - even very bright ones - can learn math from a textbook. Or any of the sciences, I would guess. It would be like learning gymnastics or swimming or violin playing from a book - a muddled, bad book, btw: textbooks at the basic levels are for some reason horribly written and lethally dull in a confused way. Most are written to satisfy the Texas State curriculum committee - which may or may not explain the situation.

    Some bright kids will educate themselves, fending off the demands (attention, time) of their school to do it, and charting their own course in light of what they somehow realize they will need. Most won't. None will match the progress possible with decent instruction and guidance.

    If we rely on teachers in the regular US schools to select out and provide individual attention to the least troublesome and best educated of their dozens of students, in the middle of handling their regular overloaded classes and imposed busywork, we will continue to get what we've been getting - grad students and professionals in the sciences from overseas and other systems.
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    I don't think that a special kind of education should be given to the group of intelligent students. Education should be imparted to all in an impartial manner.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Narayan View Post
    I don't think that a special kind of education should be given to the group of intelligent students. Education should be imparted to all in an impartial manner.
    Unfortunately that's a recipe for intelligent kids not living up to their full potential if they come from poor economic backgrounds.
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    Most times children with gifted abilities are promoted very quickly through the different levels of the educational system so that they keep up with their learning abilities. So the gifted children are advanced from grade to grade , even skipping over grades at times, to insure their abilities are not held back.

    These gifted students then can graduate at a much younger age from high school and attend college at say 12 years old in certain cases, which has happened. The main thing is that the gifted students are challenged by advancing them faster so they have more information to learn and to keep up with so they are kept challenged.

    Most gifted students go beyond their school environment and study at nearby colleges and universities on their own time by going to libraries and reading advanced books on subjects they are more interested in. That way they teach themselves and advance faster on their own for they really don't need a teacher all the time telling them what they need to learn.
    Last edited by cosmictraveler; December 8th, 2012 at 09:02 AM.
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    Good schools sometimes do that. Schools in rural areas seldom do, nor have the specialized educators, nor formal programs to challenge gifted children. At least in the US, most don't get advanced at all. I'll see if I can pull up some of the studies of this subject.

    Increasing the grade level also doesn't solve the entire problem because gifted students need different teaching styles. Take for example having a teacher who grades long problem sets. It covers 2 types of problems, ten problems each, which is pretty close to the minimum for understanding, so as 20 questions which should take an hour. The gifted kid does the first three and completely understands the problems. He skips ahead and does 3 of the other types. He's now in the dilemma of being bored out of head and wasting an hour he's rather be doing something else...or getting an F on the worksheet. He takes the F. To make things worse the next day the teacher goes over all the problems, and makes it even more boring by having a group activity to cover the exact same content being taught a little bit different. Bored again, he screws around, makes disruptive comments when he points out to 3 near by students that there's two crows screwing on the lamp post (I'm in 7th grade again...hehe). He gets a C that semester in a class he completely understands. His parents are pissed. His teacher dislikes him. Other kids might dislike him.....etc etc. Underachievement among gifted is very common and just as tragic because these are the future leadership of their communities and higher. In the US federal laws barely even recognize the problem and are not resourced for programs, or even significant research. Organized federal and state programs are for gifted where special education was 30 years ago--ad hock and all to often ineffective or even dismissive of their unique challenges; this is all the more so in poor communities.
    Last edited by Lynx_Fox; December 8th, 2012 at 04:20 AM.
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    Thankfully most schools , in America, are located in cities where there are many avenues for students to learn from. I'd agree that in certain cases it would be difficult to keep a gifted student involved enough if there's not any emphasis on their type of abilities to help them along. But again that's usually not the case.

    Today with computers available to anyone students can easily take up courses at home that challange them if they really want to excel in their own way.
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    Today with computers available to anyone students can easily take up courses at home that challange them if they really want to excel in their own way.


    Not really true. Several studies point to lower achievement from computers at home. The problem is aggravated in the very places we're loosing gifted students--in poor neighborhoods.

    Computers and Student Learning: Bivariate and Multivariate Evidence on the Availability and Use of Computers at Home and at School by Ludger Woessmann, Thomas Fuchs :: SSRN
    Home Computers and Human Capital


    The reason is the same--without trained professional educators to develop an individual program, integrate it into the child's learning or other professionals to assist poor parents, the computers merely becomes a distraction rather than a useful tool to improve access to learning.

    Just having a computer in the home, or available at school DOES NOT automatically lead to better academic achievement--something too many American's aren't aware of as we spend billions and billions of dollars just throwing technology at education.

    I teach part time in several rural school at present as I work towards my formal teaching credentials--none of those school have a formal or robust gifted program--and what little "program" that does exist, only applies to high school. The drop out rate is near 30%, among them some a few gifted every year. Educational science suggest gifted programs should start much earlier.

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    There's also NO FLEXIBILITY for the school to emphasize individual skills in particular areas. The next Hemingway could be a complete failure in life because is couldn't pass algebra II, never got a high school education, and ends up poor, largely unemployed and that skill for verse never developed--society pays the cost for that tragedy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by motahhari View Post
    Always there are some students whose IQ are over 120. mostly we call them intelligent. They learn easy and fast.
    Do you believe they must be educated different from other students? Or sit beside other students?
    Is there any special education system in your country for intelligent students?

    I think every one of us, is part of that thing called intelligence. Whether your below average IQ or a genius, you will have some part, in bringing human ideas to reality.

    In my junior and senior, co-ed boarding school, high school years, we were all very close. Our smartest student was B.. And I believe it was a good thing, having him with the rest of us, because if we did not know or understand something, we could always ask him. We never worshiped his brain, but everyone was nice to him.


    But I think it should be that intelligent persons choice, what they do with their own life. If going to some special school makes them happy, then let them go to some special school. But I personally feel the natural thing, is letting them be with everyone else.

    I was looking at my high school graduation pictures a while back. And as I was getting handed my diploma, there was B. with a huge smile on his face. I am glad he was with us, I only wish I would have got to know him better.


    I believe we all give too much praise and attention, to people with high IQ's.
    We all have our own special talents.
    Perhaps if we showed that same respect, to our lowest paid workers and homeless people, this world would be a scientifically better place.

    Space programs lack money.
    And no one can afford to bring to life, many of the newest ideas of science.

    Respect everyone, and perhaps we would be a natural group of primates. And we could work side by side, with these high IQ people, and send some space craft to Mars, and frozen moons.

    But instead we worry about our own futures, wondering if people will respect us enough, to give us the things we need (or something like that.)
    Last edited by chad; December 16th, 2012 at 11:03 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by motahhari View Post
    Always there are some students whose IQ are over 120. mostly we call them intelligent. They learn easy and fast.
    Do you believe they must be educated different from other students? Or sit beside other students?
    Is there any special education system in your country for intelligent students?
    Well I would suggest we all want the best out of life for both ourselves and our children, now to me that means living upto your true potential, so I guess I'm possibly a bit old fashioned in this and would bring back grammar schools, (for those who are not british, these are schools for the gifted and intelligent and have places awarded from the results of testing, it used to be the case they were sat at 11.), to help ensure the brightest are really streched and that the standards are set to cater to the bright not the main stream. I don't see anything wrong with intelligent people being given a good education and start in life regardless of their back ground and I feel this would be a far fairer system than we currently have in the UK where only the wealthy who live in the best areas get to send their children to the top state schools or they send them to private schools, which obviously the less well off simply can't afford.

    Though I must say and praise the work on the 'free schools' currently being done, I think this will really help give some children from poorer backgrounds a chance at great schools they wouldn't have ordinarily have gone to. (again for the non British, free schools are independantly run, like private schools but 'free' as the name suggests and as such the standards are usually very high.)
    Last edited by Ascended; December 18th, 2012 at 08:56 PM. Reason: missed words out
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    The education system would be best reconstructed not through levels of IQ, but through forms such as the kinesthetic, the auditory and the visual. It has potential to allow students that work best to escalate their academic standard. The difficulty to bring about a change in the universal academic systems make it conceptual.
    Last edited by Yus; December 22nd, 2012 at 09:02 PM.
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    the inclined talent in different intelligence forms such as the kinesthetic, the auditory and the visual.
    I don't know whether you're a teacher who was indoctrinated with this stuff in college or a student who was encouraged to do this at school. Cognitive scientists have shown that this is complete hogwash - for education.

    Quick video. Learning Styles Don't Exist - YouTube

    http://new.peoplepeople.org/wp-conte...ing-Styles.pdf

    One paragraph for example.
    If I were to tell you “I want to teach you something. Would you rather
    learn it by seeing a slideshow, reading it as text, hearing it as a
    podcast, or enacting it in a series of movements,” do you think
    you could answer without first asking what you were to learn—
    a dance, a piece of music, or an equation? While it may seem
    like a silly example, the claim of the learning styles approach is
    that one could make such a choice and improve one’s learning
    through that choice, independent of content.
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    Fascinating! I'm indoctrinated as well.

    This is why I like forums.
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    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    the inclined talent in different intelligence forms such as the kinesthetic, the auditory and the visual.
    I don't know whether you're a teacher who was indoctrinated with this stuff in college or a student who was encouraged to do this at school. Cognitive scientists have shown that this is complete hogwash - for education.

    Quick video. Learning Styles Don't Exist - YouTube

    http://new.peoplepeople.org/wp-conte...ing-Styles.pdf

    One paragraph for example.
    If I were to tell you “I want to teach you something. Would you rather
    learn it by seeing a slideshow, reading it as text, hearing it as a
    podcast, or enacting it in a series of movements,” do you think
    you could answer without first asking what you were to learn—
    a dance, a piece of music, or an equation? While it may seem
    like a silly example, the claim of the learning styles approach is
    that one could make such a choice and improve one’s learning
    through that choice, independent of content.
    This is new information to me. I haven't gone into why the theory does not work so thought in that it can't be tested because of the ambiguity of what allows us to understand a particular new piece of information in difference to another is a bit novel. It doesn't refute that people are inclined to one or the other but rather that learning in itself is not dependent upon being sided to one form or the other.

    edit: I've edited out small bits of my first post to try and make things a bit clearer. I believe I was mainly talking about changing the general education system today to incorporate the 3 learning styles instead of a segregating the three to types of individuals.
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    It doesn't refute that people are inclined to one or the other but rather that learning in itself is not dependent upon being sided to one form or the other.
    Yes. In fact, VAK criteria are very, very good when analysing good and bad communication. If you look at some of the great examples of oratory, you'll find that good speakers tend to cover all bases so that they have an impact on everyone regardless of preferred communication styles.

    I once did a training course on identifying and using styles for communication purposes. The truly amazing moment occurred in the middle of one day. We'd all done one of those identify your style questionnaires and worked out our preferred and least preferred styles. (This was a group of 50ish people who'd all been selected on the basis of their previous good records in people skills.) We sorted ourselves out into groups of three and we were given a task of explaining something to the other 2 people - but we had to use language of our least preferred style. Silence. Hesitation, um, err, stumbling and slow speech.

    It was a huge wake-up call. We'd already laughed and joked about the incompetence of some letters our own organisation had written to people who then complained about our unresponsiveness, even though those letters were absolutely, impeccably correct in law. And we'd easily got the message that letters couched in the terms and style of legislation would never, ever meet the needs of someone who was approaching the problem from a completely different mindset. The 'try and use another's language' exercise brought home to us just how hard it is when your subject matter, law and regulation, is relentlessly and entirely one mindset only and you have to communicate with someone who doesn't normally think that way. And that's everybody - even the strongest auditory preference person uses visual or kinetic words and expressions when appropriate.

    But it doesn't help teachers when deciding how to teach maths or foreign languages or geography or drama. The best use of such concepts is to use a style that best suits the material rather than contorting it out of shape to pretend you can make it easier for some students to learn.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post

    Increasing the grade level also doesn't solve the entire problem because gifted students need different teaching styles. Take for example having a teacher who grades long problem sets. It covers 2 types of problems, ten problems each, which is pretty close to the minimum for understanding, so as 20 questions which should take an hour. The gifted kid does the first three and completely understands the problems. He skips ahead and does 3 of the other types. He's now in the dilemma of being bored out of head and wasting an hour he's rather be doing something else...or getting an F on the worksheet. He takes the F. To make things worse the next day the teacher goes over all the problems, and makes it even more boring by having a group activity to cover the exact same content being taught a little bit different. Bored again, he screws around, makes disruptive comments when he points out to 3 near by students that there's two crows screwing on the lamp post (I'm in 7th grade again...hehe). He gets a C that semester in a class he completely understands. His parents are pissed. His teacher dislikes him. Other kids might dislike him.....etc etc. Underachievement among gifted is very common and just as tragic because these are the future leadership of their communities and higher. In the US federal laws barely even recognize the problem and are not resourced for programs, or even significant research. Organized federal and state programs are for gifted where special education was 30 years ago--ad hock and all to often ineffective or even dismissive of their unique challenges; this is all the more so in poor communities.
    An extremely good description.



    Quote Originally Posted by chad View Post


    But I think it should be that intelligent persons choice, what they do with their own life. If going to some special school makes them happy, then let them go to some special school. But I personally feel the natural thing, is letting them be with everyone else.

    ....

    I believe we all give too much praise and attention, to people with high IQ's.
    We all have our own special talents.
    Perhaps if we showed that same respect, to our lowest paid workers and homeless people, this world would be a scientifically better place.
    It's just another part of the problem. Most smart kids don't think they're any better than anyone else. (The "achiever" kids may lord it over the others, but they're usually not naturally bright, just hard working.) It's the grownups that make the big deal of it. There's a strong fear for a smart kid in class that the teacher will dote over them in front of the class, making the other kids jealous and resentful.

    It's another strong reason for a smart kid not to bother with homework. They can continue learning without it, and they know the teacher will never dote over them if their homework isn't done. It's the best of both worlds. Just won't help getting into college.
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    One thing that tends to concern me about the idea of education in general is this idea that unless you go on to university and achieve a degree then you are somehow considered a failure, now don't get me wrong I think education is great and would wish that everyone could get degrees and wish them nothing but well, but the fact is that many people simply won't go on to higher education and obtain a degree. So I think we also need to do more work for these people, if they can be recognised early on and helped along a different path towards their future then I feel we would be making some worthwhile progress. But in order to this we also have to restore some pride and respect for ordinary people doing ordinary jobs, we need to be able to tell these children that it's ok to take an apprenticeship and that it's ok and just as valid as any of the other professional careers should they aspire to be a carpenter, electrician or plumber etc... We really need to focus education on helping to teach our children the real skills that they are suited for and will give them their best opportunities in life, rather than just filling these kids heads with unrealistic aspirations which will ultimately only lead to disappointment for far to many and deny them their real chances for employment and happiness.
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    Malignant Pimple shlunka's Avatar
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    Base high school tracking systems off of IQ tests? Absolutely not. I personally have always scored between 125-140 on IQ tests, one would think I excel in many classes, unfortunately I do not. I struggle with pre-calc CP, foreign languages, and certain formula based chemistry problems. The reason, I'm uninterested. A high IQ may make an intelligent person, but it does not make a good student. A good student has some intelligence, but diligence is what makes the student good/bad.
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  29. #28  
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    There is a simple idea-why not to separate these more intelligent (and these who want to learn and have ambitions) to a different group?
    The efficiency of learning will be a few times higher.
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  30. #29  
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    Quote Originally Posted by kordix View Post
    There is a simple idea-why not to separate these more intelligent (and these who want to learn and have ambitions) to a different group?
    The efficiency of learning will be a few times higher.
    Seperating people wouldn't help them because they must learn social interactions as well. Being in a class of the "same" type of people you'd be segregating them and could cause determental affects to them for being seperated from the "herd".
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  31. #30  
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kordix View Post
    There is a simple idea-why not to separate these more intelligent (and these who want to learn and have ambitions) to a different group?
    The efficiency of learning will be a few times higher.
    Seperating people wouldn't help them because they must learn social interactions as well. Being in a class of the "same" type of people you'd be segregating them and could cause determental affects to them for being seperated from the "herd".
    Agreed, more variety can be beneficial in a learning environment.
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  32. #31  
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    Seperating people wouldn't help them because they must learn social interactions as well. Being in a class of the "same" type of people you'd be segregating them and could cause determental affects to them for being seperated from the "herd".

    I am not saying they should be totally isolated from other people, they could meet many types of people in school, it's just about learning.
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  33. #32  
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    Well, being in one of those "high-class private school" in Iraq, and from what I see currently in my own country, I think the HIGHLY intelligent people should be separated with private schools, and are given the choice if they want to join that school or stay with a normal school.

    Although some intelligent people need special development and such, I don't think that intelligent people should be put in normal reasons because of the bad influence by some "trouble-making" students and such although I'm not against the idea.
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  34. #33  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    One thing that tends to concern me about the idea of education in general is this idea that unless you go on to university and achieve a degree then you are somehow considered a failure, now don't get me wrong I think education is great and would wish that everyone could get degrees and wish them nothing but well, but the fact is that many people simply won't go on to higher education and obtain a degree. So I think we also need to do more work for these people, if they can be recognised early on and helped along a different path towards their future then I feel we would be making some worthwhile progress. But in order to this we also have to restore some pride and respect for ordinary people doing ordinary jobs, we need to be able to tell these children that it's ok to take an apprenticeship and that it's ok and just as valid as any of the other professional careers should they aspire to be a carpenter, electrician or plumber etc... We really need to focus education on helping to teach our children the real skills that they are suited for and will give them their best opportunities in life, rather than just filling these kids heads with unrealistic aspirations which will ultimately only lead to disappointment for far to many and deny them their real chances for employment and happiness.
    Imagine a world where trades are populated entirely by mediocre minds, and boast no extraordinary craftsmanship or ingenuity. Yet this must be the unintended consequence of drawing every gifted kid into higher education.
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    Changing to a harder school is probably the best option.
    Last year I had a teacher who tried to inspire us once in a while, and I did much better. This year, one of my teachers is a knee-jerk, and I'm doing much worse. (Though there are other factors which could make a difference). This would be hard to do with a large class, so I think a good school is small and has a good/motivated community.
    Giving people some choice about what they study would fix the issue of unmotivated intelligent kids. It would also train them to be more motivated as adults.
    "It is the ability to make predictions about the future that is the crux of intelligence."
    -Jeff Hawkins.
    For example, you can predict that 3+5=8. You can predict what sequence of muscle commands you should generate during a conversation, or whether an object is a desk or a chair. The brain is very complicated, but that is essentially how intelligence works. Instinct, emotions, and behavior are somewhat seperate.
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    If they want to study ahead, test out of classes, or pick up a hobby. There's a website called Fat Wallet all one word dot com that has a list of free classes under a free stuff tab.

    Whether or not they should study along side less intelligent classmates should be up to them. Some will prioritize being with their peer group, others will be completely bored and react poorly to the boredom.
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  37. #36  
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    We already have an education system for the highly intelligent, it's called libraries and the internet.
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  38. #37  
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    Quote Originally Posted by shlunka View Post
    and the internet.
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  39. #38  
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    Learning social skills, which includes learning how to relate to people of all intelligence levels, is a very important part of education. I think intelligent children need an opportunity to learn more in terms of access to materials, taking advanced classes, etc., but they should not be isolated from the rest of the population.

    I was a very advance child.When I was in 2nd grade (7 years old), I tested at a 12th grade reading level (16/17 years old.)

    My sister and brother are, respectively, 9 and 12 years older than me and I used to read their college textbooks. I taught myself a little bit of calculus when I was in elementary school. When I was in school, I was encouraged to develop my intelligence. I took honors classes and AP classes.

    However, I took classes with kids my own age and I was never completely isolated from the "less intelligent" children.

    If I had been thrown into a high school or college class when I was elementary school age, I may have been able to understand the lessons and pass the exams, but I would have no friends and no social skills, and my life would have been completely messed up.

    In life after school, you are going to meet people of varying intelligence levels,some of whom are going to have power over you and whom you are going to have to know how to get along with, even if your IQ is higher than theirs - your landlord, your boss, your fmother-in-law, etc. If you isolate yourself from other people because you are "too smart" for them, you are going to have problems in life.

    And by the way, IQ does not measure all levels of intelligence. (Look up Gardner's multiple intelligences). We all probably have areas that we could work on. School should also be helping you to be a more balanced individual.
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  40. #39  
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    different people learn differently

    some like to read, and get more education from books

    some are darned good listeners, and get more education by listening

    some need to be moving to be able to learn---force these people to sit quietly in their chairs, and watch the light go out in their eyes.

    one size does not fit all, and only by putting forth the best effort on the part of our educators can we optomize the precious resource of our culture's children.
    Teaching is NOT a default profession if one hopes for quality of education.

    Here in Iowa: One local school system created a special high school for the crazies---people who couldn't sit still, weren't learning(held back failures), etc...
    initially, every child at that school was sentenced there by their old schools, or by judges. The teachers that came to that zoo were all of the mindset that "all children could be tought" and much as R.D.Laing(sp?) chastised a psychiatrist who claimed that schitzophrenics were unreachable, the teachers assumed the responsibility of reaching their students-------with amazing success----students who otherwise would have been washed out, droped out, and left uneducated were suddenly flowering in their new environment.
    Schools, teachers, principals, councellors all really need to be there for one and only one reason, and that is to reach every young mind and help it to mature into the best young mind that it could possibly be.
    Anything else is garbage, and the worst noncarring polution immaginable.

    ......................
    my experience with the school system in my small town america was 2fold
    1) the schools tought to the lowest common denominator, the class could only proceed at the pace of the least capable.
    2) the same powerful individuals who sat on the draft board sat on the school board and their main interest was to assure the continuation of their power base down through their descendents. Poor people got drafted, and, if gifted, were politely ignored in the school system------------years ago, I started commenting that "my town" was a damned good place to be FROM.

    ............
    once freed from that
    at university, I found that I learned best when I did all the required reading well in advance of the lectures----I would then be able to compare the professors words to what I thought I had learned from the printed material, and whenever I saw a conflict, I would interrupt the professor, and compare what I thought I had understood from the texts, and what (s)he had just said(often ending with "what did I miss")----------followed after the class with an appology for interrupting.

    I have always been rather autodidactic----and used the professors to clarify and broaden my understandings. But, I needed to be an adult first, then realize that these people all worked indirectly for me. If they seemed reluctant, I pushed harder. If that didn't help, I moved on to different professors.

    children should not be expected to take charge like that.
    They should be reached out to with knowledge and understanding.

    ..................edit
    epimetheus
    I once sternly lectured on of my childrens teachers who was complaining about having a problem with him, by reminding her that he was just a little boy, and she was an hypothetically well educated adult, and that if there was a problem, her being the adult, it was up to her to solve the problem rather than whining and complaining "you have a job to do here---do that job or do something else.". Her principal was standing in the room at the time. I had previously seen her(Amy) leap to the defense of one of her teachers like an enraged mother tiger. This time, I noticed that she folder her arms, and took a step backwards as I finished with that supposed teacher. My son went on to graduate in the top 10% in one of the best law schools in the country, and that supposed "teacher" didn't return to that school the following year.
    Last edited by sculptor; April 21st, 2013 at 01:56 PM.
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  41. #40  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    @ Alec Bing:
    Pfft, forcing square pegs into round holes to suit "society's" preferences/ preconceptions.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
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