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Thread: Corrosion and acid-metal reactions.

  1. #1 Corrosion and acid-metal reactions. 
    Forum Freshman Modern_Hero's Avatar
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    Hi, I'm new to the forum. Glad to see that there are still intelligent people in the world.

    I'm a student working on a science project. My idea is to test if contaminants affect the corrosion process and wether corrosion in turn effects acid-metal reactions.

    I already have my paper written out, all thats left is to perform the experiment, but I thought it might be nice to see what other chemists predict will happen.

    In short, do you think that corrosion will have an adverse effect on acid-metal reactions and if so, what effect?


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  3. #2  
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    Good grief! I thought that everyone knows that salt water is far more corrosive to metal than tap water. What exactly are you testing? Reaction rates? Kinetics?


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  4. #3  
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    I'm sure it depends on the acid...

    How are you setting up your experiment, anyway?
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  5. #4  
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveF
    Good grief! I thought that everyone knows that salt water is far more corrosive to metal than tap water. What exactly are you testing? Reaction rates? Kinetics?
    It's just an example. Will be testing corrosion rates over varying lengths of time and with differing substances (i.e, a layer of oil over the water, fizzy pop, etc, etc...), Reaction rates for the acid-metal, effects of temperatures, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scifor Refugee
    I'm sure it depends on the acid...

    How are you setting up your experiment, anyway?
    Usual way. Butt load of test tubes, controled environment, yadda yadda. I could dig out my paper in the next couple of days and post some of it up?
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  6. #5  
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    But how exactly will you measure the amount of corrosion?
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  7. #6  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scifor Refugee
    But how exactly will you measure the amount of corrosion?
    Scraping it off delicately and weighing it. I know it sounds very high-school but you work with the equipment you've got, you know?
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  8. #7  
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    I don't want to get picky but there is a difference between corrosion and acid-metal reactions. Are you doing both? Separately or in sequence? If we knew more we could make better suggestions.
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  9. #8  
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    Doing them both in sequence.

    Okay, for instance, I will have my Iron bars, I will have my control, three in pure water, three in salt water, three in fizzy pop, three in urine, etc.

    after a week I will test one of each, for three weeks, measuring the amount of rust on each one by scraping it off and weighing it.

    I will then use this rust and any internal (not external) residue of the solution it was created in and react that with an acid.

    My question is; will the fact that it's rust rather than the pure metal effect the reaction with the acid?
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  10. #9  
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    OK, I get it. I can make some predictions on that first stage but what truly matters is your technique. Even with primitive equipment you can get valid results. Go for it!

    My only objection is that not all of your corrosion will remain on the metal surface as rust. In some cases the products would be soluble and enter the solution. Make sure you carefully weigh your samples before and after.
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  11. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveF
    OK, I get it. I can make some predictions on that first stage but what truly matters is your technique. Even with primitive equipment you can get valid results. Go for it!

    My only objection is that not all of your corrosion will remain on the metal surface as rust. In some cases the products would be soluble and enter the solution. Make sure you carefully weigh your samples before and after.
    Not to boast or anything, but I'm one of only two guys on the chemistry course who's accurate enough in every step of any experiment to get valid results, the other being my anal-retentive best friend.

    No, i know to weigh everything before any changes are made at all, even the control sample.

    What i'm looking forward to most is things like the aluminium (yeah, UK citizen here ) wherein the corrosion comes in the form of aluminium oxide which forms a thin protective layer over the surface of the metal, thereby preventing further corrosion, as opposed to the Iron (III) Oxide, which rusts all the way through because it forms a strange porus structure throughout.

    ... I'm such a geek, aren't I?
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  12. #11  
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    ... I'm such a geek, aren't I?
    Yeah, but you're OUR kind of geek.

    Aluminium and all.

    Good luck.
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  13. #12  
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    Finally, somewhere I belong. I'm so happy.

    Thank you for your encouragement.

    I've noticed an 'experiment' section in the SF. When I am actually performing my experiment, I think I will start a new thread there and keep you all updated with anything that I feel is worth boasting about.

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  14. #13  
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    Hallo!

    (Hint: For your next badge of geekdom, best to learn the definitions of 'effect' and 'affect' and when each is properly used.)
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  15. #14  
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    Lol. I know, i know. Those two and the multiple spellings of whether (phoeneticly) are my weak points in english. I'll get them down one day.
    "If you talk to God you're religious. If God talks to you, you're psychotic."

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    "Everybody lies. "
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  16. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Modern_Hero
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveF
    OK, I get it. I can make some predictions on that first stage but what truly matters is your technique. Even with primitive equipment you can get valid results. Go for it!

    My only objection is that not all of your corrosion will remain on the metal surface as rust. In some cases the products would be soluble and enter the solution. Make sure you carefully weigh your samples before and after.
    Not to boast or anything, but I'm one of only two guys on the chemistry course who's accurate enough in every step of any experiment to get valid results, the other being my anal-retentive best friend.

    No, i know to weigh everything before any changes are made at all, even the control sample.

    What i'm looking forward to most is things like the aluminium (yeah, UK citizen here ) wherein the corrosion comes in the form of aluminium oxide which forms a thin protective layer over the surface of the metal, thereby preventing further corrosion, as opposed to the Iron (III) Oxide, which rusts all the way through because it forms a strange porus structure throughout.

    ... I'm such a geek, aren't I?
    Not a geek. Just curious. And hooray for the UK anyway - we absolutely need every single student interested in science we can get. So you go for it!

    Have you considered, also, the effects on your iron bars of galvanisation - even partially, given that (trying to remember old stuff again) the zinc preferentiually reacts thereby reducing corrosion in the iron even if the zinc surface is scratched through...?
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  17. #16  
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    lol. No, not going to galvanise them. Going to have enough trouble as is. Major pain in the ass and after all the study time in this, going to have to flee to Australia after Uni, because the UK no longer has a chemistry trade. What a kick in the pants, eh?
    "If you talk to God you're religious. If God talks to you, you're psychotic."

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  18. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Modern_Hero
    lol. No, not going to galvanise them. Going to have enough trouble as is. Major pain in the ass and after all the study time in this, going to have to flee to Australia after Uni, because the UK no longer has a chemistry trade. What a kick in the pants, eh?
    I blame Maggie! (Or was it supposed to be "I blame the parents" - I can never quite remember which cliche to bring up at times like this) It's truly sad that the last chemistry student in the Uk is having to look to Australia for a job... [shaking head in sorrow more than anger emoticon]
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  19. #18  
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    going to have to flee to Australia after Uni, because the UK no longer has a chemistry trade. What a kick in the pants, eh?
    or your could just take a trip across the very small pond and check out irelands great chemical industry!
    Stumble on through life.
    Feel free to correct any false information, which unknown to me, may be included in my posts. (also - let this be a disclaimer)
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  20. #19  
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    I am from the emerald isle originally. And no, blame new labour
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    "Everybody lies. "
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  21. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Modern_Hero
    pure water, three in salt water, three in fizzy pop, three in urine, etc.

    man, you know that urine is gonna be mighty rank by three weeks... :?

    think black worm type things forming, and probably contaminating your sample.

    Maybe you could make a special case to replace the urine in the test tubes each week...(or less if you can)
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