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Thread: Is it Really Worth it?

  1. #1 Is it Really Worth it? 
    Forum Radioactive Isotope zinjanthropos's Avatar
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    A young lady lost her job today. Called in to the manager's office and then unceremoniously escorted to the front door. She had been with our company for two years and was IMHO, the friendliest person I'd ever met. What I found out was that she was heavy into the social media, belonging to everything from Twitter to Facebook. Apparently on one of them she had lambasted her supervisor and the company in not too charming a manner. To top it off, she also used company computers to satiate her, should I say, addiction.

    So what do you think? Was the company justified, did they have reasonable grounds for dismissal? I've heard where individuals with similar circumstances have managed to get their jobs back and that laws protecting employees differ from country to country, state to state, province to province. Regardless, should you have the right to disparage a fellow employee or your employer on social media without suffering the consequences? Should companies respect the right of free speech and take no action? Would a public apology be considered sufficient for rehiring a person let go for insulting or berating a fellow employee on a worldwide website?


    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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    Northern Horse Whisperer Moderator scheherazade's Avatar
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    Just going on what you have shared, it would appear that she was both unprofessional and indiscreet. Apparently also wasting her employers time and using their resources to do so.

    Many companies have quite strict policies in regard to the use of their computers because of privacy and security concerns. Simply for that breach, the company would be within their rights to dismiss her. As far as vocalizing her dissatisfaction with her employers over public media, there is a line between free speech and libel. Depending on what she said and how she said it, leaving the employ of your company may have been the more lenient option. I am aware of circumstances where employees are sometimes given the choice between accepting dismissal or facing charges when their actions warrant it. It's one thing to run off at the mouth at a social among friends. Quite another to post your remarks for all of the world to see.

    If she's the friendly person you claim her to be, she should have little difficulty in charming her way into some other employment.


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  4. #3  
    Forum Junior TridentBlue's Avatar
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    Most people will gripe about their bosses in their living room sometimes. She probably wouldn't sent a letter to the paper saying whatever she said, but that's the problem with social media, its really that space in between, people treat it as hanging out with friends but its all being published.
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  5. #4  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope zinjanthropos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    Just going on what you have shared, it would appear that she was both unprofessional and indiscreet. Apparently also wasting her employers time and using their resources to do so.

    Many companies have quite strict policies in regard to the use of their computers because of privacy and security concerns. Simply for that breach, the company would be within their rights to dismiss her. As far as vocalizing her dissatisfaction with her employers over public media, there is a line between free speech and libel. Depending on what she said and how she said it, leaving the employ of your company may have been the more lenient option. I am aware of circumstances where employees are sometimes given the choice between accepting dismissal or facing charges when their actions warrant it. It's one thing to run off at the mouth at a social among friends. Quite another to post your remarks for all of the world to see.

    If she's the friendly person you claim her to be, she should have little difficulty in charming her way into some other employment.
    A friendly facade....to me that would be a tough thing to maintain. Maybe she took acting lessons, had us all fooled. I guess nowadays you don't have to run your mouth off to prove yourself a fool, just start typing.
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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  6. #5  
    Forum Professor jrmonroe's Avatar
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    A hard lesson to learn that one does not have the right to work for a particular company ... or any company.
    Hopefully she can soon find another job in this economy.

    Perhaps a young person just out of school thinks that publicly blasting the boss is the same as publicly blasting a teacher. It is not! And the person is no longer a child, but an adult.
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    Grief is the price we pay for love. (CM Parkes) Our postillion has been struck by lightning. (Unknown) War is always the choice of the chosen who will not have to fight. (Bono) The years tell much what the days never knew. (RW Emerson) Reality is not always probable, or likely. (JL Borges)
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  7. #6  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    You mention that she was very friendly. You say nothing about her competence. Perhaps her performance was already under scrutiny and this indiscretion on her part provided a more convenient means of dismissing her. You are not in possession of all the facts. (Equally, you say you learned she was "heavily into social media". That's hearsay and could be a cover generated by management.)

    However, let's go with the scenario at face value. If she had been my employee I would have handled it differently.

    Bring her into my office with an HR representative on hand and make her aware that we are fully aware of her actions. Then initiate a discussion along these lines:

    "Miss A, I have two problems with this. Firstly, you are seemingly spending a significant portion of each day on social media rather than doing the job we pay you to do. This is unacceptable. Secondly, you have made it clear that you have major objections to the way I manage the team and have serious reservations about the overall approach of the company.

    This meeting is about how we can resolve these issues which are disruptive for the company and unsettling for yourself.

    In regard to the misuse of company time, that has to stop. However, I, and the HR department, am ready to work with you to provide reasonable support to help you overcome this. In a moment I'd like to get your input on how we could do this.

    I confess I'm disappointed you didn't feel able to approach me with concerns over my management decisions. Later in this session I'd like us to explore each of the issues and begin the process of resolving them.

    We have invested time and resources in you; you have invested time and resources in the company. It would be in the interests of both that we resolve these matters amicably. Over to you...."
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  8. #7  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    I had a alcoholic that was working for me. a very jovial person and cracked jokes that made me laugh. One day he was at a bar In my truck so I thought I'd stop by to see why he was there. He was drinking on the job. I just asked for the keys to my truck and fired him on the spot. I think that any employer should be able to fire anyone that doesn't do the right thing at work.
    When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace.
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  9. #8  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard icewendigo's Avatar
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    Not knowing all the details about this specific lady's case I will make a generic comment, I often look at situations from the perspective of hierarchy, money and secrecy, 3 archaic control mechanisms that belong in the feudal middle ages imo. (note carrying a shield belongs to the middle ages, but if people are waving swords around you may feel the need to carry a shield, so the point is not simply to remove shields but to remove the need to resort to hierarchy, money and secrecy)

    In a medieval age feudal hierarchy, are peasants free to speak their minds? Not really. If they want to avoid consequences imposed by the hierarchy, they must keep their views (that differ from the hiearchy's views) a secret as they find themselves in a form of conflict of interest which makes it unwise to be honest. If they could flee the medieval barony they happened to be in and go to another feudal hierarchy, which could be impractical/uncertain/etc to do, odds are they would end up being in a similar situation anyway (with respect to the hierarchy). In addition, they are dependant on a form of organization for potentially improved conditions, its just that the prevalent form of organization in that time is one that is old and repressive: hierarchy.

    So, the lady works for a corporate hierarchy, the same way feudal peasants and Mafia crews or Nazi solders are in a hierarchy (with all the corporatisms, conflicts of interests, conflict of interests with the good of society and ecosystems, secrecy, potential abuse of freedom, integrity, health that go with it) , and in the current archaic monetary system, she is not in an open transparent democratic voluntary organisation in a post-monetary 23rd century. The best way to handle the situation is probably along the lines mentioned by John Galt (kudos btw).

    It is unprofessional for a Nazi soldier not to obey orders with efficiency and not to raise his arm with pride. Its also unprofessional for that lady to have criticisms or other such thought crimes on her personal page because technology allows members of the hierarchy to examine it, because spending time scrutinizing the subordinates comments and pages is time well spent (its good for East German Stasi) along with any views about politics, etc she may have the audacity to share. So she's both unwise(nice way of putting it) and unprofessional.

    Its a similar situation (specifically from a hierarchy secrecy money perspective) when employees of more than one Canadian agencies (hierarchy) behaved with the utmost professionalism by keeping a hierarchy information secret and by their inaction cause several children to die of cancer, yes these children are dead and their parents will never see their children grow up, but at least the people that knew about it kept their jobs, they probably got good rewards from the "public" hierarchy (allegedly working for the public), but if they had saved the lives of the children with an act of transparent honesty and basic human decency it would have meant retribution from the hierarchy and probable lost of job and potential monetary deprivation. On the other hand, other subordinates of public hierarchies (which could have been corporations or any other hierarchy) did do the right thing for public safety and health and got fired and flailed by all the means at the disposal of the hierarchy for doing something the overwhelming quasi-totality of the population would have approved in a referendum/poll/vote/consultation but that the hierarchy (supposedly working for the people) opposed and wanted to keep "Secret" (a "public" "organisation"[meaning hierarchy] with "secrets" to keep from the "public", isnt that nice).
    Last edited by icewendigo; February 19th, 2014 at 01:49 PM.
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  10. #9  
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    I think it is not worth it specially that woman do a good job even she's not following the rules.In Helsinki many of my co workmate now in an risk management team at http://www.safehouse.fi/ do what they want as long as they will give their best in their job and those kind of stuff in normal in our company.
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  11. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    What I found out was that she was heavy into the social media, belonging to everything from Twitter to Facebook. Apparently on one of them she had lambasted her supervisor and the company in not too charming a manner. To top it off, she also used company computers to satiate her, should I say, addiction.
    This is what caught my attention, and I am surprised that it hasn't given rise to more comment. I am not involved with either Facebook or Twitter so I know little about what goes on there. But I have been astonished by the number of people who have wrecked their careers by making inappropriate comments on those sites. This doesn't seem to have much to do with free speech - it seems to have more to do with a hunger for gratification from other site users. Perhaps I am an oddball, but I see social media sites as the curse of the 21st century.
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  12. #11  
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    To top it off, she also used company computers to satiate her, should I say, addiction.


    And therefore screwed herself of any chance to win a civil court fight.
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