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Thread: Ice caps getting thicker/ edges getting thinner...

  1. #1 Ice caps getting thicker/ edges getting thinner... 
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    Is this the way it is happening?

    I heard somewhere that strange things, such as this, are going on.

    The winds are changing and

    Gawwwwwwwwwwwd knows?!?




    Is there any truth in this?


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  3. #2 Re: Ice caps getting thicker/ edges getting thinner... 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathridesahorse
    Is this the way it is happening?

    I heard somewhere that strange things, such as this, are going on.

    The winds are changing and

    Gawwwwwwwwwwwd knows?!?




    Is there any truth in this?
    Seeing as wind is just the result of temperature and pressure, I'd say yes it is possible. If the temperature increase this means that the wind is to. Which could cause problems if different currents of air change direction. Low pressure is usually due to low temperatures so high temperatures means high pressure which means no wind. So they are changing but getting more thined out over different areas, or so the theory goes. The motion of moelcules in the air is what causes wind, obviously . So the more energy (heat) they have the more they move and the more erratic they become, which also increases pressure.


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  4. #3 Re: Ice caps getting thicker/ edges getting thinner... 
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathridesahorse
    Is this the way it is happening?

    I heard somewhere that strange things, such as this, are going on.

    The winds are changing and

    Gawwwwwwwwwwwd knows?!?




    Is there any truth in this?
    Seeing as wind is just the result of temperature and pressure, I'd say yes it is possible. If the temperature increase this means that the wind is to. Which could cause problems if different currents of air change direction. Low pressure is usually due to low temperatures so high temperatures means high pressure which means no wind. So they are changing but getting more thined out over different areas, or so the theory goes. The motion of moelcules in the air is what causes wind, obviously . So the more energy (heat) they have the more they move and the more erratic they become, which also increases pressure.
    That'll give me something to think about.

    Ta.
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  5. #4  
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    I believe that's correct. Increased precipitation in the inland areas of Greenland and Antarctica, combined with increased melting and glacier speed around the edges is consistent with a warming climate and is predicted by climate models. There's been a net loss of mass over the last ten years, but whether there is a net gain or loss over the long term seems to be unclear. This RealClimate article discusses Greenland, and no doubt you can find others that discuss Antarctica:

    http://www.realclimate.org/index.php...ther-glaciers/
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  6. #5 Re: Ice caps getting thicker/ edges getting thinner... 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathridesahorse
    Is this the way it is happening?

    I heard somewhere that strange things, such as this, are going on.

    The winds are changing and

    Gawwwwwwwwwwwd knows?!?




    Is there any truth in this?
    This is nothing strange. Basic glaciology, in fact. Glaciers flow, and precipitation is dumped in the interior and goes out toward the edges where it melts away, and this equilibrium of accumulation and wastage is a function of climate. Glacier recession is now a response (mainly) to raising temperatures, since climate is not now in equilibrium. If you get warmer air, it can hold more moisture, and you can dump more in the interior and see growth, but with more melt on the edges. This is what is going on in the Arctic, and in parts of Antarctica. Parts of East antarctica seem to be growing due to more precipitation. On a whole, with both ice sheets and glaciers, wastage is going up faster than accumulation and this is resulting in sea level rise.
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  7. #6  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunbury
    I believe that's correct. Increased precipitation in the inland areas of Greenland and Antarctica, combined with increased melting and glacier speed around the edges is consistent with a warming climate and is predicted by climate models. There's been a net loss of mass over the last ten years, but whether there is a net gain or loss over the long term seems to be unclear. This RealClimate article discusses Greenland, and no doubt you can find others that discuss Antarctica:

    http://www.realclimate.org/index.php...ther-glaciers/
    Nice link!
    Women and children can be careless but never men.

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    Use attack as your indestructible spiritual strength.

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    Attack like thunder from the heavens. Retreat like dust of the earth.

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  8. #7 Re: Ice caps getting thicker/ edges getting thinner... 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathridesahorse
    Is this the way it is happening?

    I heard somewhere that strange things, such as this, are going on.

    The winds are changing and

    Gawwwwwwwwwwwd knows?!?




    Is there any truth in this?
    This is nothing strange. Basic glaciology, in fact. Glaciers flow, and precipitation is dumped in the interior and goes out toward the edges where it melts away, and this equilibrium of accumulation and wastage is a function of climate. Glacier recession is now a response (mainly) to raising temperatures, since climate is not now in equilibrium. If you get warmer air, it can hold more moisture, and you can dump more in the interior and see growth, but with more melt on the edges. This is what is going on in the Arctic, and in parts of Antarctica. Parts of East antarctica seem to be growing due to more precipitation. On a whole, with both ice sheets and glaciers, wastage is going up faster than accumulation and this is resulting in sea level rise.
    Very interesting, Chris.

    Ta.

    Just wondering why warm air can hold more water?
    Women and children can be careless but never men.

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  9. #8  
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    Just wondering why warm air can hold more water?
    It is less dense, so more space for water vapour. Same reason you can dissolve more of something in hot water than in cold.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

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  10. #9  
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    Just wondering why warm air can hold more water?
    It is less dense, so more space for water vapour. Same reason you can dissolve more of something in hot water than in cold.
    Surely it is due to the fact that as air cools, water vapour condenses and falls out. Warm air can hold more, because warm water vapour has sufficient energy to stay gaseous.

    Or am I blowing steam? :wink:
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  11. #10  
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    Sorry, blank post
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

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  12. #11  
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    Or am I blowing steam?
    No, sounds right :wink: Combo of both? :?
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

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  13. #12  
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    Just wondering why warm air can hold more water?
    It is less dense, so more space for water vapour. Same reason you can dissolve more of something in hot water than in cold.
    I didnt think you could; I always thought that heat was merely a catalyst in making a solution. Correct me if im wrong.
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  14. #13  
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    I think FR has it right. It's nothing to do with the space between air molecules; it's just that at warmer temperatures molecules have more energy and more of them can remain in the vapor phase.
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  15. #14  
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    I think FR has it right. It's nothing to do with the space between air molecules; it's just that at warmer temperatures molecules have more energy and more of them can remain in the vapor phase.
    Damn. Noted
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  16. #15  
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    Googling around, I found this. I haven't read the whole thing, but it seems reasonable. (See Myth No. 2)

    http://www.shorstmeyer.com/wxfaqs/hu.../humidity.html
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  17. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    I think FR has it right. It's nothing to do with the space between air molecules; it's just that at warmer temperatures molecules have more energy and more of them can remain in the vapor phase.
    Damn. Noted
    I thank you for responding so quickly to my aid.

    Good science boys and girls!

    Women and children can be careless but never men.

    Everything is OK in the end. If it's not OK it's not the end.

    Use attack as your indestructible spiritual strength.

    Awareness is the spirit. Attack is the foundation of thought.

    Attack like thunder from the heavens. Retreat like dust of the earth.

    "An don' let any girlie boys tell yo dif'runt"
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  18. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    I think FR has it right. It's nothing to do with the space between air molecules; it's just that at warmer temperatures molecules have more energy and more of them can remain in the vapor phase.
    Damn. Noted
    Actually, read the link Bunbury posted: you may not be wrong after all.

    But then, we may be on a wild goose chase because it also says that warm air holding more water is a fallacy.

    Oh, I am confused so!!!!!
    Then again, you may be wrong but for other reasons!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?
    Women and children can be careless but never men.

    Everything is OK in the end. If it's not OK it's not the end.

    Use attack as your indestructible spiritual strength.

    Awareness is the spirit. Attack is the foundation of thought.

    Attack like thunder from the heavens. Retreat like dust of the earth.

    "An don' let any girlie boys tell yo dif'runt"
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  19. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathridesahorse
    But then, we may be on a wild goose chase because it also says that warm air holding more water is a fallacy.
    I think they're being pedantic about the meaning of "holding". In a purely scientific sense they are right, but in the sense of "containing" rather than "sticking like glue" I don't see anything wrong with saying air holds water.
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  20. #19  
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    In a technical sense, the best way to say it is that the water vapor increases in temperature, and this results in a higher saturation (or maximum) vapor pressure (ie it takes more to condense).

    Vapor pressure in equilibrium with a water surface increases exponentially with temperature at a rate in accord with Clausius-Clapeyron relationship. All gases are condensible at low enough temperatures and/or high enough pressures. CO2, for example, is condensible on Mars though not in present-day Earth climate. This happens when the partial pressure of a gas is equal to the saturation vapor pressure (Psat). Psat increases with temperature, since molecules move faster and it becomes more difficult for condensation.
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