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Thread: Chemical Bonding of Ions? Confused?

  1. #1 Chemical Bonding of Ions? Confused? 
    Forum Freshman LotusTiger's Avatar
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    I'm a little confused. My Book makes it sound like Ions chemically bond becasue they have opposite charges? Does this mean an Ion will bond with another Ion of opposite charge even if both those Ions have eight electrons in their outer shell?


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    Reptile Dysfunction drowsy turtle's Avatar
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    It depends what you mean by a chemical bond.

    An ionic bond is just the attraction between positive and negatively charged ions.

    Generally ionic compounds do not form molecules, as each ion is attracted to a number of oppositely charged ions rather than just one.


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    Forum Freshman asxz's Avatar
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    I got confused about this too. From what I gather, Na will bond with Cl because they both are one electron off a afull shell.

    Na becomes Na+ because it looses an electron. Cl become Cl- because it gains an electron.

    The opposite charges attract each other, but do not undergo a chemical change. Chemical changes would be when atoms form covalent bonds, or when the Na and the Cl produce ions.

    The change that they do have is physical. This means that they form Ionic bonds with each other, or they join together with other atoms, without sharing bonds.

    An example of a physical change is when Fe clumps together, with some about 3% Cl mixed in. Although they do not undergo a chemical change, and form covalent bonds, they still form steel.

    The Na+ and the Cl- atoms can not undergo a chemical change because of their full outer shells. If you were to reverse this process, then that would be a chemical change.

    The compound NaCl gan still undergo physical changes, such as being desolved by water. This is not chemical because although the water molecules break apart the NaCl molecule, it still does not change the number of electrons in its outer shell, like it would with a chemical change.

    By the way, I'm still trying to get the hang of this, so please correct me if I'm worng! Thank you, and I hope I was of help!
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    Quote Originally Posted by asxz
    I got confused about this too. From what I gather, Na will bond with Cl because they both are one electron off a afull shell.

    Na becomes Na+ because it looses an electron. Cl become Cl- because it gains an electron.

    The opposite charges attract each other, but do not undergo a chemical change. Chemical changes would be when atoms form covalent bonds, or when the Na and the Cl produce ions.

    The change that they do have is physical. This means that they form Ionic bonds with each other, or they join together with other atoms, without sharing bonds.

    An example of a physical change is when Fe clumps together, with some about 3% Cl mixed in. Although they do not undergo a chemical change, and form covalent bonds, they still form steel.

    The Na+ and the Cl- atoms can not undergo a chemical change because of their full outer shells. If you were to reverse this process, then that would be a chemical change.

    The compound NaCl gan still undergo physical changes, such as being desolved by water. This is not chemical because although the water molecules break apart the NaCl molecule, it still does not change the number of electrons in its outer shell, like it would with a chemical change.

    By the way, I'm still trying to get the hang of this, so please correct me if I'm worng! Thank you, and I hope I was of help!
    Sorry mate, thats a long way from being accurate. When I have more time I will come back and write down my understanding of the subject.

    To answer the op. First off read up on what makes an ion. An ion won't have a full shell.
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    Actually farmboy, asxz was very accurate except that (s)he should have had a C where the Cl was when talking about steel. And an ion definitely will have a full shell because it gained or lost electrons in order to obtain it, and that is why it is an ion in the first place.
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    So wait... steel is made up of iron, and a 3% mix of copper, or is it carbon? I thought it was copper... don't know why I put Clorine!

    Anyways... the only reason that I knew all of that is because yesterday we watched a really cheesy vidoe on what was talking abuot. I had been reading about ions before, but I had the same problem as Lotus Tiger. The video [no matter how stupid and annoying and stupid and cheesy and stupid - I should get some better adjectives - it was] made me remember it!\

    Yeah... but the bonds aren't chemical... that's physical change when the two ions attract!
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    Steel is iron and carbon.

    Yes, the attraction between ions is physical. And the reaction between say Na and Cl where Na loses an electron to Cl is a chemical change. When this chemical change takes place, it is possible for the oppositely charged ions to attract each other via the electromagnetic force.
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    Actually steel is a solid solution of carbon in iron, no ionic bonding in this case.
    Steels are alloys not compounds.
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  10. #9 Re: Chemical Bonding of Ions? Confused? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by LotusTiger
    I'm a little confused. My Book makes it sound like Ions chemically bond becasue they have opposite charges? Does this mean an Ion will bond with another Ion of opposite charge even if both those Ions have eight electrons in their outer shell?
    Hello,

    In an ionic species the bonding is more easily described as a transfer of one or more electrons between two species. So one atom becomes positively charged and the other atom becomes negatively charged.

    In the ionic bond the outer atomic orbital of one atom is able to accept a transfer of an electron(s) from another atom. In the end the net energy of the newly formed ionic species must be lower than the net energy of each atom on its own… Typically the transferred electron(s) will occupy an orbital closer to the nucleus – and therefore be held more tightly by the nucleus of one atom than the other thus providing a new species lower in energy.

    Whose electrons go where depends largely on the electronegativity of each atom. The more electronegative atom typically gets the electron(s)… furthermore atoms with larger gaps in their respective electronegativities typically form species lower in energy and therefore have stronger ionic correlations, whereas atoms that are closer in electronegativity typical form species closer to themselves in energy and therefore have weaker ionic correlations…
    This is all relative as eventually you’ll enter the realm of the covalent bond.

    Hope this helps… : )
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chemboy
    Actually farmboy, asxz was very accurate except that (s)he should have had a C where the Cl was when talking about steel. And an ion definitely will have a full shell because it gained or lost electrons in order to obtain it, and that is why it is an ion in the first place.
    Sorry if I came across as rude last time, that wasn't my intention at all. Apologies to asxz, I completely misunderstood the question, and said you were wrong as a result, when you weren't.

    One point I was trying to make last time, but faled miserably is that all ionic bonds still have some covalent character, and so are still types of chemical bond, even if it is electrostatic attraction that is the main biding force.
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    Hi... im a college student..
    i would like you people to give me some advice regarding my problem now...
    my Professor assign us to research the reaction of caustic soda with red algae...
    He wants us to find for a higher quality of gel using caustic soda extracting seaweed...

    Im very desperate to know the answer... because this is my only way to pass chemistry for this semester....


    I've tried it many times yet my quality is not enough..... can u please help me..
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  13. #12  
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    Quote Originally Posted by ipzwitch
    Hi... im a college student..
    i would like you people to give me some advice regarding my problem now...
    my Professor assign us to research the reaction of caustic soda with red algae...
    He wants us to find for a higher quality of gel using caustic soda extracting seaweed...

    Im very desperate to know the answer... because this is my only way to pass chemistry for this semester....


    I've tried it many times yet my quality is not enough..... can u please help me..
    I'm not sure what the question is, and the relation to the current topic is also lacking. I would suggest posting your own thread to clarify the problem, and start a new.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scifor Refugee
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  14. #13 Re: Chemical Bonding of Ions? Confused? 
    Forum Freshman izumabakumatsu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LotusTiger
    I'm a little confused. My Book makes it sound like Ions chemically bond becasue they have opposite charges? Does this mean an Ion will bond with another Ion of opposite charge even if both those Ions have eight electrons in their outer shell?
    I may be wrong here but doesn't it states that once an electron sheel becomes octet, it becomes inert??? I know this applies to the main-group of elements and that there are exceptions but... won't an ion with a stable configuration becomes an element???

    YOur book is quite correct. THey are attracted because they are opposite in charge. Similar to how the south pole of a magnet is attracted to the north pole of a magnet. They become ions because they donate and receive ions from each other, obtainind a full valence shell.

    COvalent bonds on the other hand share the remainng needed electrons between them. Just think about how a Siamese twin share certain parts of their body to live.

    Hmm... I wonder if my rants are right this time. X(
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  15. #14  
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    Ions bond together with other ions to gain a full outer shell of electrons.

    For example, carbon needs 4 electrons to gain a full outer shell. It can bond with 4 hydrogens who share their electron with the carbon meaning the carbon now has 8 electrons or a full outer shell. The ionic bond forms Methane or CH4.


    Another example is that of NH3 or ammonia. Nitrogen needs 3 electrons so its shares with 3 hydrogen atoms.

    Carbon needs 4 electrons. Oxygen needs 2. So 2 Oxygen bond with one carbon. 4+2+2=8=Full outer shell. This makes Carbon Dioxide CO2.


    I hope this helps.
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  16. #15  
    Reptile Dysfunction drowsy turtle's Avatar
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    BTW these are covalent bonds you have described (very well), and not ionic.
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  17. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by asxz
    I got confused about this too. From what I gather, Na will bond with Cl because they both are one electron off a afull shell.

    Na becomes Na+ because it looses an electron. Cl become Cl- because it gains an electron.

    The opposite charges attract each other, but do not undergo a chemical change. Chemical changes would be when atoms form covalent bonds, or when the Na and the Cl produce ions.

    The change that they do have is physical. This means that they form Ionic bonds with each other, or they join together with other atoms, without sharing bonds.
    Ionic bonds always confuse me.
    I thought that the two ions of opposite charge bonded together to form a new compund (new chemical) with its own new separate properties (it does not necessarily have the properties of either of the ions it is formed of). Would this not be a 'chemical change' (because the two ions bonded to form a completely different subtance)?
    However, reading this thread has made me think: Hang on, if the atoms loose or gain electrons (to form ions of positive or negative charge) before being attracted to one another and bonding to form an ionic compound, does that not mean that they now have full outer shells therefore are inert and cannot undergo a chemical change? What about the ionic bond they form next? Is this not a chemical change?
    I can never seem to get to the bottom of ionic bonds. Whenever I think i've reached a conclusive understanding, there's always something that will confuse me again!
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  18. #17  
    Reptile Dysfunction drowsy turtle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wojang
    Quote Originally Posted by asxz
    I got confused about this too. From what I gather, Na will bond with Cl because they both are one electron off a afull shell.

    Na becomes Na+ because it looses an electron. Cl become Cl- because it gains an electron.

    The opposite charges attract each other, but do not undergo a chemical change. Chemical changes would be when atoms form covalent bonds, or when the Na and the Cl produce ions.

    The change that they do have is physical. This means that they form Ionic bonds with each other, or they join together with other atoms, without sharing bonds.
    Ionic bonds always confuse me.
    I thought that the two ions of opposite charge bonded together to form a new compund (new chemical) with its own new separate properties (it does not necessarily have the properties of either of the ions it is formed of). Would this not be a 'chemical change' (because the two ions bonded to form a completely different subtance)?
    However, reading this thread has made me think: Hang on, if the atoms loose or gain electrons (to form ions of positive or negative charge) before being attracted to one another and bonding to form an ionic compound, does that not mean that they now have full outer shells therefore are inert and cannot undergo a chemical change? What about the ionic bond they form next? Is this not a chemical change?
    An ionic bond is just where two oppositely charged ions attract one another. There is no change to either of the ions, but the compound as a whole is different.
    "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." ~ Douglas Adams
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