14Likes
September 10th, 2009, 03:40 PM
Last night I watched an episode of "Destination Truth" that contained a story about the allegedly haunted Hoia Baciu forest in Romania that contains a large circular area where nothing grows. The investigators took a sample of soil inside the circle & one outside of it. The analysis revealed no differences between the two samples. My question is this. What else could account for the circle if the soil is fine?
September 10th, 2009, 03:51 PM
Don't trust the claims of a TV show.Originally Posted by WVBIG
September 10th, 2009, 03:55 PM
AARRGGHHH!!!! Does nobody on this damn forum understand what a documentary is???Don't trust the claims of a TV show.
September 10th, 2009, 03:56 PM
Don't trust the claims of a TV "documentary".AARRGGHHH!!!! Does nobody on this damn forum understand what a documentary is???Don't trust the claims of a TV show.
September 10th, 2009, 04:02 PM
Then I guess everybody should quit wasting their money supporting PBS then if everything on tv is BS. Science is the biggest money making scam of all. Nothing that isn't in one of your precious peer reviewed publications is worth anything & those aren't accessible to the public for freeDon't trust the claims of a TV "documentary".AARRGGHHH!!!! Does nobody on this damn forum understand what a documentary is???Don't trust the claims of a TV show.
No, it's just that TV-anything is an inherently flawed way to educate yourself on, um, anything. PBS also has a problem with running OLD documentaries, or documentaries with developing evidence, OR documentaries that're just pure bullshit. Frankly, I've never seen anything on TV worth watching, OR trusting.
Ever heard of "Cable In The Classroom"? And if you want to talk old. In 12 years of school, I don't recall ever having a textbook that was even close to new
I have, and it's one of the more retarded concepts. How about "classrooms outdoors"?
As for textbooks, I possess a wide variety from very ancient (often 1700>) sources. Sometimes, old ones really are better. In either case, the main issue with TV is the lack of ability to verify claims as they're being made. Doing so requires repeated pausing of TV, and before the advent of that ability and the Internet, it was even worse.
not long ago, i was on a long-distance flight that had a wide variety of films and TV shows (including "science" documentaries) - i tried all of them and with none of them did i manage to stick it for more than 5 minutes
the science is so dumbed down, and the emphasis on personal anecdotes and special effects so pervasive that their information content is even lower than your average science story in a newspaper
hence my suspicion of those who only get their science education from TV documentaries
Obviously, because plants are afraid of ghosts.Why won't plants grow here?
"Q" is becoming an influence on you
September 10th, 2009, 05:39 PM
The fun in fooling gullible people who 'want to believe' whether it be in 'haunted forests'or in leprechauns.
As Marx would say (Not Karl, but Groucho)
Booga...Booga...Booga
You need to recalibrate your baloney detector.
You sound like my algebra 1 teacher. So intelligent that he could solve a 6' long agebraic equation in his head, But couldn't realize that not everyone is that intelligent. Therefore he was a rotten teacher to anyone that actually needed instruction
Because I made a joke? :?"Q" is becoming an influence on you
Anyway, can you remember what tests they performed on the soil?
I was kidding about "Q"Because I made a joke? :?"Q" is becoming an influence on you
Anyway, can you remember what tests they performed on the soil?They were sent to a lab to see if there were any differences between the sample taken inside the area where nothing grows & the sample taken from a normal area of the forest. No differences were found
What exactly are you waiting to be revealed? That, as stated above, that it's haunted and the reason is ghosts or evil spirits?You sound like my algebra 1 teacher. So intelligent that he could solve a 6' long agebraic equation in his head, But couldn't realize that not everyone is that intelligent. Therefore he was a rotten teacher to anyone that actually needed instruction
How does Santa bring toys to all the good kids on Christmas Eve? Answer....he doesn't...it's baloney.
What is unique about this'barren ground where nothing will grow? Answer...the ground isn't barren...it's baloney. You are gullible and easily fooled
What part of 'baloney' don't you get? There is no explanation because your premise is wrong.
Ok, but do you have any idea what kind of tests were done? Did they test for all kinds of chemicals that might be causing it? Did they check for fungus maybe? At what depths were the samples taken? Also, one would be hard pressed to find a single lab that would be able to check for the full variety of possible differences in one. It can span across multiple disciplines.
All I know is they were looking for differences between the two samples. The samples were taken from like the top 3" of soil. Since this was a remote area of an underdeveloped country, I doubt chemical contamination is the culprit. But that's why I'm asking. I'm looking for possible logical explanations & so far, nobody here has offered one
There are several:I'm looking for possible logical explanations & so far, nobody here has offered one
My question becomes pretty relevant then. How do you know they checked for all possibilities? Like I said, chances are against a single lab being able to do the full spectrum of appropriate tests. Did they even expound on which lab they sent it to, or did they just refer to the place as "the lab"?All I know is they were looking for differences between the two samples.
That isn't really deep enough, don't you think? Was the area clear of even the smallest shoot, animals (including ants and such) or fungus?The samples were taken from like the top 3" of soil.
How remote was it exactly? One thing about underdeveloped countries is that their environmental policies are lax and/or lack the necessary resources to properly police dumping of toxins and poisonous wastes. A remote area is precisely where an unscrupulous company might choose to dump its wastes.Since this was a remote area of an underdeveloped country, I doubt chemical contamination is the culprit.
maybe so - but the way science is portrayed in the popular media has often very little to do with how science really works, hence if someone wants to find out about science, the media are often the last place to look for itYou sound like my algebra 1 teacher. So intelligent that he could solve a 6' long agebraic equation in his head, But couldn't realize that not everyone is that intelligent. Therefore he was a rotten teacher to anyone that actually needed instruction
as for making science accessible to the wider public, i'm all for it (after all, my 2 favourite science writers are Isaac Asimov and Carl Sagan), but you have to ask yourself the question : how far can you water down wine before it's more water than wine ?
not as "remote" as some would have you believe, if new housing developments are on its border ...
from - http://www.property-abroad.com/roman...g/PA53-AZU3WUY
apart from a number of companies selling these apartments, and paranormal discussion groups rehashing this and earlier stories, I couldn't find any reports of studies done into the area, nor of a circular "dead zone" ... though UFO sightings have been mentioned ...The Fontana Residence will consist of 65 apartments spread over 5 floors, including the ground floor. The apartments vary in size, are 1 or 2 bedrooms and all have 1 bathroom. 40 apartments have allocated underground parking each with a hydraulic lift and a storage room. The other 25 apartments will have allocated exterior parking. It will be a gated community with a security guard post and key code entry...
Set within beautiful natural gardens with cherry trees, wild roses, waterfalls and a BBQ area, the Fontana Residence is in a conservation area and backs onto the Hoia-Baciu Forest National Park, and is close to the river Somesul that runs through Cluj.
The link you provided, refers to the apartments in the future tense. Could it be that the reason no studies have been done, except by paranormal groups, is because mainstream science refuses to even consider the possibility that something odd is going on there?not as "remote" as some would have you believe, if new housing developments are on its border ...
from - http://www.property-abroad.com/roman...g/PA53-AZU3WUY
apart from a number of companies selling these apartments, and paranormal discussion groups rehashing this and earlier stories, I couldn't find any reports of studies done into the area, nor of a circular "dead zone" ... though UFO sightings have been mentioned ...The Fontana Residence will consist of 65 apartments spread over 5 floors, including the ground floor. The apartments vary in size, are 1 or 2 bedrooms and all have 1 bathroom. 40 apartments have allocated underground parking each with a hydraulic lift and a storage room. The other 25 apartments will have allocated exterior parking. It will be a gated community with a security guard post and key code entry...
Set within beautiful natural gardens with cherry trees, wild roses, waterfalls and a BBQ area, the Fontana Residence is in a conservation area and backs onto the Hoia-Baciu Forest National Park, and is close to the river Somesul that runs through Cluj.
The soil samples were tested at Wallace Laboratories in Los Angeles, California. You can watch the episode at this link if you like:
http://www.fancast.com/tv/Destinatio...t--Alux/videos
September 11th, 2009, 03:40 PM
I still don't understand what teachers and homework have to do with your misunderstanding? Red Herring.
yes, quite a lot of recent developments going on as the city expands -
you did know that this "remote" area is part of the suburban fringe of a regional city, didn't you?
from - http://www.metronews.ca/vancouver/co...article/183708
from - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cluj-NapocaThe Hoia-Baciu Forest (HBF), located a few kilometres outside of the city of Cluj Napoca, is rumoured to be a hot bed of unexplained supernatural activity.
As of January 1, 2009, 306,474 inhabitants live within the city limits,[3] a decrease from the figure recorded at the 2002 census.[5] The Cluj-Napoca metropolitan area has a population of 379,705 people,[6] while the population of the peri-urban area (Romanian: zona periurbană) exceeds 400,000 residents.[7] The new metropolitan government of Cluj-Napoca became operational in December 2008.[8] Lastly, according to the 2007 data provided by the County Population Register Service, the total population of the city is as high as 392,276 people.[9] However, this number does not include the floating population of students and other non-residents—an average of over 20 thousand people each year during 2004-2007, according to the same source.[9]
The city spreads out from St. Michael's Church in Unirii Square, built in the 14th century and named after the Archangel Michael, the patron saint of Cluj-Napoca.[10] The boundaries of the municipality contain an area of 179.52 square kilometres (69.31 sq mi). An analysis undertaken by the real estate agency Profesional Casa indicates that, because of infrastructure development, communes such as Feleacu, Vâlcele, Mărtineşti, Jucu and Baciu will eventually become neighbourhoods of the city, thereby enlarging its area.[11]
from - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cluj-Napoca#Surroundings
Cluj-Napoca is an important node in the European road network, being on three different European routes (E60, E81 and E576). At a national level, Cluj-Napoca is located on three different main national roads: DN1, DN1C and DN1F.
from - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cluj-Napoca#Geography
The city is surrounded by forests and grasslands. Rare species of plants, such as Venus's slipper and iris, are found in the two botanical reservations of Cluj-Napoca, Fânaţele Clujului and Rezervaţia Valea Morii ("Mill Valley Reservation").[66] Animals such as boars, badgers, foxes, rabbits and squirrels live in nearby forest areas such as Făget and Hoia. The latter forest hosts the Romulus Vuia ethnographical park, with exhibits dating back to 1678.[67] Various people report alien encounters in the Hoia-Baciu forest, large networks of catacombs that connect the old churches of the city, or the presence of a monster in the nearby lake of Tarniţa.[68][69]
I doubt it ... scientists make their reputations by explaining the anomaly - the "odd" bits that don't conform to contemporary theory ...
it's more likely that no reports have been published because something odd isn't going on there ...
........
Wallace Labs, Calif.
from - http://www.bettersoils.com/
Wallace Laboratories' agronomic soil analysis not only includes pH, salinity, the concentration of soluble salts, and sodium but also for all 14 essential nutrients and over a dozen toxic metals including arsenic, cadmium, lead, and mercury at no extra cost. Recommendations and interpretations are also provided with the report. Plant Tissues are analyzed to optimize the growing conditions and to fine tune your landscaping site.
There must have been a huge difference. The "nothing grows" soil would contain no humus (i.e. stuff that grew and died there) and so be infertile. Soil fertility largly depends on things growing/decaying. A "no difference" topsoil then would be made of dead organic matter that somehow never grew?
I don't know what happened there, but the soil can be ammended with compost.
I just contacted the main scientist at the lab that did the testing on the soil samples and found out they didn't test for the fungus that has been found in soil samples from alleged UFO landing spots & what used to be known as "Fairy circles" My guess is if they had done that test, they would've solved the mystery
Fair guess.
Did you ask what they did test for? I'd love to know.
I didn't ask specifically, but their website says they test for:
1)Soil Acidity
2)Presence of Limestone
3)Lime Requirement
4)Excess salts in the soil
5)Excessive Sodium
6)Gypsum Requirement
7)Fertility
8)Toxicity
9)Soil Compaction
http://www.bettersoils.com/soil_testing.cfm
This certainly has the aura of a made up story. The soil tests and claims of remoteness are done to "validate the fiction".
The claim of soil samples being the same is kind of funny. Soil samples across a field have a wide variety of results even in fields growing a monoculture.
Also, understand that in tests it is possible and reasonable to assign non-numerical values to a test. A soil might be given 3 ratings for pH: basic, neutral, and acidic. No numbers at all. Presence of limestone might be a yes/no answer. Excess salts might be yes/no as well.
Number 6 is gypsum requirement. That's a salt.
One of the X files also had this same situation except it was in the US in Georgia.
September 23rd, 2009, 01:49 AM
The test doesn't show the soil is fine. It just shows that the limited set of parameters which they tested were the same.
September 23rd, 2009, 08:05 AM
Right. The same in the area where nothing grows as in the adjacent forested regionThe test doesn't show the soil is fine. It just shows that the limited set of parameters which they tested were the same.
Why are you so sure that there isn't a prosaic answer to this issue?I just contacted the main scientist at the lab that did the testing on the soil samples and found out they didn't test for the fungus that has been found in soil samples from alleged UFO landing spots & what used to be known as "Fairy circles" My guess is if they had done that test, they would've solved the mystery
First I went to Google maps and looked at the site. Very easy to find and near a road, a 200m walk. It is not perfectly round and it is the color of the surrounding fields. That sure appears to be plant life growing in the open area. There is exposed soil in the fields and it is not the color of the open area in the forest.
Sure sounds like someone has been duped by a poorly made show.
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Minus the fact of WV bigfoot guy using paranormal answers to explain which, why on a science forum would you use to explain something?, he's not totally wrong. The paranormal stuff I don't know if it's true or not since nothing has occurred to me to believe. Seems to me it sounds like mass hysteria like the dark entrance forest in, I believe, Connecticut. The circle, however, interests me since it had been there for hundreds of years and there is accounts where it is mentioned in old Transylvania therefore it has been evident there long before the show touched upon it. There should be humas since people have tried to plant things there but they just die and therefore decompose. It gives off an odd thermal hit as well like there is tin foil absorbing the suns warm there or radiation leaking through but no such evidence has been found. Other scientific have taken soil samples as well with nothing found to be odd, the soil seems to be the same as farms in the area have in their fields. Other parts of the forest has trees that look to be charred, now I do not know if they are actually charred or something is making them look charred since I have not investigated myself. I am wondering if something biological is there that, when in high doses can kill trees, and in smaller doses corrupts them, or has that charring effect. My question is, is there anything we know about that can do this?<br>
"We can't detect any difference" does not mean "the soil is fine." If they didn't test for salts, and the soil was salty, it would look fine but nothing would grow there. If it was acidic, and they didn't test for pH, then nothing would grow there. If they didn't test for lead, arsenic, mercury, zinc, PAH's, dioxins, peroxides, herbicides etc and any one of those substances were present then the soil would look find but nothing would grow there.
AARRGGHHH!!!! Does nobody on this damn forum understand what a documentary is???[Adam Savage] Well...there's yer problem [/Adam Savage]Destination Truth is a weekly American paranormal reality television series that premiered on June 6, 2007, on Syfy
Really? Really? You consider a show on Syfy to be a "documentary"?
Last edited by MacGyver1968; October 9th, 2013 at 06:22 PM.
Hmm...after a little google-fu. It seems "nothing grows there" is a bit of an overstatement.
Looks like grass or other small plants grow there...just not trees.
A shallower layer of soil over a rocky outcrop would provide a base for grass, but be too shallow to support trees.
That sounds like a logical explanation for why the soils could be identical, yet no trees grow. I couldn't find a close up of the site.
When they say the soil is identical, what does that mean? Which chemicals did they test for? Who did the analysis?
It's obviously a landing pad...
Have you considered alien UFO's? Checking the thread I see that you have.
I don't know what they are or where they come from, but they fly in these metal things and when they land the soil is sometimes scorched, irradiated, or a combination of each. And they are definitely here.
P.S. Aliens.
Destination truth is not a documentary. They are a sensationalist ratings fed woo factory feeding the gullible and making money off of naivety. They are barely even science fiction. These guys are not scientists and likely don't know the first thing about how to take a proper soil sample. Probably did something along the lines of looking at it and seeing that the dirt was brown both inside and outside the circle determined that they were identical. Those guys are a joke.AARRGGHHH!!!! Does nobody on this damn forum understand what a documentary is???Don't trust the claims of a TV show.
And did they observe, naked eye or microscope, the same ecology of worms, microbes, fungi, burrowing animals that makes an active, living, fertile soil.When they say the soil is identical, what does that mean? Which chemicals did they test for? Who did the analysis?
I found this on trip adviser. Apparently a vacationer hoping to find some mysterious woo at said location was left disappointed.
A beautiful place for a walk and view - Review of Hoia Baciu Forest, Cluj-Napoca, Romania - TripAdvisor
We were there a week ago, hoping to find something mystic in this forest, based on what we have read.
Un(?) fortunately, we did not feel any out of this world energy (neither auto-suggested, I personally tried, but it just did not work), no-one was "watching us". The presumably "perfectly round circle where nothing grows" and which should be the most haunted place of all the forest turned out to be a pretty cute small clearing (not really circle shaped) with grass and butterflies.
Instead of bizarre voices we heard birds and the only thing that scared me was spider net into which I ran by chance.
The place is magic - yes - but by its beauty and position. The natural magic of the forest was able to transform horrible town hot (37°C) summer day, to a calm, joyful and nice place to be.
When we came out, the view was just beautiful.
Visited August 2013
We have a dying tree in our back yard that looks burned down one side. I thought maybe it had been hit by lightening but over time i have seen the "burned" area grow and watched the bark gradually fall away. One day I kicked it and a huge piece of bark came off and it was filled with what looked like rows and rows of some sort of insect eggs or tiny larva. And there was some sort of ants all over the place under the bark. So basically it's being killed by a nest of ants that took up residence under it's bark. and the wood looks charred where the bark has fallen away.<br>
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Minus the fact of WV bigfoot guy using paranormal answers to explain which, why on a science forum would you use to explain something?, he's not totally wrong. The paranormal stuff I don't know if it's true or not since nothing has occurred to me to believe. Seems to me it sounds like mass hysteria like the dark entrance forest in, I believe, Connecticut. The circle, however, interests me since it had been there for hundreds of years and there is accounts where it is mentioned in old Transylvania therefore it has been evident there long before the show touched upon it. There should be humas since people have tried to plant things there but they just die and therefore decompose. It gives off an odd thermal hit as well like there is tin foil absorbing the suns warm there or radiation leaking through but no such evidence has been found. Other scientific have taken soil samples as well with nothing found to be odd, the soil seems to be the same as farms in the area have in their fields. Other parts of the forest has trees that look to be charred, now I do not know if they are actually charred or something is making them look charred since I have not investigated myself. I am wondering if something biological is there that, when in high doses can kill trees, and in smaller doses corrupts them, or has that charring effect. My question is, is there anything we know about that can do this?<br>
Aliens must be landing 1/2 meter sized ships in my front yard, because I have a near perfect circle where the grass is brown.
Gosh dern aliens...if you learned anything from "King of the Hill" is that you don't mess with a Texas man's St. Augustine.
I know this is an old post, but I saw the episode you're talking about and I am in a soil science class in college. Unfortunately, Destination Truth was mostly created to bring more viewers to the channel, and some of their coverages didn't tell you what the exact results were. Soil science can be very complicated and if you don't test every single aspect (physical, chemical, layers, composition, clay/silt/sand, etc) then your results can be inconclusive. I hope to one day travel there and get a sample for myself, then I could say whether or not I agree with what they said on the show. Until then, I remain skeptical.
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