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Thread: types of bonds in P4O10

  1. #1 types of bonds in P4O10 
    Forum Freshman Darling's Avatar
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    Hi, could some one please explain me about the types of bonds present in P4O10. I'm not clear about the dative bonding in P4O10,how many dative bonds are there in this molecule and how they form?


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    Moderator Moderator Cogito Ergo Sum's Avatar
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    Are you referring to phosphorus pentoxide?


    phosphorus pentoxide - PubChem


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    Forum Freshman Darling's Avatar
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    thanks but if there are double bonds,then how come dative bonds are involved in this molecule?
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    Moderator Moderator Cogito Ergo Sum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darling View Post
    thanks but if there are double bonds,then how come dative bonds are involved in this molecule?

    The double bonds are the dative bonds.
    The image was to confirm that we were talking about the same molecule.
    "The only safe rule is to dispute only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong."

    ~ Arthur Schopenhauer, The Art of Being Right: 38 Ways to Win an Argument (1831), Stratagem XXXVIII.
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    Forum Freshman Darling's Avatar
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    how come oxygen donate electrons to Phosphorous? i mean why should Phosphorous donate electron-pair and again accept from oxygen to form another dative bond? If that's the case what about the double bonds in all oxyacids of phosphorous like H3PO4?? please don't mind my way of questioning..
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  7. #6  
    Moderator Moderator Cogito Ergo Sum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darling View Post
    how come oxygen donate electrons to Phosphorous? i mean why should Phosphorous donate electron-pair and again accept from oxygen to form another dative bond? If that's the case what about the double bonds in all oxyacids of phosphorous like H3PO4?? please don't mind my way of questioning..

    Phosphorus donates its e--pair to oxygen in this example, not vice versa.
    A dative covalent bond is formed when an electron pair can be donated to another element that is able to accept it.
    For example, NH4+ is an example of this: H3N| H+ (the two electrons of nitrogen are donated to the proton, which results into a full K-shell for the hydrogen atom).

    The same goes for phosphorus. It donates its two electrons so that oxygen ends with 8 electrons in its valence shell (in P4O10).
    "The only safe rule is to dispute only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong."

    ~ Arthur Schopenhauer, The Art of Being Right: 38 Ways to Win an Argument (1831), Stratagem XXXVIII.
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  8. #7  
    KJW
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cogito Ergo Sum View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Darling View Post
    how come oxygen donate electrons to Phosphorous? i mean why should Phosphorous donate electron-pair and again accept from oxygen to form another dative bond? If that's the case what about the double bonds in all oxyacids of phosphorous like H3PO4?? please don't mind my way of questioning..

    Phosphorus donates its e--pair to oxygen in this example, not vice versa.
    A dative covalent bond is formed when an electron pair can be donated to another element that is able to accept it.
    For example, NH4+ is an example of this: H3N| H+ (the two electrons of nitrogen are donated to the proton, which results into a full K-shell for the hydrogen atom).

    The same goes for phosphorus. It donates its two electrons so that oxygen ends with 8 electrons in its valence shell (in P4O10).
    But it's not the same. Phosphorus in P4O10 is in a +5 oxidation state.
    There are no paradoxes in relativity, just people's misunderstandings of it.
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  9. #8  
    Moderator Moderator Cogito Ergo Sum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KJW View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cogito Ergo Sum View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Darling View Post
    how come oxygen donate electrons to Phosphorous? i mean why should Phosphorous donate electron-pair and again accept from oxygen to form another dative bond? If that's the case what about the double bonds in all oxyacids of phosphorous like H3PO4?? please don't mind my way of questioning..

    Phosphorus donates its e--pair to oxygen in this example, not vice versa.
    A dative covalent bond is formed when an electron pair can be donated to another element that is able to accept it.
    For example, NH4+ is an example of this: H3N| H+ (the two electrons of nitrogen are donated to the proton, which results into a full K-shell for the hydrogen atom).

    The same goes for phosphorus. It donates its two electrons so that oxygen ends with 8 electrons in its valence shell (in P4O10).
    But it's not the same. Phosphorus in P4O10 is in a +5 oxidation state.

    I made a mistake in my reasoning whilst answering this question.
    Thank you for pointing that out!
    "The only safe rule is to dispute only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong."

    ~ Arthur Schopenhauer, The Art of Being Right: 38 Ways to Win an Argument (1831), Stratagem XXXVIII.
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  10. #9  
    Forum Freshman Darling's Avatar
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    thanks to all for your nice explanation,now i'm clear about this...
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