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Thread: My "High-speed" Connection

  1. #1 My "High-speed" Connection 
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    First PC in MO, about 2003, only "dial-up" service available (prior, NO SERVICE available, but public outcry finally convinced local 'phone co. to provide dial-up. Damnably slow, any incoming email message containing a large data amount (picture), caused a "lock-up" of download, the pic often never materializing. To do necessary internet "chores", we drove the 23 miles to town where public usage was available.

    But now, to the current "imponderable": I have a two-gang wall plate with typical telephone jacks, two of them, one being used for our fax machine (which has a telephone handset on it, the other jack being connected to a modem which displays colored lights indicating "power, wireless, dsl, and internet". My question specifically is, are both these jacks connected in common to a single "land-line", over which the telephone service as well as PC service are carried simultaneously?

    Other than "need to know", my wife's sister in Indiana has cable internet service. They experience outages of service fairly often. After 18 months here in AZ, on "DSL", the origin of which I am clueless, we have experienced NO outages of service, though the "Dish-TV" is out often enough to make up for it! jocular


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    My nephew, who retired from Southwestern Bell Telephone Co., now SBC, explained DSL service to me about 15 years ago. He explained that DSL utilized the same pair of wires as the telephone land-line, operated at substantially higher frequencies than telephone, and was carried simultaneously with the voice signal. DSL was "Digital Synchronous Logic". DSL service required termination at a company "switch" no farther from the user than 15,000 feet, and also required "wire" for transmission, as opposed to fiber-optics.

    Toward the end of our stay there, in MO, HughesNet was promoting "high-speed" internet service via satellite. They guaranteed minimum speed of 100,000 bytes per second, but claimed average of over 1 million, for a hundred bucks a month. We were paying $20/mo., and averaged 2000 to 10,000 bytes/sec, even though our modem was a 52K, or 52,000. Typical usual transmission never exceeded 25,000, which was 1/2 of the modem's capacity, and no one has since explained these discrepancies to me.

    Can you? jocular


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    Most likely, the two connections do hook to the same line. Though it's likely they've put a DSL filter on one of the two as that's needed to keep the phone calls from interfering with the internet connection (or you may have the filter hooked up after the wall connection). As you said, they do share the same line and while you can't hear the difference over the phone, the computer would get confused without the filter.

    It's been a long time since I looked it up, but I think the 56k refers to the sum of the upload and download speeds, so 28k is about the best you could hope for and 25k is pretty decent. Some of that bandwidth would be taken up by packet headers, error correction codes and lost packets, so you'll pretty much never get the theoretical maximum.

    Satellite internet is pretty good if you only browse the web and download files. Last I heard, the upload speed wasn't as good as the download speed (but it often doesn't need to be for most people), the latency is pretty bad compared to a wired connection (a real pain for gamers) and it's much more likely to be cut off during bad weather (just like satellite TV).
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagiMaster View Post
    Most likely, the two connections do hook to the same line. Though it's likely they've put a DSL filter on one of the two as that's needed to keep the phone calls from interfering with the internet connection (or you may have the filter hooked up after the wall connection). As you said, they do share the same line and while you can't hear the difference over the phone, the computer would get confused without the filter.

    It's been a long time since I looked it up, but I think the 56k refers to the sum of the upload and download speeds, so 28k is about the best you could hope for and 25k is pretty decent. Some of that bandwidth would be taken up by packet headers, error correction codes and lost packets, so you'll pretty much never get the theoretical maximum.

    Satellite internet is pretty good if you only browse the web and download files. Last I heard, the upload speed wasn't as good as the download speed (but it often doesn't need to be for most people), the latency is pretty bad compared to a wired connection (a real pain for gamers) and it's much more likely to be cut off during bad weather (just like satellite TV).
    Thanks for this! When I studied electronics (DeVry Tech. 1963) our curriculum included a course entitled "Digital Computers", that then was the extent of computer background for me via schooling. Infancy would be a good description of it then. However, the nuts and bolts electronics, as well as milestones in solid-state, I kept up with fairly well. Some of today's everyday encounters, such as solid-state flat screen T-V, I have not "pried" the underlying differences out of yet, though my "have to know" mentality irks me occasionally. After studying television principles back then, I swore it couldn't work, even as I was watching it! Interlaced scanning, huge CRTs, horizontal deflection vacuum tubes nearly glowing red-hot (we heated our living room in winter with the T-V!). I've considered with wonderment, that the B-29s in 1945 could utilize RADAR at 30,000 feet, considering the electrical needs.

    Anyhow.....DSL being new to us, we marvel at the ability to send and receive multi-mega-byte photos and videos with scarcely a second, or two at most, time required. jocular
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  6. #5  
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    Most ISPs in advanced economies have laid down their own fibre networks. It's possible given the size of the USA, some areas are simply not as economical to service as others.

    Though to get good bandwidth, you may need a 4G dongle, or if possible invest in a good long-distance wifi access point and/or router. Satellite Internet is another option.

    Though I'd say good bandwidth is relative. I only have a 5 megabit connection, and it suits me fine as I don't download and don't play games online. I would stream, but usually sport, and a football match over 90 minutes doesn't get cut up at all unless there is network failure on my end or the ISP's end.
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  7. #6  
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    If you can get fiber, it's pretty good, but at least where I've lived, it almost always stops just short of me. You're much more likely to find it in major cities and large suburbs. (What annoys me though is when you live just outside of their area, they still send you ads, but when they find out exactly where you live, they can't actually offer you anything. :P)

    Not sure what 4G has to do with fiber, but in any case you'd probably want to weigh what you need against the prices. If, like sarnamluvu, you don't use much bandwidth fiber may not be worth the extra.
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  8. #7  
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    Quote Originally Posted by jocular View Post
    First PC in MO, about 2003, only "dial-up" service available (prior, NO SERVICE available, but public outcry finally convinced local 'phone co. to provide dial-up. Damnably slow, any incoming email message containing a large data amount (picture), caused a "lock-up" of download, the pic often never materializing. To do necessary internet "chores", we drove the 23 miles to town where public usage was available.

    But now, to the current "imponderable": I have a two-gang wall plate with typical telephone jacks, two of them, one being used for our fax machine (which has a telephone handset on it, the other jack being connected to a modem which displays colored lights indicating "power, wireless, dsl, and internet". My question specifically is, are both these jacks connected in common to a single "land-line", over which the telephone service as well as PC service are carried simultaneously?

    Other than "need to know", my wife's sister in Indiana has cable internet service. They experience outages of service fairly often. After 18 months here in AZ, on "DSL", the origin of which I am clueless, we have experienced NO outages of service, though the "Dish-TV" is out often enough to make up for it! jocular
    The two jacks probably connect to two different wire pairs within your house. However, if you don't see a second line listed on your phone bill, both pairs are probably both connected to the same external line.

    You describe a device with indicator lights for "wireless" and "DSL". This sounds like a wireless router to me, not a modem. The wireless light indicates it provides a wireless signal for portable computer access and the DSL indicator would be to show whether it has a good connection to a DSL modem. There may be a separate DSL modem somewhere in your house or in the interface box between your house and the external line.
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  9. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by danhanegan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jocular View Post
    First PC in MO, about 2003, only "dial-up" service available (prior, NO SERVICE available, but public outcry finally convinced local 'phone co. to provide dial-up. Damnably slow, any incoming email message containing a large data amount (picture), caused a "lock-up" of download, the pic often never materializing. To do necessary internet "chores", we drove the 23 miles to town where public usage was available.

    But now, to the current "imponderable": I have a two-gang wall plate with typical telephone jacks, two of them, one being used for our fax machine (which has a telephone handset on it, the other jack being connected to a modem which displays colored lights indicating "power, wireless, dsl, and internet". My question specifically is, are both these jacks connected in common to a single "land-line", over which the telephone service as well as PC service are carried simultaneously?

    Other than "need to know", my wife's sister in Indiana has cable internet service. They experience outages of service fairly often. After 18 months here in AZ, on "DSL", the origin of which I am clueless, we have experienced NO outages of service, though the "Dish-TV" is out often enough to make up for it! jocular
    The two jacks probably connect to two different wire pairs within your house. However, if you don't see a second line listed on your phone bill, both pairs are probably both connected to the same external line.

    You describe a device with indicator lights for "wireless" and "DSL". This sounds like a wireless router to me, not a modem. The wireless light indicates it provides a wireless signal for portable computer access and the DSL indicator would be to show whether it has a good connection to a DSL modem. There may be a separate DSL modem somewhere in your house or in the interface box between your house and the external line.
    Of course, being a Degreed Engineer doesn't help me much! So, I just turned the damned box over, and it has a label on it's bottom which states "Made in China, ADSL2+ MODEM ROUTER! Semantics? joc
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  10. #9  
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    Oh yeah, forgot you'd mentioned that. I see what sarnamluvu meant. If you have a great wired connection but a crappy wireless setup (assuming you're actually using wireless) that could be slowing things down.
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    Most ISPs in advanced economies have laid down their own fibre networks.
    there is a big brouhaha about what is the best type of tech to supply modern internet services in australia atm. the previous government, we've just had a federal election, was going for fibre-to-the-home and basically doing away with the old copper network. the new government prefers fibre-to-the-node and then from those use the existing copper to connect homes. FTTN would mean a cabinet to connect fibre to copper every few hundred metres in the suburbs and these would need to be powered. FTTH wouldn't need this. plus you would get much better speeds, much better reliability and future proof the system. downside is it would be more expensive and take longer to roll-out. most pundits or both political persausions back the FTTH system as being better by a long way. the present government isn't listening as they think their system is better. people are getting really p***ed off about it.

    i'm on wireless, live in a rural area and the exchange is more than 5km away so no adsl, and am lucky to get 4megs a second download speed.
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  12. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by jocular View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by danhanegan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jocular View Post
    First PC in MO, about 2003, only "dial-up" service available (prior, NO SERVICE available, but public outcry finally convinced local 'phone co. to provide dial-up. Damnably slow, any incoming email message containing a large data amount (picture), caused a "lock-up" of download, the pic often never materializing. To do necessary internet "chores", we drove the 23 miles to town where public usage was available.

    But now, to the current "imponderable": I have a two-gang wall plate with typical telephone jacks, two of them, one being used for our fax machine (which has a telephone handset on it, the other jack being connected to a modem which displays colored lights indicating "power, wireless, dsl, and internet". My question specifically is, are both these jacks connected in common to a single "land-line", over which the telephone service as well as PC service are carried simultaneously?

    Other than "need to know", my wife's sister in Indiana has cable internet service. They experience outages of service fairly often. After 18 months here in AZ, on "DSL", the origin of which I am clueless, we have experienced NO outages of service, though the "Dish-TV" is out often enough to make up for it! jocular
    The two jacks probably connect to two different wire pairs within your house. However, if you don't see a second line listed on your phone bill, both pairs are probably both connected to the same external line.

    You describe a device with indicator lights for "wireless" and "DSL". This sounds like a wireless router to me, not a modem. The wireless light indicates it provides a wireless signal for portable computer access and the DSL indicator would be to show whether it has a good connection to a DSL modem. There may be a separate DSL modem somewhere in your house or in the interface box between your house and the external line.
    Of course, being a Degreed Engineer doesn't help me much! So, I just turned the damned box over, and it has a label on it's bottom which states "Made in China, ADSL2+ MODEM ROUTER! Semantics? joc
    If it has a phone jack, it's a modem.

    We run ADSL in South Africa. I am less than 2KM from the exchange and my line can technically support 20Mbps, but is only upgraded to 10Mbps. My line connects to that speed, but I only pay for 4Mbps atm. (max possible upload speed is 1024kbps), which is not bad, for down here.

    I have an uncapped, shaped package that prioritises gaming 24/7 and downloading after hours. Normal protocols like browsing and email is unshaped 24/7, while P2P and HTTP downloads are shaped during peak times. I have no soft caps, throttling or threshold policies. We are forced to pay for a phone line as well. At the moment for this I pay around R880 pm, which is roughly US $88.

    How does that compare with you first world people?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrispen Evan View Post
    i'm on wireless, live in a rural area and the exchange is more than 5km away so no adsl, and am lucky to get 4megs a second download speed.
    If you will be good enough to excuse my stupidity, or maybe just ignorance, your wireless must be conducted via a cellphone-type system? Or via satellite dish? 4 megs would have been a Godsend on our dial-up situation.

    I should like to check our current speed, but do not seem to be able to decipher the means, as I was with Windows XP, now on Win. 7. I'm guessing it is more than 4 megs, and less than 10. jocular
    Last edited by KALSTER; November 6th, 2013 at 07:32 PM. Reason: fixed tags
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  14. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by jocular View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrispen Evan View Post
    i'm on wireless, live in a rural area and the exchange is more than 5km away so no adsl, and am lucky to get 4megs a second download speed.
    If you will be good enough to excuse my stupidity, or maybe just ignorance, your wireless must be conducted via a cellphone-type system? Or via satellite dish? 4 megs would have been a Godsend on our dial-up situation.

    I should like to check our current speed, but do not seem to be able to decipher the means, as I was with Windows XP, now on Win. 7. I'm guessing it is more than 4 megs, and less than 10. jocular
    Go to Speedtest.net and test your speeds and pings to servers all over the world.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
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  15. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jocular View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by danhanegan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jocular View Post
    First PC in MO, about 2003, only "dial-up" service available (prior, NO SERVICE available, but public outcry finally convinced local 'phone co. to provide dial-up. Damnably slow, any incoming email message containing a large data amount (picture), caused a "lock-up" of download, the pic often never materializing. To do necessary internet "chores", we drove the 23 miles to town where public usage was available.

    But now, to the current "imponderable": I have a two-gang wall plate with typical telephone jacks, two of them, one being used for our fax machine (which has a telephone handset on it, the other jack being connected to a modem which displays colored lights indicating "power, wireless, dsl, and internet". My question specifically is, are both these jacks connected in common to a single "land-line", over which the telephone service as well as PC service are carried simultaneously?

    Other than "need to know", my wife's sister in Indiana has cable internet service. They experience outages of service fairly often. After 18 months here in AZ, on "DSL", the origin of which I am clueless, we have experienced NO outages of service, though the "Dish-TV" is out often enough to make up for it! jocular
    The two jacks probably connect to two different wire pairs within your house. However, if you don't see a second line listed on your phone bill, both pairs are probably both connected to the same external line.

    You describe a device with indicator lights for "wireless" and "DSL". This sounds like a wireless router to me, not a modem. The wireless light indicates it provides a wireless signal for portable computer access and the DSL indicator would be to show whether it has a good connection to a DSL modem. There may be a separate DSL modem somewhere in your house or in the interface box between your house and the external line.
    Of course, being a Degreed Engineer doesn't help me much! So, I just turned the damned box over, and it has a label on it's bottom which states "Made in China, ADSL2+ MODEM ROUTER! Semantics? joc
    If it has a phone jack, it's a modem.

    We run ADSL in South Africa. I am less than 2KM from the exchange and my line can technically support 20Mbps, but is only upgraded to 10Mbps. My line connects to that speed, but I only pay for 4Mbps atm. (max possible upload speed is 1024kbps), which is not bad, for down here.

    I have an uncapped, shaped package that prioritises gaming 24/7 and downloading after hours. Normal protocols like browsing and email is unshaped 24/7, while P2P and HTTP downloads are shaped during peak times. I have no soft caps, throttling or threshold policies. We are forced to pay for a phone line as well. At the moment for this I pay around R880 pm, which is roughly US $88.

    How does that compare with you first world people?
    Thanks for this info!
    1. It plugs INTO a phone jack, but uses a different type connector at the "box", FWIW.
    2. I recall hearing that the first DSL installations required "wire", and only worked to a maximum of 15,000 feet (thus, about 4km(?) from the exchange.
    3. Good info, likely for the folks more technically privy; the terms have eluded me ever since trying to get our email to function 15 years ago!
    4. "First World"? Good luck with that! We have one land-line in the house, use it for a telephone and (apparently) DSL, have a maximum of 300 minutes per month of long-distance usage at somewhere around $0.10/min., thenceforth quadruple that cost/min., and our current billing is $144/month. I feel it's a rip-off. joc
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    If you will be good enough to excuse my stupidity, or maybe just ignorance, your wireless must be conducted via a cellphone-type system? Or via satellite dish?
    it is via the 3G cell-phone, or mobile phone as we call it in Australia, network. I get 12gigs a month for AUS$40. download speed varies on time of day and congestion from less than 1meg a second to 4megs. when the NBN comes in, National Broadband Network, we are promised 12megs a second minimum. (i wont hold my breath)
    Sometimes it is better not knowing than having an answer that may be wrong.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jocular View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jocular View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by danhanegan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jocular View Post
    First PC in MO, about 2003, only "dial-up" service available (prior, NO SERVICE available, but public outcry finally convinced local 'phone co. to provide dial-up. Damnably slow, any incoming email message containing a large data amount (picture), caused a "lock-up" of download, the pic often never materializing. To do necessary internet "chores", we drove the 23 miles to town where public usage was available.

    But now, to the current "imponderable": I have a two-gang wall plate with typical telephone jacks, two of them, one being used for our fax machine (which has a telephone handset on it, the other jack being connected to a modem which displays colored lights indicating "power, wireless, dsl, and internet". My question specifically is, are both these jacks connected in common to a single "land-line", over which the telephone service as well as PC service are carried simultaneously?

    Other than "need to know", my wife's sister in Indiana has cable internet service. They experience outages of service fairly often. After 18 months here in AZ, on "DSL", the origin of which I am clueless, we have experienced NO outages of service, though the "Dish-TV" is out often enough to make up for it! jocular
    The two jacks probably connect to two different wire pairs within your house. However, if you don't see a second line listed on your phone bill, both pairs are probably both connected to the same external line.

    You describe a device with indicator lights for "wireless" and "DSL". This sounds like a wireless router to me, not a modem. The wireless light indicates it provides a wireless signal for portable computer access and the DSL indicator would be to show whether it has a good connection to a DSL modem. There may be a separate DSL modem somewhere in your house or in the interface box between your house and the external line.
    Of course, being a Degreed Engineer doesn't help me much! So, I just turned the damned box over, and it has a label on it's bottom which states "Made in China, ADSL2+ MODEM ROUTER! Semantics? joc
    If it has a phone jack, it's a modem.

    We run ADSL in South Africa. I am less than 2KM from the exchange and my line can technically support 20Mbps, but is only upgraded to 10Mbps. My line connects to that speed, but I only pay for 4Mbps atm. (max possible upload speed is 1024kbps), which is not bad, for down here.

    I have an uncapped, shaped package that prioritises gaming 24/7 and downloading after hours. Normal protocols like browsing and email is unshaped 24/7, while P2P and HTTP downloads are shaped during peak times. I have no soft caps, throttling or threshold policies. We are forced to pay for a phone line as well. At the moment for this I pay around R880 pm, which is roughly US $88.

    How does that compare with you first world people?
    Thanks for this info!
    1. It plugs INTO a phone jack, but uses a different type connector at the "box", FWIW.
    2. I recall hearing that the first DSL installations required "wire", and only worked to a maximum of 15,000 feet (thus, about 4km(?) from the exchange.
    3. Good info, likely for the folks more technically privy; the terms have eluded me ever since trying to get our email to function 15 years ago!
    4. "First World"? Good luck with that! We have one land-line in the house, use it for a telephone and (apparently) DSL, have a maximum of 300 minutes per month of long-distance usage at somewhere around $0.10/min., thenceforth quadruple that cost/min., and our current billing is $144/month. I feel it's a rip-off. joc
    DSL always works over a wire pair. The whole point of DSL is to get as much bandwidth as possible out of a wire pair. DSL is limited by length of the wire pair used, 15000 is a bit conservative, I have seen DSL running over pairs as long as 22000 feet, but the longer the pair, the more noise and eventually bandwidth suffers. The original DSL rollouts had the DSLAM (the device on the phone company's end your modem communicates with) in phone company central offices (the "exchange"), but more recent DSL networks include DSLAMs at remote pads that get them closer to end users.
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