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Thread: clarity

  1. #1 clarity 
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    an open question on the validation of geological so called truths.

    If at one point in the history of our planet clouds from volcano or resulting clouds from asteriods collision clouded our planet from sunlight causing the destruction of all life, then how did life reamerge.

    example, if lack of sunlight cause all plant life to die this death would include plants even to the seed, how then after millions of years of this lack of sunlight could a plant in any of its forms reappear millions of years later out of non exsistence.


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  3. #2 Re: clarity 
    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by curious1
    ... example, if lack of sunlight cause all plant life to die this death would include plants even to the seed, ...
    this is the weak point of your argument : seeds don't need sunlight to survive - they're survival capsules par excellence, and only wait for suitable conditions to revive

    for example there was this fire in a museum that was put out by the fire brigade, and the water doused some of the egyptian exhibits - result : some seeds from egyptian times sprouted into life

    i'm not sure what the record is, but nearly 5000 years is pretty good going and there's no evidence that this is the limit of what seeds are capable of


    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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  4. #3  
    Forum Ph.D. Cat1981(England)'s Avatar
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    Welcome to the forum.

    Some ecosystems survive with a compete absence of light.

    Is this a hypothetical question ?
    Eat Dolphin, save the Tuna!!!!
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    Looks like you proved his point. I think you misunderstood what he was saying.

    If I read him right, maybe I'm the one who misunderstands, he was implying that all life was supposedly killed do to this event yet it came back. His example was that all life being killed implies plant life even down to the seeds.

    You show that killing plants down to the seed is improbable, which I agree btw, proving his point. Obviously all life was not killed during this event. Severely knocked back yes but not killed outright.
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  6. #5  
    Forum Ph.D. Cat1981(England)'s Avatar
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    Well life came out of nothing before, i can't see any reason why it wouldn't come about again.
    Eat Dolphin, save the Tuna!!!!
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  7. #6 Re: clarity 
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by curious1
    If at one point in the history of our planet clouds from volcano or resulting clouds from asteriods collision clouded our planet from sunlight causing the destruction of all life, then how did life reamerge.
    There is no period in the Earth's history, following the emergence of eukaryotes (cells with the DNA in a nucleus) in which any event led to the destruction of all life.
    This may well have occured during the first 800 miilion years of the Earth's existence when there were frequent massive impacts on the Earth that evaporated the oceans, blew of the atmosphere, and melted the surface of the Earth to the depth of miles. Once this was over, ending at the end of the Heavy Bombardment period, life has successfully handled the global ice ages, the bolide impacts, the climatic dramas, and the vast volcanic episodes.
    The restriction of sunlight would have occured for years, or tens of years, not thousands, and certainly not millions of years. Plenty of smaller, adaptable creatures would have survived, as would the seeds of many plants. After the dinosaurs went there is an enormous blossoming of ferns, which are opportunistic plants that often are the first to appear after an area has been ravaged by fire.
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  8. #7  
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    Ophiolite made a case that the situation never came up.

    Hypothetically, however, which organisms would be able to survive an Earth-wide lack of sunlight and the resulting drop of surface temperature for a period of thousands of years?

    this is the weak point of your argument : seeds don't need sunlight to survive
    I think they do, or do you know of any seed that survives the extremely low temperature they would experience on the Earth's surface? The internal heat from the core will help just a little on the surface, exposed to complete darkness for thousands of years. As for Egyptian seeds that survived in a protected and heated environment: Are they even winter hardy on high latitudes (not to speak of sub -100 deg C)?

    My guess is that organisms that thrive at the bottom of deep oceans or organisms that directly benefit from internal heat (maybe near geysirs?) would be the most likely survivors, but even there I am not sure.

    Yes, it's a hypothetical question.
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  9. #8  
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    Chemoautotrophs, extremophiles which live without the need for sunlight, exist e.g. at hydrothermal vents in the deep ocean. These life forms can theoretically exist outside the "habitable zone" of a solar system.
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  10. #9  
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    please forgive, the question i posed was not meant for philosophical discussion about seeds. i was questioning the widely accepted explanation as to how due to this event, that happened. This being climatic change due to volcanic eruption, or asteriod impact. That being the desruction of all life. Again after the total destruction for whatever cause, how could any life be reborn. in Math terms;

    0=no life, times any stated period of time = 0


    thank you all for your replys to my question. If i may make a suggestion try not to be so linear in your thoughts, i know its hard to do but try, after all the same good folks who told you that no two snowflakes are alike are the same folks who filled your mind with other well meaning nonsense.
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  11. #10  
    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by curious1
    thank you all for your replys to my question. If i may make a suggestion try not to be so linear in your thoughts, i know its hard to do but try, after all the same good folks who told you that no two snowflakes are alike are the same folks who filled your mind with other well meaning nonsense.
    when replying try not to be so condescending
    all i was saying was that once life is established, it's bloody hard to extinguish it - never mind multicellular life, anything that extinguishes bacteria will make the earth unlivable full stop
    for starters, you would have to make the top few hundred yards of crust unlivable to get rid of the lithotrophic bacteria there - to do so would probably require the removal of the top layer of the crust + the oceans
    anything that can accomplish that would in effect sterilise the earth + get rid of the atmosphere and hydrosphere in 1 fell swoop

    tbh, if something that gargantuan happened, i don't see the earth recover from that to redevelop life
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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  12. #11  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by curious1
    i was questioning the widely accepted explanation as to how due to this event, that happened. This being climatic change due to volcanic eruption, or asteriod impact. That being the desruction of all life.
    And I was explaining that no scientist on the face of the planet believes, or has ever believed, that the event, or events, that led to the demise of the dinosaurs actually killed all life. This is sufficiently far from the truth as to fall into the category labelled arrant nonsense.

    I suspect you may have picked this notion up from third rate popular science works. [I can't really imagine where else you could have encountered the idea.] As a starting point you might find the Wikipedia articles on mass extinction would provide better insight.

    It might also be a good idea, as a new forum member, to get to know the general tone and tenor here before you begin dispensing somewhat supercilious advice. That will reduce the risk that you appear foolish.

    At any rate, welcome to the forum.
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