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Thread: Cooling-liquid

  1. #1 Cooling-liquid 
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    Hey, I'm new to this forum.

    I'm looking for a fluid that does not freeze in a regular freezer at -4 degree Fahrenheit or -20 degree celsius.

    It would be best if it is easily available and not toxic, maybe a mixture of alcohol and water would do it?

    If you have better ways of cooling water fast without a cost out of the ordinary please comment.


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  3. #2  
    Forum Isotope Bunbury's Avatar
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    40% propylene glycol/water


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  4. #3  
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    I'm pretty sure that qualifies as toxic though.

    What would you need this for, it could help narrowing the options down.
    Either way, don't start drinking propylene glycol
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  5. #4  
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    To cool water in a freezer faster than just putting it in there.

    I'm gonna try to see if i can make a container inside the freezer which has a pre-cooled fluid to help speed up the cooling process.
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  6. #5  
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    so your substance would not only have to prevent water from freezing in your freezer (at say -20C) but allso make it freeze faster.

    If you only have to make it freeze faster I suggest warming it up first. I know it sounds counter-intuitive, but warm/hot water actually reaches it's freezing point faster than cold water.
    so if you wanna freeze water faster ... warm it up :P
    See THIS link for an explanation


    if you want it to cool down to below -20C without becoming a solid I'd go for alcohol (seeing how it shouldn't be toxic).
    a number of substances will do, since most will have cyroscopic effects on water. Even kitchen salt does the trick (allthough I'm not sure if you can reach -20C) with that.
    If flavour is no problem try adding acetic acid. I wouldn't just go ahead and drink it at the concentration needed to reach -20C, but it won't kill to use in a dish or w/e.

    getting your water to cool down faster I wouldn't know from the top of my head how to do it. But you could try to use a physical approach rather than chemical.
    When you put something in the freezer it is in contact with colder air, which doesn't transfer thermic energy too good.
    You could simply add a container with the 40% propylene glycol/water in your freezer a day or 2 beforehand. It'll be an aquaeous solution at -20. If you put your bottle in that liquid rather than just somewhere in your freezer it will cool down much faster.
    even saline water, water with alcohol or just some kitchen vinegar will reach this effect in a freezer. Just make sure you end up with a liquid solution at the lowest temperature you wish to achieve.

    I'm still curious as to what you are trying to achieve. Why would you want to cool down your water faster?
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  7. #6  
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    "When you put something in the freezer it is in contact with colder air, which doesn't transfer thermic energy too good."

    Hit the nail on the head there, that is exactly why I got this idea ^^

    "I'm still curious as to what you are trying to achieve. Why would you want to cool down your water faster?"

    Just what I'm saying but to go in details.. When you come from the supermarket with a non-cooled substance. Juice, beer, soda etc. it takes forever to cool down, even in the freezer because of the conclusion we both reached.
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  8. #7  
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    Actually, propylene glycol is relatively non-toxic (with some exceptions) and is used as a food additive, in cosmetics, in "e-cigarettes" and more:

    http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/csem/egpg/p...ne_glycol.html

    http://www.canadavapes.com/health/pr...ol-safety.html
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  9. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonb
    if you want it to cool down to below -20C without becoming a solid I'd go for alcohol (seeing how it shouldn't be toxic).
    If you're working around food, ethyl alcohol should be okay as far as toxicity goes. But, I'd stay away from isopropanol (main ingredient in many "rubbing alcohols") and methanol in that context. In fact, methyl alcohol is extremely toxic.

    http://msds.chem.ox.ac.uk/ME/methyl_alcohol.html

    http://kinetronics.com/PLCMSDSData.pdf
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  10. #9  
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    I might suggest that rather than putting the beverage in the air that you place it in contact with the sides of the freezer. More thermal mass, faster heat transfer.
    Along the same line, get a larger container and place an empty beverage container (filled with water for weight) or three in it, fill the outer container with water and freeze it solid. When you get home, take out the inner water filled beverage container and place the one you want to cool in the hole. The surrounding ice will be at the ambient temperature (-4 F), the warmer new container will melt a little of the surrounding ice and rapidly remove the heat from the new one. Again, more thermal mass from the block of ice as well.

    No need to fool with liquids in the freezer, that will evetually cause a big mess when you knock it over. And you will
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  11. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by MeteorWayne
    I might suggest that rather than putting the beverage in the air that you place it in contact with the sides of the freezer. More thermal mass, faster heat transfer.
    Along the same line, get a larger container and place an empty beverage container (filled with water for weight) or three in it, fill the outer container with water and freeze it solid. When you get home, take out the inner water filled beverage container and place the one you want to cool in the hole. The surrounding ice will be at the ambient temperature (-4 F), the warmer new container will melt a little of the surrounding ice and rapidly remove the heat from the new one. Again, more thermal mass from the block of ice as well.

    No need to fool with liquids in the freezer, that will evetually cause a big mess when you knock it over. And you will
    (Why do my quotes look messed up?)

    Makes sense, except the knocking it over thing, there are ways around that... like spreading the weight on a larger surface. Also I intend to put a lid on and make the rim 'waterproof'(in lack of a better word), maybe even a storage tank at the side for the overflowing liquid(when you put something in), you can tip the storage tank to dose the right amount.
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  12. #11  
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    Actually, propylene glycol is relatively non-toxic (with some exceptions) and is used as a food additive, in cosmetics, in "e-cigarettes" and more
    That is correct, but when the OP asked for non-toxic I assumed he was gonna find a way to make his beverages cool faster by adding something and then drinking them.

    I never suggest drinking 40% propylene glycol :P

    but yeah, get the container of your choice in contact with a better surface to transfer heat and you're good to go.
    you could try to just buy some gelpacks (usually blue or green) that would be used to put ice on injuries.
    They can go to like -35C and not freeze and they transfer the thermal energy pretty well.
    Wrap a soda can or w/e in those. If you just leeve them in the freezer afterwards they should allways be cold anyways, so no need to wait for them to cool first.
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  13. #12  
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    Sounds like a plan I'll do that as a temporary solution.

    I think I'm gonna try to see if I can make the container with cooling fluid in though. It will be fun to make and nice to have around.

    By the way..
    "I never suggest drinking 40% propylene glycol"

    I know of people who have done that. They did while on 'antabuse' too. Severe cases of alcoholism. I was amazed when I was first told about it, I believed you would die from doing that.
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  14. #13  
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    Something causing an endothermic reaction, like those icepacks the school nurse had.

    Solid barium hydroxide octahydrate and ammonium thiocyanate mixed together, perhaps.
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  15. #14  
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    My solution is the simplest, most non-toxic, and least likely to cause problems. Since the OP continues to ignore it, my participation in this thread is ended.

    Complication for the sake of making things more complicated is a waste of time and effort.
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  16. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by MeteorWayne
    My solution is the simplest, most non-toxic, and least likely to cause problems. Since the OP continues to ignore it, my participation in this thread is ended.

    Complication for the sake of making things more complicated is a waste of time and effort.
    I'm not ignoring it mate, just experimenting. In fact what you suggested is what I've done up till now. I want to see if i can make it freeze faster. And using the gel packs is non-toxic too since the chemicals don't get in contact with the beverage. I haven't ignored any of the suggestions.

    I've considered how you would use each of the suggestions with most efficiency without intoxicating the beverage. That requires that you look past the chemical aspect and look into the mechanical and physical realm too.
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