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August 26th, 2012, 06:24 AM
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Last edited by Stanley514; September 6th, 2017 at 11:01 PM.
Watching the second one now. I love prison documentaries. And luckily I speak Russian.
I found this one interesting, too:
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Last edited by Stanley514; September 6th, 2017 at 11:01 PM.
I don't understand why you're focusing on prisons, though. Most people in the USA feel little or no sympathy for criminals. I look at what happened to that "poor prisoner" and just laugh to myself about how that guy's probably really sorry right now that he decided to break the law.
If you can show that law abiding citizens are being mistreated, you'll get a lot more of a reaction.
Seriously? We gain so much from empathy, the way we treat others, study of mankind, and history. I suppose you want us to study cute kittens and "leave the garbage" out of it?Originally Posted by kojax
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Last edited by Stanley514; September 6th, 2017 at 11:02 PM.
Not too many innocent people go to jail in the USA. Maybe the total number would be high (because statistically any portion of 300 million population must be a high number, even if it's just 0.01%) However, it's very unlikely a normal American who isn't involved in gangs or something would ever go to prison on a false charge.
Maybe that's different in Eastern Europe? How are your courts structured? Are you presumed "innocent until proven guilty"? Or is it more like in Mexico, where the accused always has to prove the police are wrong?
In the USA a child under the age of ten cannot go to jail no matter what they do, even if they commit murder. A teenager could be tried as an adult for a sufficiently severe crime, however.A little boy in one of the movies got 4 years of prison for stealing and
eating big pack of icecream.
Now I'm interested in the hospitals orphanages and boardings. That's different from prisons.
In the same time deputies in Russia do
not receive any sentence for smashing pedestrian to death and for
megabillion corruption.Prisons indeed is a revealing face of entire
society.The similar conditions exist in many post USSR hospiatals,
orphanages,boardings,enforced army service,and even educational
institutions
Maybe the fact you believe this is the problem..The idea is not to punish evil criminals who deserve it,
but get rotten alive any person who gets in arms of the state.
I believe in punishing evil criminals who deserve it. Why do you think we give criminals such long sentences in the USA? We want them to be afraid to commit crimes.
I told you how to solve that problem already. Give people the right to sue the government for large sums of money whenever government agents do anything wrong.
Maybe Ukraine needs another "Orange Revolution", and that should be the first most important topic on their agenda. It's the only cure for corruption that has ever worked.
There was a mistaken police shooting in Portland, Oregon (in the USA near where I live) a couple of years ago, where a young man got killed in his car. I read about what the police department did. Even though it was likely the officers had had good reason to believe the young man was armed and intended to shoot at them (which would mean they were not wrong), the police department still put them on leave from their jobs, and held a lengthy investigation. I asked the reason why? The answer is because they wanted to be sure the family would not sue the police department (not the officers, the whole department) for "wrongful death". If you want the police to be afraid to be corrupt, you need to make them be afraid of losing money for it.
Yeah, I used to believe that fairy tale bullshit crap too, until a friend of mine (Gary Gauger) was falsly accused and convicted of killing his parents and sentenced to death in Illinois.
When they set him free, they also set another 12 men free---all falsely accused and convicted and sentenced to death.
Justice? Forget it. It is a fairy tale. a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and furry and signifying nothing.
rule number one
you have the right to remain silent
after you forget that, all your other rights fade away real damned fast
Well, yeah if you confess you'll probably be convicted.
However, I am interested to know how it is that you know your friend was innocent. Did they later figure out who really did it?
I just read the wikipedia article on that guy. I can't see how he was convicted in the first place since there was zero physical evidence. Just his confession after a whole day of interrogation.Yeah, I used to believe that fairy tale bullshit crap too, until a friend of mine (Gary Gauger) was falsly accused and convicted of killing his parents and sentenced to death in Illinois.
When they set him free, they also set another 12 men free---all falsely accused and convicted and sentenced to death.
Justice? Forget it. It is a fairy tale. a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and furry and signifying nothing.
rule number one
you have the right to remain silent
after you forget that, all your other rights fade away real damned fast
Gary said that he never confessed-----------after 18 hours of grilling, the police were phrasing questions like, if you were to do this, how would you do it, after telling him countless times what evidence about the murders they had found.
Then the police claimed to have lost 18 hours of interview notes and swore(lied) under oath that gary had confessed.
poor guy was on a bad path of dementing his brain with too much alchohol after his wife had left him---------and so he was an easy target for corrupt cops who really were too damned lazy(or incompetent) to do their jobs and were just looking for an easy conviction.
They all got promotions, were never tried for perjury.
And even after the feds had found the real killers(who had bragged about it to their biker buddies---one of whom was an undercover fed), and Gary was freed the involved police claimed that Gary had been let loose on a technicality---the technicality being---He was innocent---------then the governor stepped in and gave Gary a pardon.
I had never believed that gary had it in hin to harm any other living creature yet alone commit a murder.
And I had had faith in our judicial system.
And if Gary's wrongful conviction weren't enough, the investigations led to several other wrongfully convicted men being released.
The Judge was a biased joke.
When Gary tried to tell his side of the story, the judge folded his arms, and rolled his eyes as the leaned back in his chair and turned away from Gary---in full sight of the jury. His posture as much as said "Do not believe this murderer".
If those charged with upholding the law and administering justice are corrupt.
There is no law. Just words to be used by knaves to make trap for fools.
No justice.
.................
ancillary
the average IQ of people in prison is more than 8 points (some claim 13) below the population as a whole.
The above makes me wonder just how many of those were railroaded by corrupt cops and judges because they were just too damned dumb to defend themselves from that kind of corruption.
......................
never give one goddamned inch when it comes to your rights. If innocent, say nothing.
Last edited by sculptor; September 1st, 2012 at 08:20 PM.
An example of suing the police force - from this week in the Oregonian:
Lukus Glenn verdict of $2.5 million 'moment of accountability' for Washington County | OregonLive.com
Sculptor : Your friend should have sued. He'd have gotten a lot of money.
That's the balance. You should never feel afraid/ashamed to use it. It's there to curb corruption. If each victim sues, the bad police get fired real quick, and bad judges too if their actions come up and get mentioned in the trial. If you don't want to keep the money, you can always give it away or start a foundation to help other victims.
Last edited by kojax; September 2nd, 2012 at 12:56 AM.
He did sue. He didn't get any money................However, the governor proposed that each freed death row inmate be granted $100,000 if they agreed to cease any further lawsuits--of which, Gary got 61-----(I think that that is how it was settled)--------some subjects, you just dont dwell on...
For years afterward, Gary was on edge thinking the cops were going to fabricate something else and come for him.
And he had to keep reliving the nightmare for the curious and when he spoke out against the death penalty.
So, once I realized his emotional state, I never brought up the subject.
I knew his dad for years before I met Gary(though we went to the same church as children).
His dad had a motorcycle shop, and i had a harley which I seemed really adept at crashing. So Morry taught me how to repair it, loaned me his tools, and sold me the parts.
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Last edited by Stanley514; September 6th, 2017 at 11:02 PM.
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Last edited by Stanley514; September 6th, 2017 at 11:02 PM.
In the USA's military there have been some women who were raped by superior officers. As in other matters, our system of class action lawsuits is allowing them to take action to fix the problem, even though the system of criminal laws didn't punish their attackers.
http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/pentagon-faces-class-action-suit-exposing-military-sexual-abuse-crisis/legal-issues/2011/02/15/17430
Because the women filed the class action lawsuit, the whole military leadership is having to change its way of doing things to prevent future officers from doing this thing to future women who serve in the military.
My browser will translate into Russian (though it's probably not a fully correct translation), so here's the main part of the article:
организации играя в поддержку коллективный иск против Пентагона лидеры Гейтс, Рамсфелд Для борьбы Военно изнасилование, сексуальное нападение
Действие Network Service женские (SWAN), национальная правозащитная организация, посвященной ликвидации сексуального насилия в вооруженных силах США во главе с исполнительным директором и бывший морской пехоты капитан Ану Бхагвати, вступают в поддержку иска против министра обороны США Робертом Гейтсом и бывшим Министр обороны Дональд Рамсфелд, за невыполнение достижения ощутимого прогресса и заметное улучшение в ужасной записи Пентагона, который появляется терпеть сексуальное насилие и изнасилования.
В иске, принес от имени семнадцати истцов, в том числе двух человек, был подан в федеральный окружной суд в Восточном округе в Вирджинии Susan L. Burke , и объявил в Национальном пресс-клубе в Вашингтоне, округ Колумбия, не чужд противоречий, Берк Также судебному еще один крупный иск против Blackwater, LLC, в случае осведомителей от имени правительства США. Берк присоединился сегодня Бхагвати, Элли Смил, президент Фонда Феминистская большинства, и некоторые из истцов, участвующих в судебном процессе, в том числе двадцать пять лет Кори Cioca (видео), который сказал, что она попала ей в лицо вышестоящего в 2005 году и позже изнасиловал и тот же человек во время службы в береговой охране.
Кроме того, истец в иске, Panayiota Bertzikis, двадцать девять лет, бывший член береговой охраны, которая была изнасилована в то время как товарищ по социальной поход от службы в 2006 году. Bertzikis, в настоящее время исполнительный директор Центра военного кризиса Изнасилование в Somerville, штат Массачусетс, говорит о более широкой проблемы не только возникновение изнасилование, которое значительно занижены - даже по данным министерства обороны, - но о больших вопроса , которая является способом, в котором военные в целом сделок с изнасилованием, после того, как он сообщил.
"Проблема изнасилования в военное является не только военнослужащие получают изнасиловали, но это все так, что военные в целом справиться с ним", сказал Bertzikis, который добавил: Из выживших того, чтобы быть невольно уволенных с военной службы, постоянные словесные оскорбления, когда оставшийся в живых придет вперед весь блок, как известно, отвернутся от вас.Вся культура должна быть изменена ".
I am referring to this:
Orange Revolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It wasn't a war. It occurred in 2004, and supposedly it was just a series of very large protests. Of course, I don't actually live in Ukraine, so I only know about it because I read about it. Maybe it wasn't such a big deal from the perspective of people who lived there at the time?
Here is the wiki article in the Russian wiki.
Оранжевая революция — Википедия
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Last edited by Stanley514; September 6th, 2017 at 11:03 PM.
That's the advantage of allowing class action law suits, then. It doesn't matter who is in power. The fact money is changing hands means the same corrupt system that supported the previous group of leaders will now support the people who sue. It's using greed against greed.
Most corrupt officials would reject the modification to their system because they know what will happen afterward. But the people can force them if they focus all of their efforts on just one particular aim.
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