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Thread: Chemical binding through thin (as in single atoms) structures?

  1. #1 Chemical binding through thin (as in single atoms) structures? 
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    Hi, I am curious as to weather or not a chemical can attract another chemical through very thin atomic structures. Thanks


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    Quote Originally Posted by PhDemon View Post
    Can you be more specific in what you are interested in? Ionic materials in solution? Crystals? Covalent molecules? Due to quantum mechanical tunnelling of electrons the answer is almost certainly yes there will be some interactions but they may not be terribly efficient in most cases...
    What I am looking for is a type of "glue" using encased chemicals. Since chemicals can only bind to certain chemicals this glue would be programmable and useful in nanotechnology.


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    Quote Originally Posted by PhDemon View Post
    I've never heard of anything like this (but I don't work in nanotech). Maybe someone who knows more about that may be able to help...
    This does not exist, this is a concept I came up with. (Studying nanotech involves multiple science so I had no clue where to put this ) Do we know if chemicals have a measurable force when they attract?
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    It sounds as though you're talking about using the Strong Force in similar manner to how a person can take two magnets and place one on top of a desktop, one beneath it and move the top magnet around without touching it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    It sounds as though you're talking about using the Strong Force in similar manner to how a person can take two magnets and place one on top of a desktop, one beneath it and move the top magnet around without touching it.
    That's exactly it! If this can happen, we can easily make self assembling nanbots
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    I do not see how it can. Not in practical usage. The strong force is influential only very, very close to the nucleus of an atom.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    I do not see how it can. Not in practical usage. The strong force is influential only very, very close to the nucleus of an atom.
    This is what I am curious about. Some equations need to be worked, if the attraction force is strong enough will this not provide some stability?
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    I do not understand your question. Manipulating equations will not alter the physical state.
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  10. #9  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    I do not understand your question. Manipulating equations will not alter the physical state.
    I am not sure how you got that meaning.
    I am referring to measuring the the chemicals attraction force and seeing if can great enough to pull a object of x mass.
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    Quote Originally Posted by royan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    I do not understand your question. Manipulating equations will not alter the physical state.
    I am not sure how you got that meaning.
    I am referring to measuring the the chemicals attraction force and seeing if can great enough to pull a object of x mass.
    As has already been covered- the strong force has been measured and can be calculated.
    The problem you are running into is that it's "Range of Influence" so to speak is much smaller than the diameter of an atom.
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  12. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by royan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    I do not understand your question. Manipulating equations will not alter the physical state.
    I am not sure how you got that meaning.
    I am referring to measuring the the chemicals attraction force and seeing if can great enough to pull a object of x mass.
    As has already been covered- the strong force has been measured and can be calculated.
    The problem you are running into is that it's "Range of Influence" so to speak is much smaller than the diameter of an atom.
    Hmm. If one talks chemistry, it is not the nuclear Strong Force but electromagnetic forces between electrons and atomic nuclei that one needs to consider. These operate over a longer range - that of chemical bonds, i.e. fractions of a nanometre. Chemical bonds are intramolecular attractions, but there are also intermolecular attractions as well: hydrogen bonding, and various types of Van der Waals attraction - between permanent or induced dipoles or multipoles and dispersion (London) attractive forces. It may be worth studying these a bit for ideas. However the difficulty of course will be that even a monoatomic layer of material in between will feel these forces more strongly than anything on the far side of it and will perturb the effect. And the monoatomic layer will itself contribute forces of its own. So I have difficulty seeing how the idea can be made to work, but perhaps a nanotechnologist would be more optimistic.
    royan likes this.
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  13. #12  
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    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by royan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    I do not understand your question. Manipulating equations will not alter the physical state.
    I am not sure how you got that meaning.
    I am referring to measuring the the chemicals attraction force and seeing if can great enough to pull a object of x mass.
    As has already been covered- the strong force has been measured and can be calculated.
    The problem you are running into is that it's "Range of Influence" so to speak is much smaller than the diameter of an atom.
    Hmm. If one talks chemistry, it is not the nuclear Strong Force but electromagnetic forces between electrons and atomic nuclei that one needs to consider. These operate over a longer range - that of chemical bonds, i.e. fractions of a nanometre. Chemical bonds are intramolecular attractions, but there are also intermolecular attractions as well: hydrogen bonding, and various types of Van der Waals attraction - between permanent or induced dipoles or multipoles and dispersion (London) attractive forces. It may be worth studying these a bit for ideas. However the difficulty of course will be that even a monoatomic layer of material in between will feel these forces more strongly than anything on the far side of it and will perturb the effect. And the monoatomic layer will itself contribute forces of its own. So I have difficulty seeing how the idea can be made to work, but perhaps a nanotechnologist would be more optimistic.
    Thank you, this is exactly what I was looking for, I understand this and it is easier then going through so many publications. I asked about atomic scale magnets in another forum and these have been created, seems useful for a 'glue' though I have not read effects of atomic level magnetism yet.
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  14. #13  
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    Look into the process by which an iron object that is covered in paint, rusts. It turns out that the iron surface grows mono molecular "towers" or "whiskers" through the paint layer to reach the source of oxygen. The paint does not abraid off, the iron actively reaches through it.
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