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Thread: On dreaming and VR Theory

  1. #1 On dreaming and VR Theory 
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    Assuming for a moment that we live inside of a mostly simulation being inhabited environment. It might be reasonable to assume that it may not be possible for real humans to dream ,hallucinate, or have certain types of clear mental visions as vividly as simulated humans do. This theory could possibly lead many to believe that conditions such as "schizophrenia" are results of experiments on various human AI/AI(artificial and actual manufactured intelligence) neural networks.This is naturally not mind-blowing in any way shape or form to many VR theorist...


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    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    What?


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    Moderator Moderator Cogito Ergo Sum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedhuman View Post
    Assuming for a moment that we live inside of a mostly simulation being inhabited environment.

    Go on.

    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedhuman View Post
    It might be reasonable to assume that it may not be possible for real humans to dream ,hallucinate, or have certain types of clear mental visions as vividly as simulated humans do.

    May I ask what a simulated human is? A hologram? An extremely complex algorithm? A human behaviour and intelligence simulator? Artificial intelligence in exoskeleton?

    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedhuman View Post
    This theory could possibly lead many to believe that conditions such as "schizophrenia" are results of experiments on various human AI/AI(artificial and actual manufactured intelligence) neural networks.

    According to the NIMH:
    "Scientists believe several genes are associated with an increased risk of schizophrenia, but that no gene causes the disease by itself. In fact, recent research has found that people with schizophrenia tend to have higher rates of rare genetic mutations. These genetic differences involve hundreds of different genes and probably disrupt brain development. (...) Many environmental factors may be involved, such as exposure to viruses or malnutrition before birth, problems during birth, and other not yet known psychosocial factors."
    (cf. NIMH ∑ Schizophrenia)

    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedhuman View Post
    This is naturally not mind-blowing in any way shape or form to many VR theorist...

    I am inclined to state that the VR theory is a theory in the vernacular sense of the word.
    Yet, feel free to demonstrate that the VR theory (which is not explained in your OP) is solid science.
    "The only safe rule is to dispute only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong."

    ~ Arthur Schopenhauer, The Art of Being Right: 38 Ways to Win an Argument (1831), Stratagem XXXVIII.
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    Malignant Pimple shlunka's Avatar
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    I like to get drunk and post things on the internet sometimes too.
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    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedhuman View Post
    Assuming for a moment ....
    It might be reasonable to assume that ...
    This theory ....
    Random unsupported assumptions do not make a "theory".
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
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  7. #6  
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    There are actually a couple of real theories that postulate that dreaming evolved as a form of virtual reality to enable animals to learn how to deal with threats before they happened in real life. This thread's title had me hoping it was going to be about that, as I've written about the subject and recently published an ebook that discusses it.

    This, however just seems silly.
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    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alec Bing View Post
    There are actually a couple of real theories that postulate that dreaming evolved as a form of virtual reality to enable animals to learn how to deal with threats before they happened in real life. This thread's title had me hoping it was going to be about that, as I've written about the subject and recently published an ebook that discusses it.
    I haven't seen that explanation before. It would certainly fit with the fact that new skills improve significantly after sleeping and, presumably, dreaming about them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedhuman View Post
    Assuming for a moment that we live inside of a mostly simulation being inhabited environment. It might be reasonable to assume that it may not be possible for real humans to dream ,hallucinate, or have certain types of clear mental visions as vividly as simulated humans do. This theory could possibly lead many to believe that conditions such as "schizophrenia" are results of experiments on various human AI/AI(artificial and actual manufactured intelligence) neural networks.This is naturally not mind-blowing in any way shape or form to many VR theorist...
    Do androids dream of electric sheep?

    Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley514 View Post
    From what I know majority of scientist find it plausible that we live in simulated environment. And brain computer interface seem to be close possibility. What is concerning to schizophrenia from what I know this diagnosis is still arguable. Recently Japanese association of psychiatrists ultimately rejected diagnosing people with schizophrenia. Often symptoms for schizophrenia listed in popular sources includes such things as believe of patients that they have brain implants and/or somebody could know their thought. But it is already recognized by scientists that such things are practically possible and cannot serve as a proof of sickness.

    True, but would it not become an indicator for schizophrenia if a patient has delusions when his/her thoughts are not read by a device or when he/she does not a brain implant?
    "The only safe rule is to dispute only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley514 View Post
    Personally, I'm more interested in theoretical question: how people would be able to struggle for their rights if they would be involuntarily kept in a "Matrix" and how development of a "Matrix" civilization will proceed? Or will such type of society develop at all at least in social sense? Obviously that technical progress contradicts to freedom and democracy which is, of course, sad.

    So, basically creating a giant, virtual cage where humans simulate reality, am I correct?
    "The only safe rule is to dispute only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong."

    ~ Arthur Schopenhauer, The Art of Being Right: 38 Ways to Win an Argument (1831), Stratagem XXXVIII.
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    Last edited by Stanley514; September 7th, 2017 at 01:56 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley514 View Post
    From what I know majority of scientist find it plausible that we live in simulated environment.
    If by "plausible" you mean "Yeah, it could be true but we have nothing whatsoever to say that's the case. It's an interesting (or not) speculation" then I'll agree. Otherwise I'd like a reference for "majority of scientists" please.

    But it is already recognized by scientists that such things are practically possible and cannot serve as a proof of sickness.
    Reference that a "brain implant" can "read thoughts" is practically possible required.
    As far as I know the current "best" is not a simple implant.
    'It is conceivable that in the next ten years (mind reading) could happen. I think itís a question of when rather than if, but at the moment the technical difficulties are very large,'
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    I just don't think the simulation idea is likely, although it's very trendy.

    The problem is consciousness. When I play a video game, that's a simulated world created by computer programmers. The characters may have interesting lives and do interesting things (from my point of view). But I know that the characters in the game are not conscious. They're no more conscious than my word processor or the browser window I'm typing in right now.

    This is just a "brain in a vat" idea that can't be disproved. Sure, I might be just a program in someone else's simulation ... but it's not likely. Nobody has any idea what consciousness is or how to simulate it or program it or create it in an artificial being. I might be a simulation, I might be a brain in a vat, and I might be the ONLY conscious entity in the world and everyone and everything else is just my own illusion. That's a philosophical doctrine called solipcism. It can't be logically disproved; but it fails the test of common sense. It's false.

    And so is the idea that I'm a simulation in someone's video game.

    Gotta go kill some aliens now.
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    Last edited by Stanley514; September 7th, 2017 at 01:57 AM.
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    Moderator Moderator Cogito Ergo Sum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley514 View Post
    So, basically creating a giant, virtual cage where humans simulate reality, am I correct?
    Why should it be a cage?

    Because you stated this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley514 View Post
    Personally, I'm more interested in theoretical question: how people would be able to struggle for their rights if they would be involuntarily kept in a "Matrix" and how development of a "Matrix" civilization will proceed?

    I interpreted that as a "cage".
    "The only safe rule is to dispute only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong."

    ~ Arthur Schopenhauer, The Art of Being Right: 38 Ways to Win an Argument (1831), Stratagem XXXVIII.
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  20. #19  
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  21. #20  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley514 View Post
    Researchers from Radboud University Nijmegen are claiming that with a sufficiently-sensitive MRI and decent mathematical modelling, they can reconstruct images of the brain recognising letters seen by the test subject.Mind-reading MRI reads letters in the brain
    What is this supposed to tell us?
    I do hope it's not meant as "evidence" for your claim that a "brain implant" can "read thoughts".
    I haven't yet come across an MRI machine that will fit in the average bathroom let alone in the brain.
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