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Thread: How did the Oceans form?

  1. #101  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chucknorium View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hannah40 View Post
    The volcanos underground have been partly responsible for the gradual upbuilding of land .
    this sounds like 'expanding earth' theory. what is your source for this staement ?

    and what is an 'underground' volcano ?
    lol, sorry, 'Undersea' not underground. The source, I cannot retrieve because I didn't bookmark.
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  2. #102  
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    Quote Originally Posted by hannah40 View Post
    The source, I cannot retrieve because I didn't bookmark.
    that is convenient. so it is pretty much BS then.
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  3. #103  
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    As is post #100, water molecules do not change size with temperature significantly enough to affect climate change.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhDemon View Post
    As is post #100, water molecules do not change size with temperature significantly enough to affect climate change.
    I didn't say the molecule size affected climate change but could it have an effect on rising water levels or even current shift?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chucknorium View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hannah40 View Post
    The source, I cannot retrieve because I didn't bookmark.
    that is convenient. so it is pretty much BS then.
    I was out of order with the comment. Apologies from myself, to you.
    Last edited by hannah40; April 15th, 2014 at 10:25 AM.
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  6. #106  
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    OK, in that case it is irrelevant as the change in molecular size is many orders of magnitude smaller than the change in distance between the molecules resulting from the effect of temperature on density (which is due to the effect of faster translational motion inhibiting hydrogen bond formation and nothing to do with molecular size).
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  7. #107  
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    Quote Originally Posted by hannah40 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chucknorium View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hannah40 View Post
    The source, I cannot retrieve because I didn't bookmark.
    that is convenient. so it is pretty much BS then.
    Did your parents drop you on your head when you were born?
    cut the BS and give a citation for your statements. 'i did not bookmark them' is just an excuse. or did you make up that 'expanding earth' stuff yourself ?
    Last edited by Chucknorium; April 6th, 2014 at 01:46 PM.
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  8. #108  
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    no citation coming soon. hannah40 was suspended.
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  9. #109  
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    Quote Originally Posted by hannah40 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chucknorium View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hannah40 View Post
    The volcanos underground have been partly responsible for the gradual upbuilding of land .
    this sounds like 'expanding earth' theory. what is your source for this staement ?

    and what is an 'underground' volcano ?
    lol, sorry, 'Undersea' not underground. The source, I cannot retrieve because I didn't bookmark.
    I do not know what Hannah's precise thinking is on this point, but superficially she is absolutely correct.

    The continental masses are a product of the evolution of the Earth through tectonics and geochemistry. Initially it is likely that the Earth was covered almost entirely by water. (Once temperatures had dropped sufficiently to permit liquid water.) As fractionation of magma sources produced silica rich and therefore buoyant materials these would form the early continents and produce the first land surfaces. I'm not clear why you doubt this.
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  10. #110  
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hannah40 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chucknorium View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hannah40 View Post
    The volcanos underground have been partly responsible for the gradual upbuilding of land .
    this sounds like 'expanding earth' theory. what is your source for this staement ?

    and what is an 'underground' volcano ?
    lol, sorry, 'Undersea' not underground. The source, I cannot retrieve because I didn't bookmark.
    I do not know what Hannah's precise thinking is on this point, but superficially she is absolutely correct.

    The continental masses are a product of the evolution of the Earth through tectonics and geochemistry. Initially it is likely that the Earth was covered almost entirely by water. (Once temperatures had dropped sufficiently to permit liquid water.) As fractionation of magma sources produced silica rich and therefore buoyant materials these would form the early continents and produce the first land surfaces. I'm not clear why you doubt this.

    Thank you John.
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    It would be nice to see a response from you, Chucknorium. My impression is that you jumped on what she was saying because she was developing a reputation for talking nonsense, rather than for talking nonsense. I may be doing you a disservice by suggesting that and it is only fair you have a chance to respond.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Surprised no one addressed this yet.

    Most of the water in the oceans was probably already on the planet during it's early accretion and/or collision with the body that ultimately created our moon. Most of the lighter materials, including the volatiles such as water vapor ended up on the surface by gravitational separation or volcanic out gassing. Unlike Mars for example, our gravity is high enough that we don't loose much H2 from upper atmospheric photo dissociation. Also we continue to receive some water from meteor comet ice.
    but we are loosing H2. also you said "most of the water"...what does it mean? that some water was on early earth or...
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    Quote Originally Posted by antidote View Post
    but we are loosing H2. also you said "most of the water"...what does it mean? that some water was on early earth or...

    Concerning the former sentence, the loss of H2 is tiny:
    Quote Originally Posted by Scientific American
    Although Earth’s atmosphere may seem as permanent as the rocks, it gradually leaks back into space. The loss rate is currently tiny, only about three kilograms of hydrogen and 50 grams of helium (the two lightest gases) per second (...)

    Concerning the latter, it is likely that he meant that the majority of the water on Earth was already present during the earliest periods on the geologic calender.
    I gave more information about that in another thread (cf. post #4).
    "The only safe rule is to dispute only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong."

    ~ Arthur Schopenhauer, The Art of Being Right: 38 Ways to Win an Argument (1831), Stratagem XXXVIII.
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    cogito ergo sum,
    lets say that abiotic origin of oil is right, when we make petroleum out of methane, hydrogen is leftout. hydrogen took oxygen from surrounded minerals and produce water. water dissolve silicate and sodium (salt perhaps being made). salt is lighter so it can rise trough magma. pressure force water upward. just if we look on earth as giant oven. we have all ingredients inside early earth. correct me if im wrong.
    Last edited by antidote; August 20th, 2014 at 05:37 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by antidote View Post
    cogito ergo sum,
    lets say that abiotic origin of oil is right, when we make petroleum out of methane, hydrogen is leftout. hydrogen took oxygen from surrounded minerals and produce water. water dissolve silicate and sodium (salt perhaps being made). salt is lighter so it can rise trough magma. pressure force water upward. just if we look on earth as giant oven. we have all ingredients inside early earth. correct me if im wrong.

    I cannot follow your train of thought, to be honest.
    "The only safe rule is to dispute only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong."

    ~ Arthur Schopenhauer, The Art of Being Right: 38 Ways to Win an Argument (1831), Stratagem XXXVIII.
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  16. #116  
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    Quote Originally Posted by antidote View Post
    cogito ergo sum,
    lets say that abiotic origin of oil is right, when we make petroleum out of methane, hydrogen is leftout. hydrogen took oxygen from surrounded minerals and produce water. water dissolve silicate and sodium (salt perhaps being made). salt is lighter so it can rise trough magma. pressure force water upward. just if we look on earth as giant oven. we have all ingredients inside early earth. correct me if im wrong.
    That would be entirely dependent on the debunked postulate of abiotic oil formation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cogito Ergo Sum View Post
    it is likely that he meant that the majority of the water on Earth was already present during the earliest periods on the geologic calender.
    I gave more information about that in another thread (cf. post #4).
    maybe evidence is a little bit too much, maybe "hints" would be more adequate, cause there are also hints that later on there was no more water on earth... had it never been there or had it been gone? maybe the formation of oceans was a multi stage thing, not happening once but again and again as often until earth was cold and stable enough to keep the oceans.
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    The sea framed billions of years back. Over huge timeframes, our crude seas shaped. Water remained a gas until the point that the Earth cooled underneath 212 degrees Fahrenheit . As of now, about 3.8 billion years back, the water dense into rain which filled the bowls that are currently our seas. Most researchers concur that the climate and the seas collected steadily more than a huge number of years with the persistent 'degassing' of the Earth's inside. As indicated by this hypothesis, the sea framed from the getaway of water vapor and different gases from the liquid rocks of the Earth to the climate encompassing the cooling planet. After the Earth's surface had cooled to a temperature underneath the breaking point of water, rain started to fall and kept on succumbing to hundreds of years. As the water depleted into the extraordinary hollows in the Earth's surface, the primitive sea appeared. The powers of gravity kept the water from leaving the planet.
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    The early earth was a molten metallic and rock core about 7 000 miles in diameter with an ocean of hydrogen, helium, and oxygen thousands, up to tens of thousands of miles deep much like the gas giant planets, but much smaller, and much hotter. The gravity could not hold that gas at that heat. so it lost most of it which took the greatest of the heat with it. It eventually cooled enough for molecules of water to form in a gaseous state. that combined with other gasses dissolved in liquid rocks has been sequestered still today. but eventually the molten rock core cooled enough for solid rock to form. There was a period of solid rock creation and destruction in the liquid volcanic hellscape that was the "surface" of the time till the surface cooled enough for solid rock to survive to today. The earliest such survivors are called cratons. They grew by more rock cooling on them, and became the cores of most of today's continents. Most of the surface was still a hot liquid rock surface, and deep hot dense mixed gas ocean with some growing cratons. Eventually some spots cooled enough for some gas to condense. It hit the surface and vaporized again instantly. But eventually Some 3.5 billion years ago enough cooled for its existence to be recorded in rocks that survive to today. That water probably didn't remain long. But only a few hundreds of thousands, no more than a million years later, it was cool enough for more to remain liquid than vaporized back into gas, and form shallow seas which we see the remains of today, and to grow into oceans. The cratons carrying the continents have drifted around, and shallow seas have come and gone. But the ocean(s) existed for billions of years.

    Get the picture? A lot outgassed while hot, and the remains are protected by the by the cool and the magnetic field.
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  20. #120  
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    There are many theories around the world for the formation of the ocean so as science students, I get confused that which theory is right and have some sense about that. If any buddy knows the proper place where i can get the whole collection of research and information related to that then Plz share the URL, Video, Research Paper, and many others.
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