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Thread: creating an acid? easiest ways?

  1. #1 creating an acid? easiest ways? 
    Forum Freshman danacus2's Avatar
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    creating an acid? easiest ways?
    i dont have much chemicals around so i wont have alot to react.
    anyone?


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    Ferrate (VI) + Ammonia might work


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  4. #3  
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    can you suggest any easyer chemicals to get ahold of what can do this?
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  5. #4  
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    lemon juice, or vinegar.
    "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." ~ Douglas Adams
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  6. #5  
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    Quote Originally Posted by drowsy turtle
    lemon juice, or vinegar.

    is there any easy way of removing the other chemicals to make it purer?
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  7. #6  
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    what is this for exactly?
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  8. #7  
    Forum Freshman danacus2's Avatar
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    simply for experimenting with acidic erosion, and just having fun also
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    eroding what?
    depending on what the substance is, the other constituents of vinegar, lemon juice etc. may be essentially inert so wouldnt affect the experiment except to lower the concentration of the acid solution.
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  10. #9  
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    thats the point id like to make an acid or use an acid, and strengthen it.
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  11. #10  
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    you're not making much sense to me.
    Go through your experiment step by step and i'll see if i can help.
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  12. #11  
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    well its not an experiment as such, just want a chemical thats acidic that i can make dilute and higher acidity.
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    well, there might be a mixture out there with non-acidic constituents that boil off before the acid.
    effectively: 'distill' some lemon juice or whatever.

    Look up constituents of lemon juice, vinegar, bleach and check their boiling points see if an acid comes out top or bottom (you could collect the vapour).

    otherwise, pay a trip to local school's prep room and 'borrow' some. You might even be able to order some off the internet.
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    i am searching this up, but nobody seems to be providing the exact information i need, and some mention whats in lemon juice, but dont even mention the citric acid!
    still searching for details,
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  15. #14  
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    nope still nothing, this is what i dislike about the internet. it can be as useless as asking a 1year old a scientific question.
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  16. #15  
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    Keep in mind that the popular conception of acid as some generic corrosive material might be leading you astray. Acid has to do with how it modifies the levels of H+ ions in water (IIRC, it's been a while since Chemistry). The actual reactions an "acid" causes depends more on the molecule than the pH. Citric acid is a different substance, and reacts differently, from say, sulfuric acid. A "strong" acid in chemistry means it's propensity to disassociate. Not it's reactive potential.

    If you just want to watch things corrode, it doesn't have to be acidic necessarily. Just try various substances (carefully!). As an example: If you have a sugar cube, pure water, by definition a neutral substance, will "corrode" it.
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    Water is actually amphoteric and can act as both an acid and a base.

    It splits up into H30+ and OH-
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  18. #17 Acid 
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    You want acid, go get some battery acid at the auto parts store. You want kick ass acid boil that till white fumes come off now you have concentrated H2SO4.DANGER!@ss
    Want weaker stuff go get a bottle of vinegar. Judging from your questions I probably gave you enough information to hurt yourself.
    PURE water will not corrode anything, corrosion is an electrolytic process requireing ions ie Cl ,SO4,OH etc. in the water. Water on sugar is not corrosin its solvation. Sugar itself wont corrode a thing except your teeth.
    You want steel to corrode put salt water on it.
    Good luck if you live thru it.
    Better yet forget it till you learn some chemistry.
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  19. #18  
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    I was using a more lay meaning of "corrode", since I didn't think the OP has a strong backing in chemistry jargon.
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  20. #19  
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    We are not going to tell you how to make corrosive substances out of household materials, least of all when you come across as a pentulant teen that wants to mess around with cool sounding chemicals


    Firstly Attempting to do anything like refine the acidic elements of something like bleach or even vinegar outside of a controlled enviroment is very dangerous, there are chemicals out there that can eat through glass beakers and floors in concentrated amounts and you stand a very high chance of making a corrosive/caustic/toxic substance without profesional help, even more so since you appear to not have any qualifications in such materials, otherwise you would have just bought the neccessary chemicals from a supplier


    Secondly although I'm not sure what your intending to do random reactions are not interesting, reactions done in the professional world and the classroom work because of several reasons and rules, simply getting ahold of an acid and chucking something in it is not going to work if you knew what you were working with (as you obviously don't) then you could work out a preferable equation and move on from there
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  21. #20  
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    im not a teen messing with acid and stuff. im not stupid i do realise what chemicals will react with what, and im fully aware that chemicals at strongest can go through floors.
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  22. #21 Re: Acid 
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    Quote Originally Posted by fizzlooney
    You want acid, go get some battery acid at the auto parts store. You want kick ass acid boil that till white fumes come off now you have concentrated H2SO4.DANGER!@ss
    Want weaker stuff go get a bottle of vinegar. Judging from your questions I probably gave you enough information to hurt yourself.
    PURE water will not corrode anything, corrosion is an electrolytic process requireing ions ie Cl ,SO4,OH etc. in the water. Water on sugar is not corrosin its solvation. Sugar itself wont corrode a thing except your teeth.
    You want steel to corrode put salt water on it.
    Good luck if you live thru it.
    Better yet forget it till you learn some chemistry.
    pure water does corrode things, all though there are no ions like Cl and SO4 water undergoes disproportionation even when it's pure and splits up into H+ and OH-
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  23. #22  
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    Quote Originally Posted by danacus2
    im not a teen messing with acid and stuff. im not stupid i do realise what chemicals will react with what, and im fully aware that chemicals at strongest can go through floors.
    Most acids usually only work well hot. If you want to remove metal you have to heat the metal and acid for serious removal of metal. You can make metal melt away like wax in a fire, with the right acid applied hot.

    I have built heated tanks for hot acid baths and other applications. One metal will be effected while another will not. Some castings of the same metal will etch away while others with a different alloy will not.

    Certain carburetors are made of a different mixture of aluminum and other alloys, and will not etch away cleanly, in hot sulfuric acid, but will rather turn black. Creating an oxidized layer that stops some of the action. This needs to be treated with another process if you want to bring it back to a metallic luster.

    Some other corrosives like ferric chloride can eat away brass at room temperature, with movement like a constant stream of fresh ferric chloride running over the brass parts. Often they mask off the parts with rubber, so only the area they want to eat away is eaten away. The area under the rubber mask is left alone.

    Hydrofluoric acid, is the one that etches glass. It is funny but I grew up in a town that had a Fluoride water treatment system. Our water had no chlorine taste. But if they worked on the pipes, you could get a fluorine taste.

    Hydrofluoric acid comes in a plastic bottle today. Years ago it came in a glass bottle with a plastic lining.

    This stuff in contact with reagent grade hydrochloric acid, in minute quantities can create a room full of lethal gas in seconds. I am sure of it.
    Hydrofluoric acid etches porcelain or other substances that have silicon in them.

    Hydrofluoric acid can react violently with water, liberating heat and nasty fumes that can kill instantly. Burn the cilia right out of your lungs. Or burn your lungs. Causing instant pneumonia. Just like chlorine fumes or phosgene fumes can.

    Some are a bit paranoid of this substance. Because in such small quantities, as little as a few drops of each substance, Hydrofluoric and Hydrochloric acid. They can wipe out a whole room of people. It can be stored in tiny glass tubes that can be hidden on the person.

    It got so bad that we started to hide its effects. A cargo plane in 1992 carrying both hydrochloric and hydrofluoric acid, caused the deaths of the pilots, and on the ground at the apartment house in Holland, the plane hit. People in the apartments and firemen were suffocated.

    Our government that allowed the two chemicals to be placed on the plane legally, next to one another. Out of ignorance, and the cover-ups, involved with these chemicals, later denied that these two chemicals are dangerous together. Despite CNN putting this on the news many times.

    AOL had my web pages warning of this for many years. Recently they took down or stopped the AOL hometown Web site. But I still tell people about it.

    Many of us that work with these chemicals know this was not an American action. Foreign powers or interests are in control of the United States.

    Only when these things come out, and the individuals responsible for the cover ups, at least tell why they did it. Can we get back to science. I am not for punishing but rather just getting to the truth.

    I worked in the field of Hazardous waste. And I know that colleges are not training college people to survive encounters with these chemicals. Or to survive experiences with these chemicals during an accident.

    Over the years working with hazardous waste chemicals or new chemicals accidentally mixed. I have seen the most horrendous lack of safety from college trained people, dealing with these situtations.

    All because of cover ups of accidents that are table talk to the average individual that works with them. College or no college.

    I believe that in very small very controlled experiments you can get an idea of the scale of a small reaction compared to a larger accident.

    To give you an example when I was younger a friend of mine and myself were mixing copper sulfate and a few other chemicals together. Well we saw it start to bubble in the test tube. So we ran it into the kitchen sink to uncork it, and let it neutralize in the sink with some water.

    When I took the cork off, it exploded. It sprayed blue chemicals all over the ceiling. My father never could figure out what was causing it. He thought something in the attic. I just kept quiet and shock my head in puzzlement.

    This small test and training allowed me in later life to see a similar situation. A college trained individual working with chemicals, and in charge of the situation. Was about to put the bong top on a steel 55 gallon drum, after mixing neutralizing chemicals with the unknown reacting substance.
    When he realized that what ever he used was actually causing a rather violent reaction. He kind of went into a panic and started to put the bong top on.

    When the pressure was keeping him from putting it on easily, I yelled over to him, "Do not put that cap on!" As soon as he stopped he totally realized what I was saying. He said your right. I don't know what I was thinking.

    But I understand what he was thinking about. We were in a giant electronics companies research chemistry lab, and he did not want to have to report it to the EPA. If the smoke started to get to thick we would have to call it in.

    But for a little ego we could have all been blown apart. And taken the lab with us. It is well known in my industry and amongst firefighters that bong top drums can be hurled a half mile into the air during a fire. Or during chemical reactions in the drums.


    Acids usually hurt, eyes. Often a tissue, rag, napkin or paper towel, that has gotten acid on it during an accident. During a subsequent or later cleanup, can become like a powdered ash.
    Later you go back to the seen to clean up. And you drop a box of cleaning products down. And the tissue becomes a cloud of airborne, blinding dust or powder. That can cause permanent eye damage.

    Tiny bits of your experiment can spatter around, dry or dehydrate. If subjected to a gust of wind cause also eye damage.

    I was once taken away from a Superfund site, with cyanide in my eye. I was collecting a few goodies in a box from the site. With the owner of the buildings permission. I had my eye protection off. There was just a little dust in the box. When I dropped something into the box. I felt the most outrageous burning I had ever felt in my eye.

    Nothing could neutralize it. The particle was so hungry for water, that it stuck to my eye. Until a doctor removed it. The doctor remarked it was almost magnetized to my eye.

    Never look under a chemical truck or any truck that might have hauled chemicals. Often debris can fall in your eye. Wear eye protection if you have to inspect a truck suspected of carrying chemicals. Often you can smell their corrosive nature.

    Acids can also cause instant lung damage. Ammonia will do that cold. Some other chemicals as well will cause lung damage, instantly.

    So have plenty of ventilation. I recommend experimenting outside or in a garage with an open garage door. You can always bolt out of the garage. And as the neighbors gather around, to see the horrific failure of your experimentation. You can say "Those darn kids!" in a serious tone. Ha-ha.

    Muriatic acid is an interesting substance as well. They use it in shipyards to clean off barnacles. And to clean off car radiators for soldering. Also used for cleaning parts in a tank.


    Sincerely,


    William McCormick
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  24. #23  
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    You can boil vinegar it will get strong.

    You can pickle stuff hot in seconds. I learned that from one of those cooking shows. The guy that finds leftovers in his refrigerator.



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    William McCormick
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  25. #24  
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    Wild Willy strikes again!
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  26. #25  
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    Just one point of order (hey, you did the same to me)

    Heating does not increase the strength of the acid. It increases the kinetic energy, so that reactions occur faster. Acid strength does not change.
    "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." ~ Douglas Adams
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  27. #26  
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    BY the way William, steel drums have a BUNG hole and a BUNG plug, a bong is something you smoke weed from which may explain most of your answers.
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  28. #27  
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    hydrogen+ cation=acid

    Natural acids are easy, vinegar, lemon juice, tea tree oil, peroxide.

    You can also buy it on the internet.

    Pimple medication has acid also

    Not gonig to have much luck buying things for acid and not ending up on some government watch list. Corrosion can be tested with pretty basic stuff. Also try looking into bases for that, since NaOH is pretty easy to get online for labrotory stuff, and you can dilute that and use that to corrode some stuff.
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  29. #28  
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    Quote Originally Posted by drowsy turtle
    Just one point of order (hey, you did the same to me)

    Heating does not increase the strength of the acid. It increases the kinetic energy, so that reactions occur faster. Acid strength does not change.

    i beleive it srengthens it slightly by heat as the water evaporates am i incorrect? which makes it slightly more acidic?

    i already knew the energy part simon, but when you heat vinegar for example, you get steam, which is water, and possibly other stuff but you get what im getting at, i amy be wrong, i am only asking.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fizzlooney
    BY the way William, steel drums have a BUNG hole and a BUNG plug, a bong is something you smoke weed from which may explain most of your answers.
    You are technically correct. However in the industry we say bong top. We do not say bung top.

    I do not take drugs. I have tasted just about every chemical and drug, known to mankind, but that is what chemists used to do.



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    Quote Originally Posted by danacus2
    Quote Originally Posted by drowsy turtle
    Just one point of order (hey, you did the same to me)

    Heating does not increase the strength of the acid. It increases the kinetic energy, so that reactions occur faster. Acid strength does not change.

    i beleive it srengthens it slightly by heat as the water evaporates am i incorrect? which makes it slightly more acidic?

    i already knew the energy part simon, but when you heat vinegar for example, you get steam, which is water, and possibly other stuff but you get what im getting at, i amy be wrong, i am only asking.
    That is what I am saying about vinegar. You remove some of the water. You can make it very potent. Surprisingly potent. I was able to pickle stuff in seconds that used to take hours.

    The second effect, that also occurs, is the chemical reactions, they speed up. So if an acid was going to eat through ten thousands of an inch of metal at room temperature in an hour. With heat it might do that in ten seconds.

    With sodium hydroxide a caustic, you can remove deep scratches from Aluminum, in a few minutes. A Polish chemist and friend, uses it to do just that. It is amazing to see.




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    William McCormick
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  32. #31  
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    Quote Originally Posted by danacus2
    Quote Originally Posted by drowsy turtle
    Just one point of order (hey, you did the same to me)

    Heating does not increase the strength of the acid. It increases the kinetic energy, so that reactions occur faster. Acid strength does not change.

    i beleive it srengthens it slightly by heat as the water evaporates am i incorrect? which makes it slightly more acidic?

    i already knew the energy part simon, but when you heat vinegar for example, you get steam, which is water, and possibly other stuff but you get what im getting at, i amy be wrong, i am only asking.
    Yes, this is true. But unless you are boiling for long periods of time, this is no applicable in this scenario.
    "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." ~ Douglas Adams
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  33. #32  
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    Danacus-2, How about explaining what you are trying to do rather than asking how to make acid in your kitchen?
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  34. #33  
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    Quote Originally Posted by drowsy turtle
    Quote Originally Posted by danacus2
    Quote Originally Posted by drowsy turtle
    Just one point of order (hey, you did the same to me)

    Heating does not increase the strength of the acid. It increases the kinetic energy, so that reactions occur faster. Acid strength does not change.

    i beleive it srengthens it slightly by heat as the water evaporates am i incorrect? which makes it slightly more acidic?

    i already knew the energy part simon, but when you heat vinegar for example, you get steam, which is water, and possibly other stuff but you get what im getting at, i amy be wrong, i am only asking.
    Yes, this is true. But unless you are boiling for long periods of time, this is no applicable in this scenario.
    It takes only five minutes or less, to bring regular white vinegar about three cups full. To a strength, that makes it ten times more effective. In a medium sized pot, brought to a boil.

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  35. #34  
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    Look up the synthesis of LSD , its on the net. Have fun!
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  36. #35  
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    Quote Originally Posted by William McCormick
    Quote Originally Posted by fizzlooney
    BY the way William, steel drums have a BUNG hole and a BUNG plug, a bong is something you smoke weed from which may explain most of your answers.
    You are technically correct. However in the industry we say bong top. We do not say bung top.

    I do not take drugs. I have tasted just about every chemical and drug, known to mankind, but that is what chemists used to do.



    Sincerely,


    William McCormick


    .... I would sincerely love to see you taste Caesium or Francium, Or Bleach.. or Phenol. hell I'd even like to see you taste Ammonium Permanganate
    It's not how many questions you ask, but the answers you get - Booms

    This is the Acadamy of Science! we don't need to 'prove' anything!
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  37. #36 Nitric acid generation 
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    1. Make ozone (triatomic oxygen) by pumping air down a pipe witha bare wire with a current passing through it.

    2. Expose to steam and nitrogen rich air for reaction to take place.

    3. Condense the vapour you have and you will get pretty good nitric acid.

    This must be credited to the book "More electronic gadgets for evil geniuses" and if you want to hear more like this read the book.
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  38. #37  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Booms
    Quote Originally Posted by William McCormick
    Quote Originally Posted by fizzlooney
    BY the way William, steel drums have a BUNG hole and a BUNG plug, a bong is something you smoke weed from which may explain most of your answers.
    You are technically correct. However in the industry we say bong top. We do not say bung top.

    I do not take drugs. I have tasted just about every chemical and drug, known to mankind, but that is what chemists used to do.



    Sincerely,


    William McCormick


    .... I would sincerely love to see you taste Caesium or Francium, Or Bleach.. or Phenol. hell I'd even like to see you taste Ammonium Permanganate
    Civility please.
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  39. #38  
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    Booms, no more comments like that. Thank you.
    "There is a kind of lazy pleasure in useless and out-of-the-way erudition." -Jorge Luis Borges
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