Notices
Results 1 to 31 of 31

Thread: Mixing super glue and ajax = bad

  1. #1 Mixing super glue and ajax = bad 
    Forum Isotope (In)Sanity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Mesa AZ
    Posts
    2,697
    Ok, as you may have guessed by my topic I know very little about chemistry, I was curious is anyone could explain why when you mix super glue (cyanoacrylate) and comet or Ajax cleanser (not sure what's in this stuff) you get a lot of heat and some smoke, not to mention the nastiest fumes going. Don't try this in a non ventilated area.


    Reply With Quote  
     

  2.  
     

  3. #2  
    Forum Freshman chovy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Los Gatos, CA
    Posts
    33
    What were you doing that for?

    I used to have a chemistry set as a kid, and I mixed some stuff together and it started smoking. Since then I kind of lost interest. It was pretty cool in high school. Never took it in college.


    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #3  
    Forum Isotope (In)Sanity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Mesa AZ
    Posts
    2,697
    Quote Originally Posted by chovy
    What were you doing that for?
    If you mix super glue with a fine plastic powder you can use it to fill gaps and cracks and such. In this case I was out of such powder and was looking for an alternative. Well I made a very bad choice.
    Pleased to meet you. Hope you guess my name
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #4  
    Forum Freshman chovy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Los Gatos, CA
    Posts
    33
    Ever hear the one about the guy who got his dick superglued to his stomach?

    Had to pee while doing a handstand.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #5  
    Forum Isotope (In)Sanity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Mesa AZ
    Posts
    2,697
    Quote Originally Posted by chovy
    Ever hear the one about the guy who got his dick superglued to his stomach?

    Had to pee while doing a handstand.
    LOL...no I can't say I've heard about that one.
    Pleased to meet you. Hope you guess my name
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #6  
    Forum Ph.D.
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Maastricht, Netherlands
    Posts
    861
    .

    Well, I like chemistry, but the main problem with it is that it is unable to give an answer to such problems. Ajax, and other 'chemical' products consist out of a multitude of chemical compounds. Each of these different compounds react differently to different other compounds, under different conditions.

    This may mean that if you mix them over 40 degrees Celsius that the outcome may be quite different. Still, considering there is chloride in Ajax, and that there might be in the other, I suggest you try not to mix them. Chloride in it's gas form is highly poisonous and should you inhale large quantities of it, I advise you see a physician.

    It always reminds me of this elderly woman who sprayed her toilet with air refreshners, or whatever you might call them, and lit up a sigaret. She did not survive the explosion. Or, some moron who took Natrium, in it's pure form, from school and dumped it at home, afraid his parents would find it in his toilet. The toiled, under the rapid increase of temperature exploded.

    Oh, and if you are interested in kitchen-garden-house chemistry, read the Terrorist's cookbook. Although half of it is nonsense, some of it actually works and can be a blast :P.

    Mr U
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #7  
    Forum Isotope (In)Sanity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Mesa AZ
    Posts
    2,697
    Rumor has it your not suppose to park a truck full of Pool chemicals next to the now not as common Nitrate fertilizer, something about the odd chance that if both trucks had leaky cargo..Boom.

    You have to wonder if truckers know this and are careful where they park. I'm not sure how much validity their is to the story.
    Pleased to meet you. Hope you guess my name
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #8  
    Forum Ph.D.
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Maastricht, Netherlands
    Posts
    861
    Quote Originally Posted by (In)Sanity
    Rumor has it your not suppose to park a truck full of Pool chemicals next to the now not as common Nitrate fertilizer, something about the odd chance that if both trucks had leaky cargo..Boom.

    You have to wonder if truckers know this and are careful where they park. I'm not sure how much validity their is to the story.
    He, I generally just try to stay away from trucks . Anyway, I think their might be truth to that story, but this is probably only the case in distribution centres.

    Odd chance? Rather amusing knowing that in the US people drive around with gas tanks. Although they have extra protection, there is the odd chance that it blows up, and that it will cause a rather big, as you so nicely put, boom .

    Mr U
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #9  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    31
    Quote Originally Posted by HomoUniversalis
    Rather amusing knowing that in the US people drive around with gas tanks. Although they have extra protection, there is the odd chance that it blows up, and that it will cause a rather big, as you so nicely put, boom .
    It's my understanding that the fuller (is that a word, "fuller"? ) you keep your tank, the less chance of explosion. It's the gas vapors that detonate, not the actual liquid fuel - that only burns. So if you want to avoid dying in a Pinto style fireball, fill up regularly.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  11. #10  
    Forum Ph.D.
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Maastricht, Netherlands
    Posts
    861
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary
    Quote Originally Posted by HomoUniversalis
    Rather amusing knowing that in the US people drive around with gas tanks. Although they have extra protection, there is the odd chance that it blows up, and that it will cause a rather big, as you so nicely put, boom .
    It's my understanding that the fuller (is that a word, "fuller"? ) you keep your tank, the less chance of explosion. It's the gas vapors that detonate, not the actual liquid fuel - that only burns. So if you want to avoid dying in a Pinto style fireball, fill up regularly.
    True, but the problem is that if your tank get's penetrated, gas will leak out, go into liquid, and blow up. Although this is not likely to happen, as the protection around the tanks is more than sufficient to protect you from harm if you crash into stuff, there is the odd chance that something get's penetrated. It's the chance of winning the lottery, but than again, every few times someone wins the lottery .

    I'm afraid I'm not up to spec on the actual composition of US gasoline. I just know about the stuff we have here in Europe, and from what I have heard it's a bit less explosive. Now, who is for switching to hydrogen cars?

    It will still cause a boom, but at least it will be good for the environment when it goes bye-bye .

    Mr U
    Reply With Quote  
     

  12. #11  
    Forum Isotope (In)Sanity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Mesa AZ
    Posts
    2,697
    This thread kind of went off topic

    If I understand fuel correctly the higher the octane the slower it burns and also the higher the temperature needed to turn it into a gaseous state. So 87 octane will turn to a gas easier then 93 octane. So using cheap gas puts you at more risk, well in theory. Cars with higher compression ratios need the higher octane to prevent them from firing prematurely (knocking). Here in Arizona I have to run a higher octane in the summer time or my VW runs like crap. Sucking in 120 degree air doesn't help much either.

    What exactly do they use in Europe?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  13. #12  
    Forum Ph.D.
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Dublin, Ireland
    Posts
    945
    Quote Originally Posted by chovy
    Ever hear the one about the guy who got his dick superglued to his stomach?

    Had to pee while doing a handstand.
    that was me!! ba dum tish

    i know you ,,, your avator...?
    Stumble on through life.
    Feel free to correct any false information, which unknown to me, may be included in my posts. (also - let this be a disclaimer)
    Reply With Quote  
     

  14. #13  
    Forum Ph.D.
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Dublin, Ireland
    Posts
    945
    i like mixing stuff, but i stay away from anything that cankill me,
    i like fire too,

    my chemistyr set... i made foam by mixing water an sumthing, but i sealed the testube, it blew up in may face... ouch, lucky i was wearing the supplyed goggles,
    Stumble on through life.
    Feel free to correct any false information, which unknown to me, may be included in my posts. (also - let this be a disclaimer)
    Reply With Quote  
     

  15. #14  
    Forum Sophomore buffstuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Somewhere over the rainbow...
    Posts
    157
    Hey, at least you wore the goggles.
    Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something. -Robert Heinlein
    Reply With Quote  
     

  16. #15  
    Forum Ph.D.
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Dublin, Ireland
    Posts
    945
    Quote Originally Posted by buffstuff
    Hey, at least you wore the goggles.
    i know , by face hurt... for at least .. 2 days!

    (i was a very ..very foolish boy)
    Stumble on through life.
    Feel free to correct any false information, which unknown to me, may be included in my posts. (also - let this be a disclaimer)
    Reply With Quote  
     

  17. #16 lots of rubbing within this thread... 
    Forum Freshman Steve Griffin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    PHX, AZ
    Posts
    70
    Cyanoacrylates and Ajax? Who'd a thunk...it's most likely the hypochlorite (bleach) that's reacting exothermically with the cyanoacrylate. In industry, where one needs to "cure" cyanoacrylates rapidly, one uses a spray of dichloroethylene...methylene chloride will also work, as will carbon tetrachloride, and most halogenated hydrocarbons, but one tries to use the cheapest and least toxic.

    There really is not much to these cleansers and, contrary to a prior post, they do not have lots of components at all. The ones that turn blue use the same reaction as Drierite (copper salts, upon becoming hydrated, turn blue). The ones that bleach, well, they have bleach in them. There is also pumice in there for scrubbing power, a surfactant, and a detergent. Not rocket science.

    Many adhesives are already exothermic in "curing" and all it takes it a couple of things to make them dangerous. There is not one cyanoacrylate and different cyanoacrylates provide different reactivities and other features (like biocompatibility). Where a packet warns against mixing more than so much adhesive (in two part products like epoxies), HEED THE WARNING. A technician in my lab once did not heed the warning, mixing about a half a can (pint or so) of medical grade epoxy. About five minutes passes and it burst into flames. The reaction is exothermic and is accelerated by addition of heat.

    Like hydrofluoric acid and glass -- add too much glass to a bucket of HF and the heat evolved accelerates the reaction until the glass is chewed up at a phenomenal rate. Same with nitric, sulfuric, etc and metals. Ever notice that aluminum in NaOH accelerates? Ah, but not for the same reason...

    But why are hydrogen vehicles better for the environment than gasoline? Seems to be a common belief, but it is simply not true, barring a wormhole to a star or something. It’s the Second Law of Thermodynamics, people – you know, “There is no such thing as a free lunch”.

    You gotta make the hydrogen, right? Takes energy right? Where’s the energy coming from? Right now, it’d be coal, petroleum, nukes and a teeny bit of hydroelectric, wind and solar. Sure, you move the pollution out of the city to the power plant, but the only solution that represents is a POLITICAL solution. What we need is clean solar and wind energy.

    2HOH * 2H2 + O2 with electric current then, in the auto, 2H2 + O2 * 2HOH, back where we started…but we had to put the energy in at the beginning and we get out less than we put in.

    The problem is that the technologies used to make generators and photovoltaic (with reasonable efficiency) actually pollute with nastier stuff than the by products of gasoline combustion. Hell, nukes cause problems, but nothing on the sheer scale of semiconductor and motor manufacture!

    And what is this nonsense HOU, about a woman blowing her bum off with air freshener? Sure, the stuff is flammable, but you’d need quite a bit and confine it to make it explode and, even then, the explosion would be very, very slow (not a TNT event, but more a dynamite event – you do know the difference, don’t you?) This is an urban myth, certainly.

    In my foolish youth, I used to show off by filling my hand with butane from a lighter and lighting it – could hold it long enough to light a smoke (once or twice, then blistering set in). I graduated to filling my mouth…then one day at a friend’s, who used a refillable, I graduated to the big game. First flamethrower from my mouth was very impressive. The second, I ran out of breath before I ran out of butane…went from a long hair to a crew cut in a matter of seconds. But no explosion.

    I know explosions...believe me, I know. From a child I made the nastys, all of them (nitro ain't so bad as some...). I work with some as well. Some I have discovered "serendititously". I have scars and metal fragments in my eyes, across my face, a grossly scarred forefinger and thumb, and some others I’ll no get in to. But from REAL explosives, not flammables.

    There are a couple of household things that make nasty gases if mixed, but unless you have a murder scene to clean-up, you’ll be hard pressed to make ENOUGH to cause any serious harm. Could harm the kiddies, though. I’ve inhaled enough chlorine and fluorine gas (bromine, nitric oxide, sulfur dioxide, etc.) to balance the chemistry of all the pools in all the Olympics, and I am still alive an kicking at 46. It’s the benzene, carbon tetrachloide, pyridine, etc that have me worried.

    Anything else worthy of addressing in this thread will have to wait, lesson over.
    Dr. Silica

    “The definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” – Ben Franklin
    Reply With Quote  
     

  18. #17 To go complete off topic ... 
    j
    j is offline
    Forum Bachelors Degree
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    431
    "More full" rather than "Fuller"; use "more" and "most" with single syllable adjectives.

    Soaps and detergents are basic; in fact, the better the soap, the more basic.

    I am constantly astounded by what is sold to consumers without MSDSs.

    Here we go:

    http://www.camd.lsu.edu/msds/q/quick...#Incompatibles

    Polymerization. With release of chlorine gas.

    Wasn't the "mustard gas" that killed so many people in World War I chlorine gas?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  19. #18 Re: lots of rubbing within this thread... 
    j
    j is offline
    Forum Bachelors Degree
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    431
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Griffin
    There are a couple of household things that make nasty gases if mixed, but unless you have a murder scene to clean-up, you’ll be hard pressed to make ENOUGH to cause any serious harm.
    I profoundly disagree with this statement; people will throw bleach into ammonia cleaning solutions to get rid of the stains.

    And the stuff sold for refininshing furniture? This stuff dissolves coatings designed to withstand the muddy early spring coming-and-goings of an active eight year old and her 70 lb. dog.

    I won't even go out into the garden. People just don't know enough to ask themselves, "If this will get rid of dandelions [or cockroaches or red wine] what will it do to me?"
    Reply With Quote  
     

  20. #19 Mustard is not chlorine 
    Forum Freshman Steve Griffin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    PHX, AZ
    Posts
    70
    No, my good man, mustard gases are organic compounds of several carbons containing an amine and, yes, some chlorine. But containing chlorine does not make it chlorine any more than table salt is chlorine or freon is chlorine.

    And while I fully appreciate your concern for the nasty toxins and potential toxins in household cleaning and pesticide agents, fatalities are exceedingly rare and where they do occur is easily chalked up to natrual selection in action.
    Dr. Silica

    “The definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” – Ben Franklin
    Reply With Quote  
     

  21. #20  
    j
    j is offline
    Forum Bachelors Degree
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    431
    My dear Madam;

    I admit to not being up on my out-dated gaseous weapons. However, it was my understanding that many of the horrible long term effects suffered by survivors of gas attacks were due to chlorine.

    Then again, I could be thinking of phosgene.

    So, by your reasoning, eventually the human race will be highly literate and have very good eye-sight [the better to read the tiny little print that says, "Danger"]. That's good, because the survival of the race can not depend on common sense.

    Yeah, I was mixing up phosgene and mustard gas again.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  22. #21  
    Forum Freshman Steve Griffin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    PHX, AZ
    Posts
    70
    Chlorine gas was used in WWI as a weapon, but nitrogen mustards were much more commonly used. Phosgene was not used, as I recall, but came later -- all are easily made, if one does not mind risking one's life.

    Nitrogen mustards were prefrred becasue to seriously wound an enemy is more advantageous than killing him outright. Wounded soldiers must be cared for and that takes more presonnel than a burial detail. Mustards are classically blistering agents and cause extreme pain. I believe Hitler's lungs were damaged by nitrogen mustard...

    The danger messages that I see are not all that small. My favorite is a sign in Canada that reads, in large type, "Danger! Sign edges are sharp!", then, in much smaller type, "and the bridge is out ahead"...
    Dr. Silica

    “The definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” – Ben Franklin
    Reply With Quote  
     

  23. #22  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    21
    cool stuff steve. Thanks for taking the time to explain all of that.

    A few years ago a women in the town im from died from mixing bleach and ammonia. ugly.



    http://www.netbizplus.com/BB/showthr...id=220#post220
    Reply With Quote  
     

  24. #23  
    Forum Freshman Steve Griffin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    PHX, AZ
    Posts
    70
    Yep, that can be deadly, especially if you are old and can not run fast. Mixing sodium hypochlorite and ammonium hydroxide releases clouds of green gas: chlorine and chloramine, both deadly. But in order to be killed by this reaction, given the relatively low concentrations of the active ingredients in household preparations, one would have to mix a bucket of the stuff and be immediately overcome or otherwise be unable fo escape as it is very readily apparent that you should not stick around...
    Dr. Silica

    “The definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” – Ben Franklin
    Reply With Quote  
     

  25. #24  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    21
    yeah i think she had asthma too.. and started choking.. i dont know. I think someone should write a book on the weird unlikely shit that can easily happen to a person if they dont somehow know better. I think many people could benefit from that.... apparently heh
    Reply With Quote  
     

  26. #25  
    j
    j is offline
    Forum Bachelors Degree
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    431
    Quote Originally Posted by VossistArts
    ... I think someone should write a book on the weird unlikely shit that can easily happen to a person if they dont somehow know better. I think many people could benefit from that.... apparently heh
    www.darwinawards.com

    The first site when you google darwin.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  27. #26  
    JX
    JX is offline
    Forum Junior JX's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    288
    Someone sent me a link to this video from ebaums world and it made me think of this thread:

    http://www.media.ebaumsworld.com/ind...bottlebomb.wmv
    Reply With Quote  
     

  28. #27 Interesting 
    Forum Freshman Steve Griffin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    PHX, AZ
    Posts
    70
    Oops! Could be a couple of things going on here, but most likely the slight acidity of the alcohol was enough to cause the hypochlirite to evolve chlorine gas violently and the explosion was pressure driven, similar to sealing dry ice in a bottle with a bit of hot water.
    Dr. Silica

    “The definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” – Ben Franklin
    Reply With Quote  
     

  29. #28 Re: Interesting 
    JX
    JX is offline
    Forum Junior JX's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    288
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Griffin
    similar to sealing dry ice in a bottle with a bit of hot water.
    Hmmmm....maybe I'll try that sometime!
    Reply With Quote  
     

  30. #29  
    Forum Freshman Steve Griffin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    PHX, AZ
    Posts
    70
    If you do, my I strongly suggest using a plastic bottle and lots of patience and some considerable distance?

    As a kid, working at an ice cream parlor, we started with plastic soda straws filled with beads of dry ice (smash a chunk on the countertop and you get tons of beads) tossed into the hot mop sink (one folds one end of the straw, tapes it shut, fill the straw and fold/tape the other end and toss) -- they go off like fire crackers.

    We gradually scaled the things until, one day, my buddy put about an ounce of the dry ice in a gallon jug with hot water and capped it. He put it in the median of the road in front of the store and we all waited for the explosion around the corner...after five minutes or so, my buddy got impatient and rode his bike out to retrieve the bottle. Next thing we heard was a huge BOOM and he came wobbling around the corner, soaked to the skin with the remnants of the bottle handle dangling from his shreaded fingers, bleeding from several dozen puncture wounds. OOPS! Shoulda waited a bit longer...

    You see, the dry ice freezes the water immediately around it, slowing the sublimation. The initial rapid gas evolution slows to a crawl, gradually building up the pressure...
    Dr. Silica

    “The definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” – Ben Franklin
    Reply With Quote  
     

  31. #30  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    9
    Thats crazy! i had a simillar reaction happen to me! ok heres the deal.. i was making a lightning detector and it involved super gluing thorium (radioactive) onto the edge of a rasorblade (in case your wondering i got the thorium from an old lantern mantle.. thorium has an incredibly high melting point) anyway.. as soon as i mixed the thorium powder and glue it started smoking and got really hot and dried instantly to paper i was mixing it on! I still dont know what happened.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  32. #31 could have been a couple of things... 
    Forum Freshman Steve Griffin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    PHX, AZ
    Posts
    70
    The common element in these two super glue posts is combining the glue with a finely divided powder (at least I am assuming the thorium was finely divided) so it could be that the reaction is not a reaction, per se, but an increase in the kinetics of super glue cure on large surface area.

    Or the thorium may have catalyzed the super glue cure...but I think the former is more likely. It could be tested by trying mixing super glue with a finely divided but relatively inert material, like fumed silica or carbon black...
    Dr. Silica

    “The definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” – Ben Franklin
    Reply With Quote  
     

Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •