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Thread: The Dog Business

  1. #1 The Dog Business 
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    Someone we know quit their $80K year job to breed a dog. The dog breed name escapes me at the moment but it was some kind of bulldog. Apparently this dogís puppies go between $4-5K per. Heard her first litter consisted of 11 and all sold so not a bad start. Hereís a list of the ten most expensive breeds:

    https://www.prudentpet.com/most-expensive-dog-breeds/

    People are taking out loans just to buy a mutt but I guess there must be a reason itís done. Whatís the cost of dog owning in dollars for a lifetime?


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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Someone we know quit their $80K year job to breed a dog. The dog breed name escapes me at the moment but it was some kind of bulldog. Apparently this dogís puppies go between $4-5K per. Heard her first litter consisted of 11 and all sold so not a bad start. Hereís a list of the ten most expensive breeds:

    https://www.prudentpet.com/most-expensive-dog-breeds/

    People are taking out loans just to buy a mutt but I guess there must be a reason itís done. Whatís the cost of dog owning in dollars for a lifetime?
    That list has some pretty costly mutts on it. Can't imagine paying so much for a dog. But there are tons of dog lovers out there. The cost of dog owning can depend somewhat on the breed. Those Rottweilers are costly long-term due to many health issues, as are a number of these expensive dogs. Probably due to inbreeding, which results in the appearance of recessive traits leading to numerous complications.

    Your acquaintance might be breeding French bulldogs, which sell for about $4-5,000 each, and there are a lot of them being stolen*. So that makes for a good market to get into. Stolen dogs which are never returned means buying more of them. Maybe some of those stealing them also breed them, enhancing the market. Doggone it!


    "French bulldog stolen in California recovered in Pennsylvania amid rise in thefts of the dog breed"

    * https://abcnews.go.com/US/french-bul...ry?id=82326904


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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Helix View Post

    That list has some pretty costly mutts on it. Can't imagine paying so much for a dog. But there are tons of dog lovers out there. The cost of dog owning can depend somewhat on the breed. Those Rottweilers are costly long-term due to many health issues, as are a number of these expensive dogs. Probably due to inbreeding, which results in the appearance of recessive traits leading to numerous complications.

    Your acquaintance might be breeding French bulldogs, which sell for about $4-5,000 each, and there are a lot of them being stolen*. So that makes for a good market to get into. Stolen dogs which are never returned means buying more of them. Maybe some of those stealing them also breed them, enhancing the market. Doggone it!


    "French bulldog stolen in California recovered in Pennsylvania amid rise in thefts of the dog breed"

    * https://abcnews.go.com/US/french-bul...ry?id=82326904
    Dogs are chattel. Stealing Rover like stealing a car. Wonder if you can get doggy life insurance. From Cornell Law:

    . chattel
    A catch-all category of property mostly associated with movable goods. At common law, chattel included all property that was not real estate and not attached to real estate. Examples included everything from leases, to cows, to clothes. In modern usage, chattel often merely refers to tangible movable personal property.
    Food and vet bills add up but then there are dog bite lawsuits, bylaw infringement fines, dog chewed furniture+, house damage(screens/ floors), insect repellents, grooming, obedience school, and even the costs of plastic bags for stowing picked up shit.

    Don’t get me wrong, I love the canines in the wild, especially those African Hunting Dogs. Mutts today don’t have a lot to do like their working ancestors, could be wrong. I appreciate the dogs who work for a living like drug sniffers and trackers but training must also be costly.
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  5. #4  
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Food and vet bills add up but then there are dog bite lawsuits, bylaw infringement fines, dog chewed furniture+, house damage(screens/ floors), insect repellents, grooming, obedience school, and even the costs of plastic bags for stowing picked up shit.
    And then there is pet cloning*.

    People are having Fido cloned so they can always have the "same" dog. Better be close since the cost is $50,000 (U.S.). Almost beyond imagination.


    "Pet cloning is getting more popular despite the cost"

    * https://www.bbc.com/news/business-60924936
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    Next they will clone owners with next to no imagination.
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    I like dogs well enough, but I could never justify paying that much money for one. Especially when there are so many great dogs in shelters waiting for adoption/execution. I'm a firm proponent of adopt don't shop when it comes to dogs and cats.

    Another thing that people routinely fail to consider is that the rescue mutt they pick up from the shelter is generally genetically better off than any of the ones you would pay thousands for.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falconer360 View Post
    Another thing that people routinely fail to consider is that the rescue mutt they pick up from the shelter is generally genetically better off than any of the ones you would pay thousands for.
    Dog breeding tantamount to animal cruelty in my books. As if we don’t do enough to make animal lives miserable.

    Against the law, people near us let their Pit Bull run unleashed. Bylaw officer showed up yesterday and wrote them up, fine pending. Didn’t know this but the mutt jumped a lady out walking her dog. Woman knocked over blowing her knee out trying to protect her dog before owner of Pit Bull could stop the action. Civil court next?
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Dog breeding tantamount to animal cruelty in my books. As if we don’t do enough to make animal lives miserable.
    I feel the same way. And even the science is leaning that way. Not sure if you saw this article on dog breeding, https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-61494094 "A new study suggests that pugs face such serious health conditions they can "no longer be considered a typical dog from a health perspective." And the problems definitely aren't only with Pugs, they just happen to be the worst off. It's sad that we've caused so much suffering in an animal that is considered our best friend just for vanity purposes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falconer360 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Dog breeding tantamount to animal cruelty in my books. As if we don’t do enough to make animal lives miserable.
    I feel the same way. And even the science is leaning that way. Not sure if you saw this article on dog breeding, https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-61494094 "A new study suggests that pugs face such serious health conditions they can "no longer be considered a typical dog from a health perspective." And the problems definitely aren't only with Pugs, they just happen to be the worst off. It's sad that we've caused so much suffering in an animal that is considered our best friend just for vanity purposes.

    Man o’ man what they’ve done to Pugs is down right cruel. Don’t know if you can even call it an animal anymore, like something from Dr Frankenstein’s lab. Assume the other breeds are close behind. So much money spent on what’s actually a flawed dog.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Man o’ man what they’ve done to Pugs is down right cruel. Don’t know if you can even call it an animal anymore, like something from Dr Frankenstein’s lab. Assume the other breeds are close behind. So much money spent on what’s actually a flawed dog.
    Right? It's sickening. And you're absolutely right about other breeds being close behind. Even German Shepherds are riddled with problems due to breeding. They pretty much all get hip elbow dysplasia, a host of digestive problems, and degenerative disc disease. So by the time your average German Shepherd is reaching middle age they're starting to suffer. And law enforcement agencies pay top dollar for them and to train them despite these problems.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falconer360 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Man o’ man what they’ve done to Pugs is down right cruel. Don’t know if you can even call it an animal anymore, like something from Dr Frankenstein’s lab. Assume the other breeds are close behind. So much money spent on what’s actually a flawed dog.
    Right? It's sickening. And you're absolutely right about other breeds being close behind. Even German Shepherds are riddled with problems due to breeding. They pretty much all get hip elbow dysplasia, a host of digestive problems, and degenerative disc disease. So by the time your average German Shepherd is reaching middle age they're starting to suffer. And law enforcement agencies pay top dollar for them and to train them despite these problems.
    Tell you something Falc, may not be a dog guy but feel I’m doing more for dog breeds by not owning one than someone who actually breeds, sells or buys mutts….aka the dog business. I will definitely use some of this info next time I get into a discussion with dog lovers. Maybe why I like those African Hunting Dogs, wild and free.
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    Pit Bull history

    https://www.aspca.org/about-us/aspca...ment-pit-bulls

    Why would pit bull ancestors need to grab hold of bulls’/bears’ heads?
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Tell you something Falc, may not be a dog guy but feel I’m doing more for dog breeds by not owning one than someone who actually breeds, sells or buys mutts….aka the dog business. I will definitely use some of this info next time I get into a discussion with dog lovers. Maybe why I like those African Hunting Dogs, wild and free.
    At this point I kind of feel the same way. Although if I worked less I would be open to adopting a dog from a shelter. At least that would help a dog in need and wouldn't help a breeder.
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    Amazes me how much dogs influence/control some people’s thinking. I guess it’s popular in Europe to take your dog to a restaurant but I’ve now learned about dogs allowed at golf courses over there. Only a matter of time and wouldn’t you know, I saw an advertisement in which a local golf club here in Canada is trying to entice dog owners to bring their pooches along. Apparently it’s becoming popular here too. I’m not a dog guy but seems to me that dogs rule and business knows this.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/more-...dogs-1.3180166

    Can you imagine Rory McIlroy at The Open asking for a ruling after his ball rolls up against a big dog turd.
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    Allowing dogs on golf courses just seems like a problematic idea. I don't mind more places becoming dog friendly but there are some that seem counterintuitive.
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    Having a tough time believing these numbers but article sounds like it’s a conservative amount. Average annual cost of owning a dog here in Ontario…..well let’s have a look.

    https://www.phidirect.com/blog/the-average-cost-of-owning-a-dog-in-canada#:~:text=Once%20you've%20purchased%20your,at %20around%20%243%2C724%20a%

    I doubt if that includes any damages caused by dogs such as chewed furniture, dog bite lawsuits, property destruction, etc. If so then I think the average cost is higher.

    Like having a kid. WTF? Imagine owning more than one.

    If you have a little porker for a pet then compare….

    https://petkeen.com/mini-pig-cost/
    Last edited by zinjanthropos; July 29th, 2022 at 02:08 PM.
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    I thought this number might be higher but in the UK ….

    https://www.propertyreporter.co.uk/a...ld-damage.html

    Still a shot in the arm for the economy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    I thought this number might be higher but in the UK Ö.

    https://www.propertyreporter.co.uk/a...ld-damage.html

    Still a shot in the arm for the economy.
    That is an amazing amount of damage from dogs. Never would have guessed it. Dogs appear to be great for the economy - a lot of repeat business for sellers of rugs, chairs, etc. Have heard about some other chew toys, like cell phones, remotes, and other electronic gadgets. But those dogs are so adorable........

    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Like having a kid. WTF? Imagine owning more than one.
    The issue of raising children is even more amazing, and troubling. One of the sad but inevitable laments that we hear from all over the world is how parents are struggling to raise their eight children (or 10, etc. - pick a number).

    The same holds for pets. And if pets are so destructive, what about children. Can you find an estimate about damage costs from children? They are likely significant also. One imagines it is the price one must pay for having pets, whether they are cats, dogs, etc, or children. Have seen many parents treat their kids just like they treat their dogs, etc. All are pets to be fawned over, and scolded when they destroy costly items.

    Live and learn (or not).
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  20. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    I thought this number might be higher but in the UK ….

    https://www.propertyreporter.co.uk/a...ld-damage.html

    Still a shot in the arm for the economy.
    Made me think of my sister and her two dogs. They were older dogs and generally very well behaved, so she let them stay inside the house most of the time when she was at work. Well one day, one of them accidentally got trapped in the the downstairs bathroom (must have pushed the door closed unintentionally). My sister came home to both dogs sleeping casually in the living room and a big hole chewed through the bathroom door and door frame.
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    Dogs are big business in some parts of the world. For their meat, that is. Hard to find the dollar value but it looks like could be in the hundreds of million$. North American articles tend to focus on humane treatment of dogs designated for the dinner plate.

    https://istreetdog.com/mission/dog-meat-trade/
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Dogs are big business in some parts of the world. For their meat, that is. Hard to find the dollar value but it looks like could be in the hundreds of million$. North American articles tend to focus on humane treatment of dogs designated for the dinner plate.

    https://istreetdog.com/mission/dog-meat-trade/
    Quoting from the link:

    "Over 16 million dogs are estimated to meet a cruel death to feed the dog meat trade." The value is certainly in the hundreds of million$, and likely well over a billion, and apparently growing.

    It has often been said that the dog is man's best friend. It seems that some might say that the dog is man's best meal.

    With the exception of seafood, it seems that most food animals are herbivores. But the primary shock value in this story is of course that dogs are pets for many people.

    There is quite a bit of information on this in the wiki link below (1). One wonders how many dogs are kept as pets in countries where they are eaten. If so, one suspects such owners keep a close watch on their pets so they do not end up on someone's plate. Also to ponder is what dogs make the best meals. In China, it appears to be purebreds. (2)

    As noted in some articles about eating dogs : Don't knock it unless you have tried it.


    1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_meat


    "Purebred Dogs Labelled “Meat Dogs” in China"

    * https://www.worlddogalliance.org/you...dogs-in-china/
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    Not dog meat but there’s another dog product that could be worth it’s weight in gold:

    https://www.ik9sb.com/Fees.asp

    Anyone from Oregon?
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Not dog meat but thereís another dog product that could be worth itís weight in gold:

    https://www.ik9sb.com/Fees.asp

    Anyone from Oregon?
    And then there is cloning*. Now we are talking some serious dough - $50,000 (£38,000) for a dog.

    Better be a damn good dog.


    "Pet cloning is getting more popular despite the cost"

    * https://www.bbc.com/news/business-60924936
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    Good article. $50G for what? Apparently an unhealthy mutt. Borderline cruelty in my mind but accepted by owners who don’t have the stomach for canine butchery but are quite content harming the breed.

    From genome.gov :

    What are the potential drawbacks of cloning animals?


    Reproductive cloning is a very inefficient technique and most cloned animal embryos cannot develop into healthy individuals. For instance, Dolly was the only clone to be born live out of a total of 277 cloned embryos. This very low efficiency, combined with safety concerns, presents a serious obstacle to the application of reproductive cloning.
    Researchers have observed some adverse health effects in sheep and other mammals that have been cloned. These include an increase in birth size and a variety of defects in vital organs, such as the liver, brain and heart. Other consequences include premature aging and problems with the immune system. Another potential problem centers on the relative age of the cloned cell's chromosomes. As cells go through their normal rounds of division, the tips of the chromosomes, called telomeres, shrink. Over time, the telomeres become so short that the cell can no longer divide and, consequently, the cell dies. This is part of the natural aging process that seems to happen in all cell types. As a consequence, clones created from a cell taken from an adult might have chromosomes that are already shorter than normal, which may condemn the clones' cells to a shorter life span. Indeed, Dolly, who was cloned from the cell of a 6-year-old sheep, had chromosomes that were shorter than those of other sheep her age. Dolly died when she was six years old, about half the average sheep's 12-year lifespan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Good article. $50G for what? Apparently an unhealthy mutt. Borderline cruelty in my mind but accepted by owners who don’t have the stomach for canine butchery but are quite content harming the breed.

    From genome.gov :

    What are the potential drawbacks of cloning animals?


    Reproductive cloning is a very inefficient technique and most cloned animal embryos cannot develop into healthy individuals. For instance, Dolly was the only clone to be born live out of a total of 277 cloned embryos. This very low efficiency, combined with safety concerns, presents a serious obstacle to the application of reproductive cloning.
    Researchers have observed some adverse health effects in sheep and other mammals that have been cloned. These include an increase in birth size and a variety of defects in vital organs, such as the liver, brain and heart. Other consequences include premature aging and problems with the immune system. Another potential problem centers on the relative age of the cloned cell's chromosomes. As cells go through their normal rounds of division, the tips of the chromosomes, called telomeres, shrink. Over time, the telomeres become so short that the cell can no longer divide and, consequently, the cell dies. This is part of the natural aging process that seems to happen in all cell types. As a consequence, clones created from a cell taken from an adult might have chromosomes that are already shorter than normal, which may condemn the clones' cells to a shorter life span. Indeed, Dolly, who was cloned from the cell of a 6-year-old sheep, had chromosomes that were shorter than those of other sheep her age. Dolly died when she was six years old, about half the average sheep's 12-year lifespan.

    Great find on the problems of cloning. Many in the biz have known about these issues for a long time but do not talk about them much to avoid the negative aspects.

    All this clearly indicates the pitfalls of cloning in general, but also puts constraints on what can even be cloned. Some are trying to "clone" woolly mammoth from arctic remains, believing they will get viable nuclei, or failing that somehow extract DNA sequences and stitch them together with elephant DNA and regain most of the animal. Highly unlikely is an understatement.

    If one is going to end up cloning a pet, or any animal or human, it is best to get young nuclei when they are just growing up, and store them in liquid nitrogen for future use. That would eliminate a lot of the problems seen in current applications. And there are issues about the methodology, which is clearly not optimal.
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    From high level cloning, let’s drop to a literally ground level component of the dog business…taking care of the unpleasant end of canine ownership. Mark Twain referred to golf as a good walk spoilt so I can’t see the doodooing anything less than that

    https://www.factmr.com/report/dog-poop-bags-market

    Not sure what other cultures practice this art. I know there are a couple folks in my neighborhood who tend to turn a blind eye and avoid the nastiness.

    Don’t have time right now to check it out but I’m sure the product has a carbon footprint.
    Last edited by zinjanthropos; August 19th, 2022 at 10:25 AM.
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    Just adding to previous post this little blurb. Brits have it figured out. DNA collected from your mutt’s poop is going to come back to bite you. Plus the fact doggy doo is worth something to somebody.

    https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article...-your-pets-poo
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    Considering options when the pooch dies? Burial, cremation and even taxidermy mentioned here…

    https://www.k9ofmine.com/dog-cremation-cost/

    In the wild a corpse would feed other creatures. That luxury almost absent with domesticated animals. Not so for me when kids were young and they wanted pets. My old backyard has 3 hamsters, a rabbit and two cats buried in it.
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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  30. #29  
    Forum Ph.D. Double Helix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Considering options when the pooch dies? Burial, cremation and even taxidermy mentioned here…

    https://www.k9ofmine.com/dog-cremation-cost/

    In the wild a corpse would feed other creatures. That luxury almost absent with domesticated animals. Not so for me when kids were young and they wanted pets. My old backyard has 3 hamsters, a rabbit and two cats buried in it.
    Imagine spending a thousand on burying an animal. Most urban areas do not allow backyard burials. Pet cemetaries charge a lot just for a few square feet of ground, and caskets can run from a few hundred to thousands. If one is really consumed by the process, it could cost more to bury the remains than the animal cost to begin with. And the cost varies depending on size of the animal.

    Some have even eaten their pets after they died*. It seems to be rare, but may be increasing as food is becoming more scarce. There are reports from Venezuela that people are eating pets and even raid zoos to find edibles. Anybody with a pet that looks tasty had best be careful else their pride and joy ends up in a stew.


    "Having Your Dog and Eating It Too?"

    * https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...-eating-it-too
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Helix View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Considering options when the pooch dies? Burial, cremation and even taxidermy mentioned here…

    https://www.k9ofmine.com/dog-cremation-cost/

    In the wild a corpse would feed other creatures. That luxury almost absent with domesticated animals. Not so for me when kids were young and they wanted pets. My old backyard has 3 hamsters, a rabbit and two cats buried in it.
    Imagine spending a thousand on burying an animal. Most urban areas do not allow backyard burials. Pet cemetaries charge a lot just for a few square feet of ground, and caskets can run from a few hundred to thousands. If one is really consumed by the process, it could cost more to bury the remains than the animal cost to begin with. And the cost varies depending on size of the animal.

    Some have even eaten their pets after they died*. It seems to be rare, but may be increasing as food is becoming more scarce. There are reports from Venezuela that people are eating pets and even raid zoos to find edibles. Anybody with a pet that looks tasty had best be careful else their pride and joy ends up in a stew.
    Reminds me of a time living in Vancouver when neighborhood dogs & cats were disappearing. Eventually the culprit was found when a next door neighbor found a pile of bones that had been thrown onto their side of a fence. Turned out the bad guy was from a culture where eating dogs & cats was quite normal. I guess keeping the evidence was not.

    When you think of how all that money spent on dogs/pets could benefit a family, it’s a bloody shame, but I imagine the psychology of dog owning supercedes anything financial.
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Reminds me of a time living in Vancouver when neighborhood dogs & cats were disappearing. Eventually the culprit was found when a next door neighbor found a pile of bones that had been thrown onto their side of a fence. Turned out the bad guy was from a culture where eating dogs & cats was quite normal.
    While not coming close to the millions of dogs eaten every year, some dogs do get revenge on their human tormentors and consumers. In the U.S. alone there are over 4 million dog bites every year*. Of those, 800,000 require medical care, and about 50 do not survive.

    If these numbers are extended to the rest of the world, which did not show up in a search, the numbers must be 10x higher, and probably more bites in places where dogs are being eaten, or one might think. Some of those dogs are not going down without a fight.

    So a reasonable estimate amounts to 40 million dog bites of humans per year worldwide, with 8 million requiring medical care, and another 500 or so not surviving. And of course some dogs do eat people, but that is very uncommon. The canines are clearly on the losing end of the score.


    "Dog Bite Statistics (How Likely Are You To Get Bit?)"

    * https://www.caninejournal.com/dog-bite-statistics/
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    Wonder how many don’t report dog attack. When I worked in the gas industry field, particularly on homeowner property, I always carried a big enough pipe wrench in hand in case Rover came at me out of nowhere. I was too slow a couple of times, ended up being treated.

    Here we are covered by Ontario Health Insurance Program (OHIP) and I thought I’d check and see if you survived a dog attack requiring medical attention, whether or not mutt owner would eventually be on the hook for those expenses. Apparently yes in this province. There’s a mention of it in this article. Last people I’d want to deal with.

    https://otlablog.com/dog-bite-attack...s,1990%2C%20c.

    I wonder if people take into account the cost of pet ownership. Why not a virtual pet? Or do they already have that option? I’m talking about a virtual pet that no one else has, with its own personality and traits, right down to the point where the v-pet inherits canine disease, gets hit by a car or generally causes mischief under human tutelage, etc. How many v-pet cat owners would name the thing Schrodinger.
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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    Time Lord zinjanthropos's Avatar
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    Let’s not forget the criminal element. From what I’ve been reading this article only scratches the surface…it’s big bucks

    https://www.arachnys.com/the-increas...g-trafficking/
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