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Thread: What happens if an element with an atomic number of 119 is discovered?

  1. #1 What happens if an element with an atomic number of 119 is discovered? 
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    Will the 119th electron go in the 8s orbital? Or will the atom have 118 electrons and a 1+ charge? Will an 8th period be created? Or will the element be separated from the body of the periodic table? Obviously, the nucleus will be unstable (unless it has an unusual amount of neutrons for whatever reason), so what type of nuclear decay with the nucleus undergo?


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    Bullshit Intolerant PhDemon's Avatar
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    It will not have 118 electrons, it will have 119. Your question is very similar to those I answered here:

    questions

    As for the nuclear decay, nuclear physics isn't my strong suit so I'd be guessing, I'll leave that for someone else.


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  4. #3  
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabodriver17 View Post
    Will the 119th electron go in the 8s orbital? Or will the atom have 118 electrons and a 1+ charge? Will an 8th period be created? Or will the element be separated from the body of the periodic table? Obviously, the nucleus will be unstable (unless it has an unusual amount of neutrons for whatever reason), so what type of nuclear decay with the nucleus undergo?
    Well, surely it will have an electronic configuration of [Uuo]8s1, will it not? And it will be classed in the s block below Francium, surely, i.e. So yes it would be the start of an 8th period. At least I can't see why not. Do you have some reason for thinking it might not be?
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    I was wondering about the 8th period because I didn't know how many orbital sublevels the 8th principal energy level would have.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabodriver17 View Post
    I was wondering about the 8th period because I didn't know how many orbital sublevels the 8th principal energy level would have.
    Well it doesn't matter, as it happens, because the first of the sub-levels in the 8th shell to be filled would be the good old s orbital, just as it is in all the other periods. But the orbitals in the 8th shell will be s, p, d, f, g, h, i, j (if I've got the names for the l>5 ones right, that is - I'm going on what PhDemon said in his reply).
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    The number of sub-levels is dictated by the allowed values of the angular momentum quantum number, l, these allowed values are integers between zero and n-1, so for the 8th period there are 8 allowed values so 8 sub shells,

    l=0 s
    l=1 p
    l=2 d
    l=3 f
    l=4 g
    l=5 h
    l=6 i
    l=7 k (j is skipped for some reason, possibly to avoid confusion with i as the two can look similar in some type faces)

    EDIT: ninja'd again!
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  8. #7  
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhDemon View Post
    The number of sub-levels is dictated by the allowed values of the angular momentum quantum number, l, these allowed values are integers between zero and n-1, so for the 8th period there are 8 allowed values so 8 sub shells,

    l=0 s
    l=1 p
    l=2 d
    l=3 f
    l=4 g
    l=5 h
    l=6 i
    l=7 k (j is skipped for some reason, possibly to avoid confusion with i as the two can look similar in some type faces)

    EDIT: ninja'd again!
    Sorry…..

    ….but this has got me thinking….. somewhere, out there, are the unfilled 5g and 6f orbitals. Could it be possible that either of these might be coming down in energy to the point where they might be filled in preference to 8s, at element 119? Somebody, somewhere must have attempted a calculation of at what atomic number these get pulled in enough, I'd have thought. Though it's all very esoteric.
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    From: Extended periodic table - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Quote Originally Posted by wiki
    At element 118, the orbitals 1s, 2s, 2p, 3s, 3p, 3d, 4s, 4p, 4d, 4f, 5s, 5p, 5d, 5f, 6s, 6p, 6d, 7s and 7p are assumed to be filled, with the remaining orbitals unfilled. The orbitals of the eighth period are predicted to be filled in the order 8s, 5g, 6f, 7d, 8p.
    This is the order you would expect from the Madelung rule. However (from the same page):

    Not all models show the higher elements following the pattern established by lighter elements. Pekka Pyykkö, for example, used computer modeling to calculate the positions of elements up to Z=172, and found that several were displaced from the Madelung energy-ordering rule. He predicts that the orbital shells will fill up in this order:


    • 8s,
    • 5g,
    • the first two spaces of 8p,
    • 6f,
    • 7d,
    • 9s,
    • the first two spaces of 9p,
    • the rest of 8p.

    But either way the 8s is filled first.
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  10. #9  
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhDemon View Post
    From: Extended periodic table - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Quote Originally Posted by wiki
    At element 118, the orbitals 1s, 2s, 2p, 3s, 3p, 3d, 4s, 4p, 4d, 4f, 5s, 5p, 5d, 5f, 6s, 6p, 6d, 7s and 7p are assumed to be filled, with the remaining orbitals unfilled. The orbitals of the eighth period are predicted to be filled in the order 8s, 5g, 6f, 7d, 8p.
    This is the order you would expect from the Madelung rule. However (from the same page):

    Not all models show the higher elements following the pattern established by lighter elements. Pekka Pyykkö, for example, used computer modeling to calculate the positions of elements up to Z=172, and found that several were displaced from the Madelung energy-ordering rule. He predicts that the orbital shells will fill up in this order:


    • 8s,
    • 5g,
    • the first two spaces of 8p,
    • 6f,
    • 7d,
    • 9s,
    • the first two spaces of 9p,
    • the rest of 8p.
    But either way the 8s is filled first.
    Thank you very much for this and the for references.
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  11. #10  
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    why 119, it could be 236 or 472?
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  12. #11  
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    Hi guys, how do you bond an oxygen atom to a carbon monoxide atom already consisting of a carbon and oxygen atom if it is at all possible, an urgent response will be appreciated!
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    Quote Originally Posted by simon-atom View Post
    if it is at all possible
    co2?
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
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    hi, sorry im abit slow today, so are you saying it is impossible by repeating what i said from my previous comment?
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  15. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by simon-atom View Post
    hi, sorry im abit slow today, so are you saying it is impossible by repeating what i said from my previous comment?
    I was sort of pointing out that it IS possible, since CO2 is what we breathe out - carbon dioxide.

    PS that link also has a section on how it's produced "artificially".
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  16. #15  
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    great, would you have any idea on how to bond an oxygen atom to a carbon atom?
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  17. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by simon-atom View Post
    great, would you have any idea on how to bond an oxygen atom to a carbon atom?
    Carbon monoxide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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