Thread: NaCl is energy

http://www.anzwers.org/free/energy1/...rgy/index.html

What do you think?
Can it be possible?

Originally Posted by Goldrake

http://www.anzwers.org/free/energy1/salt_is_energy/index.html

What do you think?
Can it be possible?

The latent heat of fusion (melting) is a quantity of energy associated to a change of state solid-liquid. If you want to pass the salt to liquid state, you should give it energy, that liquid gives to you when it passes to solid state. As same as water-ice system.

its a very good example of how chemical bonds can and do store large amounts of energy. just not a very good example of how it can be utilised.

Originally Posted by anubis

Originally Posted by Goldrake

http://www.anzwers.org/free/energy1/salt_is_energy/index.html

What do you think?
Can it be possible?

The latent heat of fusion (melting) is a quantity of energy associated to a change of state solid-liquid. If you want to pass the salt to liquid state, you should give it energy, that liquid gives to you when it passes to solid state. As same as water-ice system.

In this process the temperature remains constant.
All that heat (259 kwh/m3) has been released without being modified the temperature of NaCl.
This process is appropriate to store energy for electric production.

In this process the temperature remains constant.

As in any change of state.

All that heat (259 kwh/m3) has been released without being modified the temperature of NaCl.

Here lies the problem. The heat of fusion is not the heat that may be released when you make the NaCl liquid but the heat you need to apply to achieve this. Check any text book or Wikipedia.

This process is appropriate to store energy for electric production.

False. To store energy you need systems that are able to keep energy in the form of potential energy so that it can be released when needed: like in a battery where you have the energy stored in the form of two compounds that will react as soon as the circuit is closed or like keeping water in a dam to release it afterwrds. NaCl is an extremely stable compound and it is not suitable by itself for this purpose. It´s a hoax.


Best regards,

César

Originally Posted by César

All that heat (259 kwh/m3) has been released without being modified the temperature of NaCl.

Here lies the problem. The heat of fusion is not the heat that may be released when you make the NaCl liquid but the heat you need to apply to achieve this. Check any text book or Wikipedia.

With liquid NaCl one can take 259 kwh/m3 of heat solidifying it without
changing its temperature.

This process is appropriate to store energy for electric production.

False. To store energy you need systems that are able to keep energy in the form of potential energy so that it can be released when needed: like in a battery where you have the energy stored in the form of two compounds that will react as soon as the circuit is closed or like keeping water in a dam to release it afterwrds. NaCl is an extremely stable compound and it is not suitable by itself for this purpose. It´s a hoax.


Best regards,

César

If you add a stirling engine or a vapour power plant then also you will store electric energy.

With liquid NaCl one can take 259 kwh/m3 of heat solidifying it without
changing its temperature.

Where can you find liquid NaCl or in other words where can you find NaCl at 801ºC minimun?

If you add a stirling engine or a vapour power plant then also you will store electric energy.

Where comes the energy from? Answer this after answering the first question, please.

Best regards,

César

I am not a scientist, Cesar :wink:

Goldrake - you have to heat the salt, using enegry. how would you go about heating the salt?

I don't know...

[quote="Goldrake"]

This process is appropriate to store energy for electric production.

If there was a lot of liquid NaCl laying around, maybe it would work. Unfortunately all the NaCl found in nature is solid. Before you could use its heat of fusion to do work you would first have to melt the salt. If you have energy to melt the salt, why not just use it to boil water for a steam turbine instead?

Originally Posted by Scifor Refugee

If there was a lot of liquid NaCl laying around, maybe it would work. Unfortunately all the NaCl found in nature is solid. Before you could use its heat of fusion to do work you would first have to melt the salt. If you have energy to melt the salt, why not just use it to boil water for a steam turbine instead?

I would(will...) use ethanol to melt the salt!!!
It's a storage method that stores 100 KWH of electric energy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Goldrake,

you would have to store it above 801ºC in the center of the tank! You would need lots of energy to do this. Melted NaCl is extremely corrosive, what material would you use?


BTW, why noy just store lava? No need to apply energy to molten it.

Best regards,

César

Goldrake , you have a good mind for thinkin bout these things. teh NaCl isnt the best example. try thinkin about other heat sorces, other natural sources which can be applies. the likes of geothermal energy! keep thinking man.

Hi,

Cesar there is no problem about temperature or materials etc...
A common..cement and inox steel are already sufficient at that temperature.
One needs only around 10.000 tons of ethanol to melt 1 millon m3 of NaCl
that store 100 million kwh of electric energy.


100 kwh/m3 of electric energy!!!


NaCl si the king!

Goldrake,

two clear points:

1. You have to keep it hot => you have to consume energy continuously, not just for melting. There is no need for energy to keep ethanol stored.

2. You are forgetting the second law of thermodynamics => in the transfer of the energy to NaCl from ethanol you are losing part of the energy; in the transfer of energy from NaCl to any other system you are losing energy; in the direct transfer of energy from ethanol to a system you lose energy, ONCE. To use ethanol directly is more efficient.

two clear questions:

3. Why not storing lava?
4. Why not using silicates?

and a doubt:

5. I´m not sure steel could resist melted NaCl at 801ºC.


Best regards,

César

You would want to store ethanol, why?
NaCl storage is so hard for you...

I'm not a chemist so I cannot speak with any authority in this thread, what I can say however, is that if this were an efficient system somebody would have discovered it and be using it somewhere. If you believe it is a revolutionary concept then publish your findings.

Originally Posted by billco

I'm not a chemist so I cannot speak with any authority in this thread, what I can say however, is that if this were an efficient system somebody would have discovered it and be using it somewhere. If you believe it is a revolutionary concept then publish your findings.

My opinion is that american..money..is destroying the world and the decision to put radioactive slags in the salt mines has something to do with it..
This system to store/produce great quantity of renewable energy could be scientifically available a lot of years ago.
There is the need of war to melt the salt also...