1. This is just a hypothetical inquiry.

Assuming that one has a hard disk of X mass, on which there is zero information written, if 100G of information is then downloaded to said hard disk, is there ANY net gain in the overall mass of the drive?

In other words, does the 100G of informaion occupy any substantial volume in space; is the bit in fact an object subject to the Dynamical Laws of physics?

If so, what are the physical properties.

If not, hmmm... the Zeroth Law then?

Thanks in advanace for any input.

Cheers,

Rye Rye

2.

3. I wouldn't think so.

4. Since 1's and 0's are electrons, rather sorry 1's are (an electron is here, yes=1). If a hard drive has 100GB then it has a lot of 1'a. Add all those ones and multiply by the mass of an electron and hey presto, a full hard drive vs empty hard drive, the full hard drive will have more weight.

5. Originally Posted by svwillmer
Since 1's and 0's are electrons, rather sorry 1's are (an electron is here, yes=1). If a hard drive has 100GB then it has a lot of 1'a. Add all those ones and multiply by the mass of an electron and hey presto, a full hard drive vs empty hard drive, the full hard drive will have more weight.
If that were the way hard drives worked, you could put hundreds of Yottabytes on one Hard Disk!!!

The thing is, a hard drive does not read whether or not individual electrons are in the drive, parts of it are simply magnetized and demagnetized. The read/write head magnetizes and demagnetizes tiny portions of the metal disk to store the "1"s and "0"s. The closer together on the metallic disk you can place these "1"s and "0"s the more "space" you can use. This is why magnets kill Hard Drives.

Also, a processor does not "Hold" the ones or zeroes, rather it uses triodes aka transistors that act as switches. When current is flowing through the switch it completes a circuit, that is a "1", when current is being blocked by the switch the circuit is open and that is "0"

At NO time is a single electron registering as a "1" when it comes to the computers in use today. If we discover a way to do just that then computers would be amazingly fast and could hold pretty much limitless amounts of data.

6. Technically speaking, they still gain weight. Just a VERY small amount.

7. Originally Posted by Jeremyhfht
Technically speaking, they still gain weight. Just a VERY small amount.
in the end, even if hard drives worked by holding actual electrons in place, you are going to gain more weight from dust particles resting on top of the hard drive than you are from electrons!

the 1's and 0's are not a representation of an actual "particle". I think I saw someone in the physics thread reply in the way that if ones were heads and zeros were tails on a bunch of quarters, when you change a zero to a one you are not adding a quarter you are just changing its sides.

8. Remember the old IBM punch cards? You added data by subtracting weight.

9. i don't think there's any weight gain : the binary 1s and 0s are just different states of the same object, not the presence/absence of a particle

so this means that the particle and its mass is always there, it's just our interpretation (e.g. comparison with a reference state) that makes its state into a 0 or a 1

10. im not so much concerned about there being any weight gain. Im wondering about any mass.

From what i have read, i gather that the information encoded onto a magnetic surface, can result in either a net gain or even a net loss of mass, regardless of the amount of information stored.

am i correct in assuming, thus, that the 'bit' is simply the charge (spin) of already given electrons? Or is it simply repositioning electrons throught sectors of the disk?

thanks

11. How do you imagine you would add mass without weight? Where are you reading this? You are not correct in your assumption, charge is not spin, and it doesn't reposition electrons. Read the Wikipedia article on "hard disk drive" to see how it works.

12. Originally Posted by Rye Rye
This is just a hypothetical inquiry.

Assuming that one has a hard disk of X mass, on which there is zero information written, if 100G of information is then downloaded to said hard disk, is there ANY net gain in the overall mass of the drive?
no.
bits are stored as magnetic fields.
a field in one direction is a 1, in the opposite direction a 0.

13. Originally Posted by Pikkhaud
I wouldn't think so.
WHAT !?!?!?

NO DUDE NO !!!!!!

The disc weighs the same, its just that the magnetic particles on it (which were there before) are aligned in a different way. Thats all !

14. Now here is the authorative reply - NO - no gain in weight since it is down to the alighnment of the magnetic domains which are already part of the drive's mass. electrons are shoved around but return to a net charge of zero at switch off.

15. In quantum mechanics terms, does the addition of information to the HD and the resultant decrease in entropy not actually increase the mass of the HD?

16. Originally Posted by KALSTER
In quantum mechanics terms, does the addition of information to the HD and the resultant decrease in entropy not actually increase the mass of the HD?
Like I burden you with something and that's a weight off my mind?

17. Rearrangeing magnetic fields does nothing to slow entropy, the metallic disk is still decaying slowly.

18. as we all are :?

19. You decrepit old git speak for yourself!

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