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Thread: The Pandora Papers : What does it all mean, and what will be the results of these disclosures?!

  1. #1 The Pandora Papers : What does it all mean, and what will be the results of these disclosures?! 
    Forum Junior Double Helix's Avatar
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    Most of us have read or heard of the "Pandora Papers" (1). They represent an enormous leak of data regarding some of the wealthy and powerful people of the world who are apparently skirting tax liabilities and other issues for personal gain and increasing power. They were using "offshore banks" and other means in an attempt to avoid detection.

    Some of the biggest names are (or were) the leaders of nations, such as Russia's Vladimir Putin, former British Prime Minister Tony Blair and King Abdullah of Jordan, to name a few. They were apparently involved in shielding their financial transactions from public scrutiny, or so they thought. Celebrities so far include Elton John, Ringo Starr, Shakira and Julio Iglesias, just for starters (2).

    Where will all this end up? Can the International Court of Justice at the Hague get involved in such financial activities? Some of these people may not even be involved in any real crimes, since it may depend on where an individual lives, and what the laws of their home countries are regarding such "transactions". Some aspects of these transactions may play a significant role in shaking up the world order, or damaging the global economy. It would appear to be quite a tangled web.

    And what else remains hidden from view?!

    It all looks like a legal morass beyond comprehension. Does anyone have any idea where all this information might lead, and the global consequences of all these financial shenanigans?!


    "Pandora Papers: A simple guide to the Pandora Papers leak"

    1. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-58780561


    "Elton John, Shakira Named in Pandora Papers as U.K. and Australia Call for Review of Leaked Tax Shelter Documents"

    2 https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/bu...ax-1235024840/


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  3. #2  
    exchemist
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Helix View Post
    Most of us have read or heard of the "Pandora Papers" (1). They represent an enormous leak of data regarding some of the wealthy and powerful people of the world who are apparently skirting tax liabilities and other issues for personal gain and increasing power. They were using "offshore banks" and other means in an attempt to avoid detection.

    Some of the biggest names are (or were) the leaders of nations, such as Russia's Vladimir Putin, former British Prime Minister Tony Blair and King Abdullah of Jordan, to name a few. They were apparently involved in shielding their financial transactions from public scrutiny, or so they thought. Celebrities so far include Elton John, Ringo Starr, Shakira and Julio Iglesias, just for starters (2).

    Where will all this end up? Can the International Court of Justice at the Hague get involved in such financial activities? Some of these people may not even be involved in any real crimes, since it may depend on where an individual lives, and what the laws of their home countries are regarding such "transactions". Some aspects of these transactions may play a significant role in shaking up the world order, or damaging the global economy. It would appear to be quite a tangled web.

    And what else remains hidden from view?!

    It all looks like a legal morass beyond comprehension. Does anyone have any idea where all this information might lead, and the global consequences of all these financial shenanigans?!


    "Pandora Papers: A simple guide to the Pandora Papers leak"

    1. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-58780561


    "Elton John, Shakira Named in Pandora Papers as U.K. and Australia Call for Review of Leaked Tax Shelter Documents"

    2 https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/bu...ax-1235024840/
    It seems to me this is a journalistic damp squib, which is being hyped by the BBC and Guardian, who devoted considerable time to the exercise and therefore need to portray it as significant. No criminal behaviour seems to have been uncovered, nor have we learned anything we did not already know or suspect. OK, so lots of shady oligarchs and billionaires have "secretly" (as opposed to taking out full page ads?) invested in the London property market. No shit? And so on.

    No other media besides the Guardian and BBC have carried ANY stories derived from this investigation, so far as I can see. It looks like a re-run of the "Panama Papers" non-event, which started with similar hype but in the end all we learned was that David Cameron's father had been a stockbroker (!!) and that some obscure Icelandic politician had had his hand in the till.


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    Time Lord zinjanthropos's Avatar
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    I think offshore accounts are only illegal if they’re used to avoid paying taxes. Not sure about money laundering.

    When they say ‘offshore’ do they really mean Switzerland?
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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    Forum Radioactive Isotope
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    If you are a public figure any impression of impropriety with avoiding tax can be harmful.


    Jimmy Carr is an English stand up comedian who hosts programmes on tv and had to endure public humiliation from his peers when it was revealed he had legally avoided paying his taxes.


    He managed to save his career but was lucky imo.

    Of course ,in the rotten state of US politics it can be brazened off as a badge of honour in some extensive quarters.
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  6. #5  
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    When they say ‘offshore’ do they really mean Switzerland?
    Only #5 in this list: https://www.accountancydaily.co/brit...havens-ranking

    Earlier this year I talked at some length to a lawyer who had worked in the BVI.
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    Time Lord zinjanthropos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    When they say ‘offshore’ do they really mean Switzerland?
    Only #5 in this list: https://www.accountancydaily.co/brit...havens-ranking

    Earlier this year I talked at some length to a lawyer who had worked in the BVI.
    Not sure what that says about countries with ties to Britain?

    By the way ox, were you making a deposit or withdrawal? How many billions does one person need?

    I wonder if the depositors are generally philanthropic, or masquerading as such by at least helping some folks who need it? But if you have to hide revenue you're probably thinking you're paying or contributing more than a fair share.

    Politicians I can understand. Power & greed, gotta have it.
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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    ox
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Not sure what that says about countries with ties to Britain?
    The rich don't stay rich in the UK's high tax economy if they don't shift their assets.
    Richard Branson and Neckar Island comes to mind.

    By the way ox, were you making a deposit or withdrawal? How many billions does one person need?
    I'm considering shifting all my assets (little they are) to the BVI, but I'll still live in the UK because I like the football, cricket and golf.

    I wonder if the depositors are generally philanthropic, or masquerading as such by at least helping some folks who need it? But if you have to hide revenue you're probably thinking you're paying or contributing more than a fair share.
    They take poor folks out for free cruises on their 100 million yachts.

    Politicians I can understand. Power & greed, gotta have it.
    Wouldn't hear one word said against politicians. I'd hear two.
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    Time Lord zinjanthropos's Avatar
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    I think the wealthy pay taxes through the number of employees their businesses generate. No jobs equals even less tax revenue for a country. American billionaires…..maybe a list most people pay little attention to:https://www.forbes.com/sites/kerenbl...h=17dcd28a693f

    I’m sure Britain’s wealthiest folks are providing jobs and much needed tax base to help run govt. Still, seems people like to rag on them. When you’re filthy rich it might be best to stay out of sight and not flaunt it like yacht rides. It seems all connected, the rich need you to work and you need them for jobs, govt needs both.
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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    Forum Junior Double Helix's Avatar
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    One would think that with all the inequities in the world, some governments would try to minimize all the tax dollars lost to "offshore" banking, etc. These investigations by the press are often the only way to discover such things. The tax dodges alone are estimated to be worth 100s of billions in lost taxes every year, and to many countries already running massive deficits There are many negative consequences associated with this lost revenue.

    Many of the companies and people who use these devices to dodge taxes seem very patriotic. They often fly large versions of their nation's flag on towering poles to show their great patriotism while they are dodging the very taxes that would provide their country with more stable fiscal conditions. Perhaps they should be taxed based on the size and height of the flag and pole that they use to express that great patriotism. If they did tax them, the poles and flags would get smaller, or simply disappear. You might find a flag sticker on the front door when you walk in.

    One thing is certain: The only people who benefit from dodging taxes are the people who need it the least. It seems to be a long-running scheme for which there is little action used to remedy, probably because many of the politicians who might regulate it are in on the haul.

    One of the biggest concerns in all this is the money laundering by criminals, or those who are not yet known to be criminals but would be if their laundering were to be discovered. It seems that great harm could come to many countries when criminals are in control of much of their financial dealings. Doubtless this has actually been going on in many countries for a long time, and could very well be the source of some of the world's tensions and troubles. Power and wealth can often result in nasty consequences for many of those who fall under its often malevolent activities.
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