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Thread: What is the best educational system

  1. #1 What is the best educational system 
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    In this country the E.S. is often under attack by westerners who cannot adjust to a different system of learning and they complain and complain hoping to make things like the west.

    Well the western way seems to spawn far more sinful and illegal activities thanthis country's so changing would not be an option.

    What do you think is the better way to go about teaching students?

    ****this is NOT about evolution nor religion so please keep such topics out of the discussion please.


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    could you describe the E.S. over there for us, or even give the country? (just so we can get a base for comparison). I'm not sure how to describe the U.S. educational system, nor am I sure what you mean to talk about, but by baring religion, I'm sure you mean the teaching method, and not the content, right?


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  4. #3 Re: What is the best educational system 
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    In this country ...............
    Which is?
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    sorry but the country remains annonymous. it was not to be the focus of discussion just a general discussion about different educational systems employed around the world.

    arcane--no one said anything about barring religion except that it and evolution are not part of this discussion.
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  6. #5  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    sorry but the country remains annonymous. it was not to be the focus of discussion .
    So why even mention it? It just confuses the issue.
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  7. #6 Re: What is the best educational system 
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist

    Well the western way seems to spawn far more sinful and illegal activities

    ****this is NOT about evolution nor religion
    Religious Fundamentalist Club - Member #1.
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    What do you think is the better way to go about teaching students?
    Better than what? Unless you provide the system or country there is no bench mark to compare to...or any other way to quantify "better."
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    Without putting much thought into it apprenticeship and/or experience seems like the best way to learn anything, assuming the master is a competent teacher.

    Something tells me this is not what you mean though.

    I don't know what systems of education there are, maybe you should make a list of systems and how they differ from one another, then we can compare them.

    Very interesting topic though, why it had to be started off with such negativity I don't know, but lets put it aside for the sake of discussion, please.
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    arcane--no one said anything about barring religion except that it and evolution are not part of this discussion.
    That's EXACTLY what I meant...
    Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools, because they have to say something.
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcusclayman
    Without putting much thought into it apprenticeship and/or experience seems like the best way to learn anything, assuming the master is a competent teacher.

    Something tells me this is not what you mean though.

    I don't know what systems of education there are, maybe you should make a list of systems and how they differ from one another, then we can compare them.

    Very interesting topic though, why it had to be started off with such negativity I don't know, but lets put it aside for the sake of discussion, please.
    actually marcus, you are the only one to get it right. i am not providing a benchmark because the system here is NOT up for discussion but what system seems to be the best way to teach students.

    others seem to want an example to criticize, feel superior to a particular way of teaching. what i am clearly asking for is their opinion. they all have been educated, hopefully though some people here i highly doubt it, they should have some awareness of what systems are out there and can state what they favor and why.

    it is quite clear that the 'no child left behind' program is vastly failing its students and that the american system seems to be rife with sexual attacks and other crimes, along with leaving students too much free time.

    i had never thought of apprenticeship but doesn't that have too many limitations to be really effective for a large populated country?
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    apprenticeship I'd reserve from using in the lower division (younger children) schools, for that reason, but I'd say it's the best way to learn a trade, for sure. Internship is based on the old ideal of becoming an apprentice to a master craftsman.

    The 'no child left behind' act is totally bullshit and a useless development, but I wouldn't call it an E.S. it's more a way to modify the system, and that's what I was curious about. How do you quantify an education system? I mean, I was taught in the U.S. state of California's public school system, and the way they taught us was through hour long courses over a 10 month period, (all of the classes offered were year long, no semester courses), 6 at a time. I guess I'd call it a simultaneous interdisciplinary system, based on education in a subject over a year's duration. I'm not really sure what you'd like to discuss though, how many ways are there to teach some one? If you mean methods, than that's something I can go with more easily, but a system of education is more like the way you go about organizing what is to learned(sorry if it's a confusing sentence), over how you actually teach and present what is to be learned.

    As for methods, I'd say there are many different ways to present information, and the majority of what I had was basic lecture, no real inclusion, just an oral expulsion of information and an expectation that we would learn.

    what is the method you observe over where ever you are, arch?
    Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools, because they have to say something.
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    What I mean by apprenticeship is an education free from bureaucracy which probably doesn't qualify as a "system."

    Anyone and everyone can teach anything and everything they want to, in exchange for anything they want from the student so long as the student is willing. Even a child could hypothetically teach an adult if both parties were able and willing.

    Like I said, you will need to define A: system of education, preferably by giving multiple examples of some systems and B: what you mean by "best" what are you trying to accomplish with education? are you trying to teach about the world and develop critical thinking skills? are you trying to make skilled laborers? are you trying to help children be creative and to grow to reach their full potential(in which case who decides who's potential)? are you trying to spread morality, harmony, ethics, balance, or some other set of principles? are you trying to keep kids away from the real world long enough to replace their nature with one of your own design? are you trying to simply make the most popular system of education? the one that awakens the most people to the truth?

    The best system is the one that succeeds in what it was designed to do. What is the best system designed to do? Answer that and MAYBE we can develop an idea of how to accomplish it.
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  14. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    others seem to want an example to criticize, feel superior to a particular way of teaching. what i am clearly asking for is their opinion.
    If you wanted our opinion without reference to any other system why did you open by contrasting the system in the country where you are resident with the one in the US? You invited comparison by making a comparison yourself, then complain when people ask for more information to make that comparison. In short you may have clearly asked for an opinion, but what was not clear was an opinion on what.

    Any effective system requires an inventive and versatile blend of all available teaching and learning techniques, coupled with appropriate levels of motivational processes. Rote learning and pedagogical teaching should take their place alongside self study and material available in multiple formats. (I shall not say multi-media, since this is an often abused and misapplied term.) Everything between these two extremes must be applied based upon a continuous real time assessment of the student's current needs.

    It will be clear I agree strongly with marcusclayman's point that what is taught and how it is taught are two quite different things. However, where we may differ is that the process I have outlined will not be effective at indoctrination. (Marcus's option, keep kids away from the real world long enough to replace their nature with one of your own design.)

    Apprenticeship is a form of mentoring and as such has application throughout the educational process. Students require teachers, guides, advisors and mentors. In many cases all of these roles can be wrapped into a single individual, but an effective system recognises when this is inappropriate.

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    apprenticeship I'd reserve from using in the lower division (younger children) schools, for that reason
    WHY? what would you teach them instead?

    The 'no child left behind' act is totally bullshit and a useless development, but I wouldn't call it an E.S. it's more a way to modify the system, and that's what I was curious about. How do you quantify an education system
    I am inclimed to agree BUT the 'NCLB' is a system of sort as it puts requirements upon teachers who have to modify their present methods, education and criteria for passing a child.

    If you mean methods, than that's something I can go with more easily, but a system of education is more like the way you go about organizing what is to learne
    this is actually one of the keys. most of the people i am opposing usually confuse method with system. I do not believe we have that many options for a system and my question in th e OP was to ferret out what systems were in action today around the world.

    I know the western one is quite dominate, large classrooms, a school bldg. 1 teacher per classroom etc. i have studied under the year long and the semester systems, couldn't tell you which i woul dprefer as i see advantages for both and about the same disadvantages.

    what is the method you observe over where ever you are
    standard lecture.

    What I mean by apprenticeship is an education free from bureaucracy which probably doesn't qualify as a "system
    in today's worl i doubt you could get away with that but there would have ot be some form of direction and advancement needed so i doubt you could be free from bureaucracy either.

    Anyone and everyone can teach anything and everything they want to, in exchange for anything they want from the student so long as the student is willing
    let's limit this to within one's abilities and education. i do not think a carpenter would teach about plumbing.

    you will need to define A: system of education, preferably by giving multiple examples of some systems and B: what you mean by "best" what are you trying to accomplish with education? are you trying to teach about the world and develop critical thinking skills? are you trying to make skilled laborers? are you trying to help children be creative and to grow to reach their full potential(in which case who decides who's potential)?
    for argument's sake let's keep in mind the diversity of students in schools today and the variety of employment available.

    The best system is the one that succeeds in what it was designed to do
    but that is any system if you really wanted to go that route. even a system designed to fail would be a success if it failed.

    What is the best system designed to do? Answer that and MAYBE we can develop an idea of how to accomplish it.
    give your best guess.

    Any effective system requires an inventive and versatile blend of all available teaching and learning techniques, coupled with appropriate levels of motivational processes. Rote learning and pedagogical teaching should take their place alongside self study and material available in multiple formats
    yet what about teacher's personalities? not everyone can teach the same or make something outside of their personality work.

    (I shall not say multi-media, since this is an often abused and misapplied term.)
    i would agree with you as it can be a lazy wayout of teaching. though power point can help if a teacher has bad handwriting, or one needs to highlight certain things.

    Apprenticeship is a form of mentoring and as such has application throughout the educational process. Students require teachers, guides, advisors and mentors. In many cases all of these roles can be wrapped into a single individual, but an effective system recognises when this is inappropriate.
    i have no problem with apprenticship yet no one answered my question concerning the large population factor.
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  16. #15  
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    in today's worl i doubt you could get away with that but there would have ot be some form of direction and advancement needed so i doubt you could be free from bureaucracy either.
    The betterment of a craft, whether it be a trade, art or science, should be direction enough. The ability to practice on your own should also be advancement enough. key word, should, but I do not think we should lacken a good system to include those who have no desire to better a craft, since those folks will mostly only make laborers, whereas those who seek the better a craft are the ones who go on to discover more about it and pave the way for future generations.

    let's limit this to within one's abilities and education. i do not think a carpenter would teach about plumbing.
    Why not limit it just to one's abilities. If a carpenter knew something about plumbing, why shouldn't he be able to teach it?

    for argument's sake let's keep in mind the diversity of students in schools today and the variety of employment available.
    .

    Alright, then the point of the best education system is to create successful workers in a diverse environment. Would you agree with this?

    Quote:
    The best system is the one that succeeds in what it was designed to do

    but that is any system if you really wanted to go that route. even a system designed to fail would be a success if it failed.
    But a system designed to make children into ethical-blue-collar-laborers and manufactures that instead created selfish decadent artists... this would be a failed education system, and would not be an example of the best education system using the definition I provided.

    others seem to want an example to criticize,
    So do you, please provide information though, give me something to criticise in return. I am not an expert on this subject, I am here not to share my ideas and have them scrutinized but to discuss OUR ideas and maybe learn something.
    K-thanks

    and by the way, both me and Arcane replied to your comment on the population factor on apprenticeship. We agree for the most part, though we said it in different ways. Ultimately, to meet todays standards, a combination of classroom lecture and apprenticeship would be necissary, but each student should be treated differently.

    I went to Job Corps, and this, although shrouded in an overbearing negativity due to it's majority population, is a very good system, although they don't use it to it's fullest potential. It is like an educational commune. They provide academic classes for those who need them to get a diploma, and they also provide a skilled trade course. Each class provided something to the facility. Cooking arts did all the cooking fo students/faculty/guest meals and special banquets; facilities maintenance did all the landscaping. It is easy enouggh to think of courses which would help make such an education facility more self sufficient while providing a useful skill.

    For example an agriculture program, a server operator and computer maintenance course, etc.
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    I'd say the best way to teach a group, I'm going to make the assumption that we will be dealing with the lower division of schooling, children, so I would say the system that teaches them what they need to know to further the advancements of mankind would be the best system; giving them a well-rounded rudimentary education, and a decent specialized education (give them the broad courses so that they learn a little bit of everything, and give them a more rigorous education in the field of their choice.) I would say standard lecture is poor way to teach, because it only attacks one of the ways people learn, aural stimuli. I feel interaction, creative examples, and making the learners get involved will stimulate more of the brain, and make them remember more of what they learn, and more of importantly, they will have more of practical applicability for what they learn (history may be an exemption to this idea).

    That's for the broad learning spectrum, but for the specialized education, I'd go more for that apprentice idea, only modified that it would be small groups that will be made to interact with the subject they wish to excel at. Make the education very general up until the equivalent of High School in the U.S., about 10 years of schooling, and then specialize with a less pronounced general education (keep the G.E. for the students who don't make choices as to what they want to learn.) This way, you can gear a student to go into a major that they already have a decent affinity for before they hit college, and have to start the prep period for their major, just need to get some G.E. out of the way. I feel this system also can gear a student perfectly to go into trade school, and become, for example, a plumber, electrician, carpenter, machinist; much quicker than if they hadn't had he specialization in the mid division education (highschool)
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    Personally I hold the sophisticated position that the educational system that creates the least amount of morons is the most desirable, but I don't know if it is the best one.
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  19. #18  
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    It will be great if the schools and the syllabus are standardized and up to dated, supervised by a single authority so that standard is better and quality is maintained.
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    I don't think the US is a very fair thing to determine issuses with. It is a bit of an anomaly. I once read a paper stating all the negative effects of religion and it kept pointing to the US. When I looked at the graphs (that represented all the countries), the US was an outlier. I don't think this is a very good way of doing research.
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