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Thread: Mom who glued toddler's hands to wall gets 99-year sentence

  1. #1 Mom who glued toddler's hands to wall gets 99-year sentence 
    Forum Professor arKane's Avatar
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    WOW! I am surprised at this sentence. She obviously needs help, but it's sure is hard to have much sympathy for her. Still 99 years seems to be a bit over done. I'd sure like to see some comments on how others feel about it.

    Mom who glued toddler's hands to wall gets 99-year sentence - U.S. News


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    That is crazy excessive. I assume the appeal will succeed in a reduced sentence. Obviously the woman is not fit to be a parent, but based on that sentence I expect the judge was just trying to make an example out of her. Or was a complete moron, which is also possible.


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    Er this does seem pretty bad: "Police say Escalona kicked her daughter in the stomach, beat her with a milk jug, then stuck her hands to an apartment wall with an adhesive commonly known as Super Glue."

    Yeah sure the judge went over board alright, murders over here don't get that kind of sentence, but to treat a little kid like that is not something to be taken lightly, she needs a psych evaluation and going away to such a hospital for 2 to 3 years, but not effectively a life in prison.
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    Yeah. The sentencing is completely different from state to state, too. It happens that in Texas the attitude is, "If we just scare the hell outta people, they will not do bad stuff!" Which obviously does not work at all. I find it a bit ironic, really. Texas essentially is an abusive parent to its citizens. Instead of fixing the problem (get the woman psychiatric help, send the children to a loving family) they just trash-can anything they don't like. Which happens to be quite a bit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisgorlitz View Post
    Er this does seem pretty bad: "Police say Escalona kicked her daughter in the stomach, beat her with a milk jug, then stuck her hands to an apartment wall with an adhesive commonly known as Super Glue."

    Yeah sure the judge went over board alright, murders over here don't get that kind of sentence, but to treat a little kid like that is not something to be taken lightly, she needs a psych evaluation and going away to such a hospital for 2 to 3 years, but not effectively a life in prison.
    I would say losing all her 5 kids and being required to get treatment for however long it might take would be sufficient to ensure that kind of shit does not happen again. But what do I know?
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoshuaL View Post
    Yeah. The sentencing is completely different from state to state, too. It happens that in Texas the attitude is, "If we just scare the hell outta people, they will not do bad stuff!" Which obviously does not work at all. I find it a bit ironic, really. Texas essentially is an abusive parent to its citizens. Instead of fixing the problem (get the woman psychiatric help, send the children to a loving family) they just trash-can anything they don't like. Which happens to be quite a bit.
    I spent 8 years in the Dallas/Fortworth area, and I can say, I never want to see Texas or Texans again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by arKane View Post

    I would say losing all her 5 kids and being required to get treatment for however long it might take would be sufficient to ensure that kind of shit does not happen again. But what do I know?
    Hey what do any of us know, apart from the judge is nuts.
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    Heheh. Yeah I've been to DFW a few times, but never lived there. I actually liked everyone I met, but that was not enough to convince me to move out there. I'm a west-coaster through and through. Hell, I'd be thrilled if Cascadia actually happened.
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    99 years sounds kind of expensive for the state. If she has permanently injured her child, that is a life sentence for Jocelyn. It's a full life sentence (including childhood.)


    Jocelyn suffered bleeding in her brain, a fractured rib, bruises and bite marks, and was in a coma for a couple of days. Some skin had been torn off her hands, where doctors also found paint chips from the apartment wall, witnesses testified.

    People who can't control their temper shouldn't have kids. If it happens they do have kids, then it's their duty to give them up. If they love their kids, they would do that unquestioningly, with absolute zero hesitation.

    If they want to keep them in spite of knowing they have that failing, well love for them certainly isn't the motive. The only plausible motive left is that they want a convenient victim.

    No need to fool ourselves that there's anything accidental about this. Sociopaths are very good at feigning an emotional reaction, crying, putting their head in their hands.... etc...
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    No need to fool ourselves that there's anything accidental about this. Sociopaths are very good at feigning an emotional reaction, crying, putting their head in their hands.... etc...
    That's not the issue. What other crimes by sociopaths or psychopaths attract 99 year sentences? Rape? Other forms of non-fatal assault?

    The children need to be separated from an obviously disturbed parent. The parent must serve some time for the crime. Both parent and children need therapy of some sort to deal with the problems arising from the parent's disturbed mind/evil/ignorance whatever.
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
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    Quote Originally Posted by kojax View Post
    99 years sounds kind of expensive for the state. If she has permanently injured her child, that is a life sentence for Jocelyn. It's a full life sentence (including childhood.)


    Jocelyn suffered bleeding in her brain, a fractured rib, bruises and bite marks, and was in a coma for a couple of days. Some skin had been torn off her hands, where doctors also found paint chips from the apartment wall, witnesses testified.

    People who can't control their temper shouldn't have kids. If it happens they do have kids, then it's their duty to give them up. If they love their kids, they would do that unquestioningly, with absolute zero hesitation.

    If they want to keep them in spite of knowing they have that failing, well love for them certainly isn't the motive. The only plausible motive left is that they want a convenient victim.

    No need to fool ourselves that there's anything accidental about this. Sociopaths are very good at feigning an emotional reaction, crying, putting their head in their hands.... etc...
    She had 5 kids. I don't remember the article saying if they all had similar experiences. But I think if she wants to have a shorter incarceration she should agree to be sterilized. She definitely has a serious anger management problem, but I really couldn't tell from the article if she was a sociopath, I sure wouldn't rule out some level of personality disorder, and as we know there is very little that can be done for most personality disorders.

    But then again I believe people should meet basic qualifications to have children. I would think if that was any kind of priority, finding a reversible vaccine against pregnancy wouldn't be that far off.
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    finding a reversible vaccine against pregnancy wouldn't be that far off.
    We already have long-term contraception.

    The only issue is cost in places like the USA which doesn't have suitable low or no cost provision of items like IUDs or hormone implants. Free contraception has prophylactic effect against abortions | Lousy Canuck
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    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    finding a reversible vaccine against pregnancy wouldn't be that far off.
    We already have long-term contraception.

    The only issue is cost in places like the USA which doesn't have suitable low or no cost provision of items like IUDs or hormone implants. Free contraception has prophylactic effect against abortions | Lousy Canuck
    Contraception is voluntary, I want mandatory vaccination against pregnancy until you can qualify to have a child. Nothing to difficult for anyone that really wants a child.
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    It doesn't matter if they are her child or someone else's child. She isn't a fit guardian, and only time will tell if she will ever be let near children unsupervised.
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  16. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by kojax View Post
    99 years sounds kind of expensive for the state. If she has permanently injured her child, that is a life sentence for Jocelyn.
    It's a lifetime sentence for the tax payers as well.

    --
    The sentence here is really whacked and a good example when revenge thinking trumps reason.

    There's a quip about sentences like this being a deterrent. Only someone who doesn't know much about abuse could possibly think that. By wide margins, abusers are psychologically troubled, almost always from being a victim of abuse when they were growing up. It's also often tied to drug abuse, poor support structures, social isolation and desperate poverty; often multiple closely ages kids as well. Usually it's a combination of these factors. Non of those factors are changed nor even influenced by any level of deterrence. About the only things that can help are significant and early commitment by extended family, and early intervention by child protective services and social programs to connect the family to help. My guess is Texas is probably spending a lot more on their prisons than on social programs-an upside down system.
    --
    If they love their kids, they would do that unquestioningly, with absolute zero hesitation.
    Most abusive parents deeply love their kids and ironically their kids often love them in return, even as they fear them. According to most studies, child abuse is inter-generational in about 2/3 of cases-the abuser was a victim at one point and learned to identify what most of us see as abuse as how to show love.
    Last edited by Lynx_Fox; October 13th, 2012 at 12:53 PM.
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    According to most studies, child abuse is intergenerational in about 2/3s of cases that abuser was a victim at one point and learned to identify what most of us see as abuse as how to show love.
    Yup. I remember a rather sad case in another Australian state. A bloke and his brother got done for abusing a couple of his preschoolers. If the kids did anything 'wrong', they had to stand in the corner - so far, so good - holding a house brick above their heads for an hour or more at a time - not so good. (I don't remember the other details, I just found this one action remarkable.)

    These two grown men seriously believed that this particular form of punishment was appropriate for toddlers .... because that's what their dad had done to them. I'd have found holding a house brick above my head for more than a few minutes pretty difficult even as an adult - with little tiny hands it must have been torture.
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    I found a link that shows some Stats and stories that seem appropriate for this topic. Damned if Texas doesn't get mentioned more than once.

    People often think that child abuse is something that happens in other families and other neighborhoods, but not close to them.

    Unfortunately, child abuse statistics show that:

    • just over 1,500 children die each year in the United States from child abuse and neglect
    • 905,000 children were the victims of child abuse in 2006
    • 70 percent of child abuse victims are under age three years old
    • over 80 percent of the abused children were abused by one the child's parent
    • neglect is the most common form of child abuse, followed by physical abuse, sexual abuse, psychological abuse, and lastly, medical neglect

    Most importantly, everyone should be aware that victims of child abuse come from all socioeconomic backgrounds, living situations, and races.


    Child Abuse Cases and Stories

    These child abuse cases and stories straight from the headlines of recent newspapers can help to highlight how common child abuse is so that everyone may be more likely to report suspected child abuse and neglect:

    • Neglect - Feb. 2009 - A mother in Dallas, Texas, was charged with neglect after her nine-year-old died from complications of diabetes after she failed to help her manage her disease.
    • Physical/Emotional Abuse - June 2008 - A mother in North Central Texas has her three children taken away because of a case of Munchausen syndrome by proxy.
    • Physical Abuse - Jan. 2009 - Two parents in Dallas, Texas, were charged with abusing their six-month-old infant so severely that he was in intensive care and it was thought that he was not going to be able to recover.
    • Physical Abuse - Jan. 2009 - A mother's boyfriend was charged with the death of her six-year-old son.
    • Physical Abuse - Dec. 2008 - A father was charged with the death of his three-month-old infant who was found unresponsive, with bone fractures and liver lacerations.
    • Physical Abuse - Feb. 2009 - A father in Lodi, California, was charged with physical abuse after a school employee noticed and reported burns on a six-year old student, which were thought to have been inflicted by a clothes iron. She had also been beaten with a stick and her mother was charged with child endangerment.
    • Physical Abuse - Feb. 2009 - A mother and her live-in boyfriend in Janesville, Wisconsin, were charged with abuse after repeatedly hitting her three-year-old daughter to the point that she required emergency brain surgery.
    • Physical Abuse - Feb. 2009 - The boyfriend of a child's mother in Wilmington, Delaware, hit and killed a 16-month old girl because she wouldn't stop crying.
    • Physical Abuse - Feb. 2009 - A nine-year-old was beaten by his mother's boyfriend in Lawrence, Massachusetts.
    • Physical Abuse - Jan. 2009 - In Fall River, Massachusetts, a mother was charged with burning her four-year-old foster son with a curling iron, causing third-degree burns that required skin graft surgery.

    Unfortunately, many more cases of child abuse go unreported.

    Child Abuse - Child Abuse Cases and Stories


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  19. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    finding a reversible vaccine against pregnancy wouldn't be that far off.
    We already have long-term contraception.

    The only issue is cost in places like the USA which doesn't have suitable low or no cost provision of items like IUDs or hormone implants. Free contraception has prophylactic effect against abortions | Lousy Canuck
    Kind of ironic when you consider how much the agency would save down the line in terms of prenatal care. Any smart private health insurance company would offer it free of charge too. It's preventative care.

    Quote Originally Posted by arKane View Post

    Contraception is voluntary, I want mandatory vaccination against pregnancy until you can qualify to have a child. Nothing to difficult for anyone that really wants a child.
    I hope we go that direction some day.

    One person's right/freedoms must end where the next person's freedoms/rights begin. Children are people. You can't just say "Both their rights matter", and then only ever choose to side with the would-be parent. Sometimes the would-be parent needs to lose. Sometimes the child needs to win.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kojax View Post
    99 years sounds kind of expensive for the state. If she has permanently injured her child, that is a life sentence for Jocelyn.
    It's a lifetime sentence for the tax payers as well.

    --
    The sentence here is really whacked and a good example when revenge thinking trumps reason.

    There's a quip about sentences like this being a deterrent. Only someone who doesn't know much about abuse could possibly think that. By wide margins, abusers are psychologically troubled, almost always from being a victim of abuse when they were growing up. It's also often tied to drug abuse, poor support structures, social isolation and desperate poverty; often multiple closely ages kids as well. Usually it's a combination of these factors. Non of those factors are changed nor even influenced by any level of deterrence. About the only things that can help are significant and early commitment by extended family, and early intervention by child protective services and social programs to connect the family to help. My guess is Texas is probably spending a lot more on their prisons than on social programs-an upside down system.
    -
    Perhaps Jocelyn and the other kids should be placed on watch lists, in case they decide to turn around and have kids of their own, then?
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  20. #19  
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    Perhaps Jocelyn and the other kids should be placed on watch lists, in case they decide to turn around and have kids of their own, then?
    In many states they would be (not sure about Texas), though it wouldn't be in the form of a "watch list," as much as requirements for social service providers to maintain contact with them through early adulthood to make sure they end up in nurturing homes and maintain access to the full range of psychological, educational, drug abuse counseling and parenting services once they start their own families. Kids are pretty resilient and can usually break the inter-generational cycle with the right support.
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    This may be too out-there, but I feel like these are the kinds of things that make immortality a worthwhile pursuit. If we had a stable population of people, and assuming we didn't go batshit crazy with age, we could avoid all this nonsense violence. If after a couple hundred years you decide you're done, then someone has the option of making a baby to replace you. Sci-fi, but seems like a realistic goal.
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  22. #21  
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    If it were possible to do, it would get rid of the old/young ratio requirement, because all the elderly would be able bodied and able to keep on working. Might have to put a limit on pensions, or something, though, if a person now isn't going to ultimately die and stop collecting. (Or give them the option to trade it in for free treatment with the drug.)

    The main problem is how would you convince the young people of the world to accept that they are uniquely, in all of human history, forbidden to reproduce? (Or only at replacement level, which would be not very much.) I bet some of them would agree to forgo the anti-aging drug in order to get the privilege. I also bet many of them would try to renege on the agreement once they started losing their youthful vigor.
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  23. #22  
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    Good questions. I always forget that breeding is such a strong urge in people. I've never felt it myself, so I don't always remember that most people do.
    "The only appropriate attitude for man to have about the big questions is... doubt. Doubt is humble, and that's what man needs to be, considering that human history is just a litany of getting sh*t dead wrong."

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