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Thread: investing on solar park

  1. #1 investing on solar park 
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    A desert region , where temp of 35 % to 40 % is guaranteed.
    Land per hectare can be purchased for very less value.

    In these region establishing solar park around at least 10 hectare can can bring huge power station establishment income.

    these powers can be much used for small scale industries in near by areas or for locomotive train transportation purpose.

    These will be just one time investment.Income keeps coming in for ever.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The same power can be used to draw water to less burden area and make green resource full .
    There are trees and plants which consumes less water (no thorns too). later these vegetation will help to establish
    poultry form . 10 eggs = 1/2 dollar : 1 chicken (40-45 days) = 1.5 dollars.

    incubation is for 3 weeks .

    power resource is free .

    one acre land 6000 chickens can be raised.
    so even if 5000 survived , 5000* 1.5 = 7500 $ ,
    out of 7,500 $ last take will be surely around 5000 for just one acre!
    instead of incubation , straightaway poultry for new born chickens 2 weeks old will be further good idea.
    2 week old chicken = 0.3 $ , 30 day food consumption is very less in term of chickens compared to others.
    30 days food and others charges / chicken = 0.4 $
    0.3 + 0.4

    1.5 $ - 0.7 $ =0.8 $ /chicken

    1 acre = 5000 chickens = 4000$
    in one month !


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    Yes it certainly seems solar farms are becoming more popular, I believe there is at least one planned for my own county, BBC News - Branston solar farm 'could power 8,000 homes', all of a sudden they seem to have overtaken wind farms as being the 'in vogue' form of renewable energy generation.

    As a clean form of energy I can't fault them, however I can see many new such proposals falling by the wayside with planners facing protests and 'NIMBY'ism once again taking over, it seems small town and village based solar farms are about as popular locally as the wind turbines have been, which is certainly to say 'not' very as now many of the new turbine applications are increasingly being made for offshore locations.

    Certainly though when you consider some of the vast sums required to provide, maintain and then decommission nuclear power stations and the safety concerns involved then the prospect of a new generation of solar farms seems appealing. I just wonder how long before we start to take the concept further and make a requirement for each new property to be fitted with it's own solar panels before being issued a building certificate.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Yes it certainly seems solar farms are becoming more popular, I believe there is at least one planned for my own county, BBC News - Branston solar farm 'could power 8,000 homes',
    8000 homes might sound like a lot, but it's only 30-40 megawatts (compared to 1000 megawatts of a large nuclear or fossil plant) and only generates this much for a few hours of a sunny day.

    all of a sudden they seem to have overtaken wind farms as being the 'in vogue' form of renewable energy generation.

    As a clean form of energy I can't fault them,
    I can. They only generate power during the daytime, and a sunny day at that.
    however I can see many new such proposals falling by the wayside with planners facing protests and 'NIMBY'ism once again taking over, it seems small town and village based solar farms are about as popular locally as the wind turbines have been, which is certainly to say 'not' very as now many of the new turbine applications are increasingly being made for offshore locations.

    Certainly though when you consider some of the vast sums required to provide, maintain and then decommission nuclear power stations and the safety concerns involved then the prospect of a new generation of solar farms seems appealing. I just wonder how long before we start to take the concept further and make a requirement for each new property to be fitted with it's own solar panels before being issued a building certificate.
    Well you will have to build the solar farm, and the nuclear plant too. The nuclear plant will be for the power you rely on, the solar plant will be to satisfy your vanity.
    Last edited by Harold14370; October 21st, 2013 at 05:14 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Yes it certainly seems solar farms are becoming more popular, I believe there is at least one planned for my own county, BBC News - Branston solar farm 'could power 8,000 homes',
    8000 homes might sound like a lot, but it's only 30-40 megawatts (compared to 1000 megawatts of a large nuclear or fossil plant) and only generates this much for a few hours of a sunny day.
    Yeah. I hate when solar advocates overplay their hand like that, by citing the most impressive sounding version of a statistic they should be admitting to instead.

    It's bad form, and it makes people less willing to trust any other assertions they hear from the same source, even if those other assertions are not deceptive.


    all of a sudden they seem to have overtaken wind farms as being the 'in vogue' form of renewable energy generation.

    As a clean form of energy I can't fault them,
    I can. They only generate power during the daytime, and a sunny day at that.
    That's fine for a place where air conditioning is the primary draw on the power supply. It should usually coincide.

    Also for some applications, like pumping water to a region that is short on water, it's fine, because there's really no need to match production to anyone's fickle usage requirements. The pumps can run while it's sunny, and then shut off when it's dark or overcast, and nobody will notice (presuming that the pumps are sending water to a reservoir somewhere.)

    however I can see many new such proposals falling by the wayside with planners facing protests and 'NIMBY'ism once again taking over, it seems small town and village based solar farms are about as popular locally as the wind turbines have been, which is certainly to say 'not' very as now many of the new turbine applications are increasingly being made for offshore locations.

    Certainly though when you consider some of the vast sums required to provide, maintain and then decommission nuclear power stations and the safety concerns involved then the prospect of a new generation of solar farms seems appealing. I just wonder how long before we start to take the concept further and make a requirement for each new property to be fitted with it's own solar panels before being issued a building certificate.
    Well you will have to build the solar farm, and the nuclear plant too. The nuclear plant will be for the power you rely on, the solar plant will be to satisfy your vanity.
    We might just have to get used to the idea that electric power is going to get more expensive, and we're going to start needing double the infrastructure from now on.

    The purpose to use solar/wind isn't to bring down the price of electricity. It's to reduce reliance on power sources that put us at the mercy of a foreign power, or put us in an awkward position for disposal. The USA has enough natural gas to meet it's own needs *right now*. That won't be true forever. For nuclear, we need to come up with a place to store all that waste that is permanent. We can't just keep letting it pile up at the plants.

    Basically, solar/wind are the only long term options that don't lead to trouble down the road, even if they'll still need a baseload.
    Some clocks are only right twice a day, but they are still right when they are right.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Well you will have to build the solar farm, and the nuclear plant too. The nuclear plant will be for the power you rely on, the solar plant will be to satisfy your vanity.
    Well at the moment that's correct, unfortunately, we need the nuclear plants as well. The sad reality is that the UK is facing a potential energy crisis over the next few decades without major investment nuclear as well as renewable sources of energy generation. Our government has just signed a contract with a French energy company to build the first in what could be a new line of nuclear power stations, I have some reservations about the funding, as most of it appears to be coming from China, but in terms of safety it doesn't really concern me.

    I would pretty much imagine that rich developed countries such as the UK and US are able to provide new nuclear powerstations that are safe and efficient, however my concern is the example in sets to other countries around the world who are perhaps less able to meet the financial and technical requirements to build new plants of the highest safety standards. This is where I do feel we have an opportunity to start and prove the effectiveness and cost efficiency of renewable energy sources to show other countries around the world that they don't have to be dependant on nuclear, after all I'm there are more than a few nations out there that many of us would rather perhaps didn't have access to nuclear technology.

    But just putting the nuclear issue aside for the moment, I do think that solar power has a potential to be very useful alongside wind and wave power. As you pointed out solar panels do indeed require sunshine, but most countries do experience at least some sunshine and the more solar farms set up around the world then the better the technology will become, also hopefully this wil help enable costs to start coming down.

    Personally, as I began to touch on above, I like to see more self reliance when comes to energy, more private energy generation and that can currently mean either small wind turbines and or solar panels. Again here we need to perfect the technology, certainly making it cheaper and more efficient and the more demand the better for helping to acheive this objective.

    But getting away from the reliance on centralized private energy generation and companies has to only be a good thing, as they have a monopoly and can put prices up at will which effects the cost of living for all of us and the ability of companies to produce cost effective products.

    Are solar farms the solution to all our energy requirements? Probarbly not, but they are a useful step along the way and part of the program of current forms of renewable energy, the more of them that are built then the less reliance we will all need to have on nuclear or fossils fuels, which again can only be a good thing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Well you will have to build the solar farm, and the nuclear plant too. The nuclear plant will be for the power you rely on, the solar plant will be to satisfy your vanity.
    I have a solar power system on my house which generates all my power. I also live about 20 miles from a nuclear reactor. Over the past 5 years the solar power system has been far more reliable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Well you will have to build the solar farm, and the nuclear plant too. The nuclear plant will be for the power you rely on, the solar plant will be to satisfy your vanity.
    I have a solar power system on my house which generates all my power. I also live about 20 miles from a nuclear reactor. Over the past 5 years the solar power system has been far more reliable.
    Great that you've got your own solar system, I think every house should have one. But an unreliable nuclear plant really? certainly seems rather disturbing when you consider how potentially dangerous they could be if they go wrong.
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    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Well you will have to build the solar farm, and the nuclear plant too. The nuclear plant will be for the power you rely on, the solar plant will be to satisfy your vanity.
    I have a solar power system on my house which generates all my power. I also live about 20 miles from a nuclear reactor. Over the past 5 years the solar power system has been far more reliable.
    Do you have a grid connected system? If so, you might be generating an equal amount of power, but I doubt you are generating all your power. If you have a battery backed system, it is either a very expensive system, or you don't use much electricity.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Do you have a grid connected system? If so, you might be generating an equal amount of power, but I doubt you are generating all your power. If you have a battery backed system, it is either a very expensive system, or you don't use much electricity.
    I have a grid connected system with battery backup.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Great that you've got your own solar system, I think every house should have one. But an unreliable nuclear plant really? certainly seems rather disturbing when you consider how potentially dangerous they could be if they go wrong.
    Tell me about it. They shut down almost two years ago due to leaks in the heat exchangers - and haven't restarted since.
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    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Do you have a grid connected system? If so, you might be generating an equal amount of power, but I doubt you are generating all your power. If you have a battery backed system, it is either a very expensive system, or you don't use much electricity.
    I have a grid connected system with battery backup.
    Do you ever take power from the grid?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Do you ever take power from the grid?
    Sure, all the time. I time my EV to charge between midnight and 6am, for example.
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    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Do you ever take power from the grid?
    Sure, all the time. I time my EV to charge between midnight and 6am, for example.
    You've made my point then. You have your feel-good solar power system, then you have the grid (nuclear or fossil) for the power you can rely on. Why did you say you generate all your power?
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    We went totally solar in this house almost 3 years ago. My last power bill was 10.70 worse scenario was 178.00 compared to 800/month...I'll take it. Wish we could do it Mainland, but it wouldn't be worth it. Not enough hot...or sun
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    We went totally solar in this house almost 3 years ago. My last power bill was 10.70 worse scenario was 178.00 compared to 800/month...I'll take it. Wish we could do it Mainland, but it wouldn't be worth it. Not enough hot...or sun
    What does totally solar mean?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    We went totally solar in this house almost 3 years ago. My last power bill was 10.70 worse scenario was 178.00 compared to 800/month...I'll take it. Wish we could do it Mainland, but it wouldn't be worth it. Not enough hot...or sun
    What does totally solar mean?
    What does it not mean? All of our power in our house and even our watering system and pool pump (we haven't solar heated the pool yet) are solar. Every light switch, every appliance, our water heaters, everything, is solar driven. Our meter often runs BACKWARD!
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    We went totally solar in this house almost 3 years ago. My last power bill was 10.70 worse scenario was 178.00 compared to 800/month...I'll take it. Wish we could do it Mainland, but it wouldn't be worth it. Not enough hot...or sun
    What does totally solar mean?
    What does it not mean? All of our power in our house and even our watering system and pool pump (we haven't solar heated the pool yet) are solar. Every light switch, every appliance, our water heaters, everything, is solar driven. Our meter often runs BACKWARD!
    Ah, so you are connected to the grid. Presumably, you use power from the grid at night. I don't call that totally solar.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    We went totally solar in this house almost 3 years ago. My last power bill was 10.70 worse scenario was 178.00 compared to 800/month...I'll take it. Wish we could do it Mainland, but it wouldn't be worth it. Not enough hot...or sun
    What does totally solar mean?
    What does it not mean? All of our power in our house and even our watering system and pool pump (we haven't solar heated the pool yet) are solar. Every light switch, every appliance, our water heaters, everything, is solar driven. Our meter often runs BACKWARD!
    Ah, so you are connected to the grid. Presumably, you use power from the grid at night. I don't call that totally solar.
    I disagree. They will not let us off the grid as if we do we crash the neighborhood (per them). Our meter runs backwards most of the time....therefore we usually just wind up paying the fees of the HELCO. My bill went from 800 to well last one was $10.70. Whatever power we produce our meters run BACKWARDS!!!!
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    So our solar panels produce all the power we need to run anything in our home....and our pool, and our irrigation system. We have credits so we have basically just service charges to pay.
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    They weren't too happy about it....took them 30 days to come out and hit a switch so we could convert....and I made three phone calls...very politely...when you live on an island you do NOT burn your bridges.
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    We went totally solar in this house almost 3 years ago. My last power bill was 10.70 worse scenario was 178.00 compared to 800/month...I'll take it. Wish we could do it Mainland, but it wouldn't be worth it. Not enough hot...or sun
    What does totally solar mean?
    What does it not mean? All of our power in our house and even our watering system and pool pump (we haven't solar heated the pool yet) are solar. Every light switch, every appliance, our water heaters, everything, is solar driven. Our meter often runs BACKWARD!
    Ah, so you are connected to the grid. Presumably, you use power from the grid at night. I don't call that totally solar.
    I disagree. They will not let us off the grid as if we do we crash the neighborhood (per them). Our meter runs backwards most of the time....therefore we usually just wind up paying the fees of the HELCO. My bill went from 800 to well last one was $10.70. Whatever power we produce our meters run BACKWARDS!!!!
    Running your meter backwards some of the time, or not paying an electric bill doesn't mean you are totally solar. This is my point. You generate your feel-good solar power during sunny days, and rely on the grid the rest of the time. It doesn't make sense that they will not let you off the grid. Nobody can force you to connect a power line to your home. Just get it disconnected if you think you can do without it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    We went totally solar in this house almost 3 years ago. My last power bill was 10.70 worse scenario was 178.00 compared to 800/month...I'll take it. Wish we could do it Mainland, but it wouldn't be worth it. Not enough hot...or sun
    What does totally solar mean?
    What does it not mean? All of our power in our house and even our watering system and pool pump (we haven't solar heated the pool yet) are solar. Every light switch, every appliance, our water heaters, everything, is solar driven. Our meter often runs BACKWARD!
    Ah, so you are connected to the grid. Presumably, you use power from the grid at night. I don't call that totally solar.
    I disagree. They will not let us off the grid as if we do we crash the neighborhood (per them). Our meter runs backwards most of the time....therefore we usually just wind up paying the fees of the HELCO. My bill went from 800 to well last one was $10.70. Whatever power we produce our meters run BACKWARDS!!!!
    Running your meter backwards some of the time, or not paying an electric bill doesn't mean you are totally solar. This is my point. You generate your feel-good solar power during sunny days, and rely on the grid the rest of the time. It doesn't make sense that they will not let you off the grid. Nobody can force you to connect a power line to your home. Just get it disconnected if you think you can do without it.
    My point is, we rarely need to use HELCO power....at all...and usually only in winter months....so we are not utterly dependent upon them.

    And, since I live in a neighborhood, so to speak....they CAN and HAVE told me that we could not disconnect from them. Period. Trust me, I asked. I asked why and even the solar company told me we couldn't due to restrictions in this zone.

    You live on an island. They will tell you what you can and cannot do in any neighborhood. If you live in the middle of nowhere....and have no power lines going to your home/neighborhood .then...you do not have that problem. Right now they are making it difficult for people to even GET SOLAR permits. As I said, three years ago they took over 30 days to sign a paper so that our solar meter could be turned on. Our next endeavor will be heating the pool solar. I can't swim in it. It is too cold. 77 degrees and my low body fat don't work well. I can swim in it now. But it has been in the 90's. They are "losing" money....well I don't feel a lot of compassion for them as they have been taking advantage of EVERY person on the island as they are the only source of power. They continue their control. Everyone loses power, so do I but my back up in my solar provides me with light for a few hours when everyone else is pitch black.
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    We went totally solar in this house almost 3 years ago. My last power bill was 10.70 worse scenario was 178.00 compared to 800/month...I'll take it. Wish we could do it Mainland, but it wouldn't be worth it. Not enough hot...or sun
    What does totally solar mean?
    What does it not mean? All of our power in our house and even our watering system and pool pump (we haven't solar heated the pool yet) are solar. Every light switch, every appliance, our water heaters, everything, is solar driven. Our meter often runs BACKWARD!
    Ah, so you are connected to the grid. Presumably, you use power from the grid at night. I don't call that totally solar.
    I disagree. They will not let us off the grid as if we do we crash the neighborhood (per them). Our meter runs backwards most of the time....therefore we usually just wind up paying the fees of the HELCO. My bill went from 800 to well last one was $10.70. Whatever power we produce our meters run BACKWARDS!!!!
    Running your meter backwards some of the time, or not paying an electric bill doesn't mean you are totally solar. This is my point. You generate your feel-good solar power during sunny days, and rely on the grid the rest of the time. It doesn't make sense that they will not let you off the grid. Nobody can force you to connect a power line to your home. Just get it disconnected if you think you can do without it.
    My point is, we rarely need to use HELCO power....at all...and usually only in winter months....so we are not utterly dependent upon them.
    Now it comes out. You need the power company in the winter and when your system goes down. So you will run your meter backwards, pay no electric bills, but expect the power company to be there for you in the winter. You don't care how they will stay in business during the summer, while earning no revenue. Screw them, right?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    We went totally solar in this house almost 3 years ago. My last power bill was 10.70 worse scenario was 178.00 compared to 800/month...I'll take it. Wish we could do it Mainland, but it wouldn't be worth it. Not enough hot...or sun
    What does totally solar mean?
    What does it not mean? All of our power in our house and even our watering system and pool pump (we haven't solar heated the pool yet) are solar. Every light switch, every appliance, our water heaters, everything, is solar driven. Our meter often runs BACKWARD!
    Ah, so you are connected to the grid. Presumably, you use power from the grid at night. I don't call that totally solar.
    I disagree. They will not let us off the grid as if we do we crash the neighborhood (per them). Our meter runs backwards most of the time....therefore we usually just wind up paying the fees of the HELCO. My bill went from 800 to well last one was $10.70. Whatever power we produce our meters run BACKWARDS!!!!
    Running your meter backwards some of the time, or not paying an electric bill doesn't mean you are totally solar. This is my point. You generate your feel-good solar power during sunny days, and rely on the grid the rest of the time. It doesn't make sense that they will not let you off the grid. Nobody can force you to connect a power line to your home. Just get it disconnected if you think you can do without it.
    My point is, we rarely need to use HELCO power....at all...and usually only in winter months....so we are not utterly dependent upon them.
    Now it comes out. You need the power company in the winter and when your system goes down. So you will run your meter backwards, pay no electric bills, but expect the power company to be there for you in the winter. You don't care how they will stay in business during the summer, while earning no revenue. Screw them, right?
    SYstem doesn't go down..EVER....we may produce less solar in the winter but we have solar going in every day of the year. It is Hawai'i! We don't go lower than 75 degrees ever! The HELCO is not there for us. Maybe we are not understanding each other. We wanted to use solar for our power, and not be dependent on HELCO. THEY WILL NOT LET US DEPART FROM THEIR SERVICES. Period. If we could. We would. We'd still have sufficient power to run everything every day of the year by the power generated daily. THEY WILL NOT LET US remove ourselves from them! SO no. You are incorrect. We don't do the SCREW them syndrome. IF they let us, we could put in battery packs that would sustain us in winter months also. Not needing them at all. BUT because of where we live (so they say) THEY WILL NOT LET US OFF THEIR SYSTEM!

    They also wish to know if they could buy our excess (backward running meter) power. WHICH we would have to pay a fee to have them buy it. Go figure. We said no. j

    As it is....whether or not we use their power.....we have to pay them a monthly service fee.
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    what are the costs for an nuclear plant ? and for an solar park and for an windturbine park??? I mean for energy they produce? for example of 1000 kw
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    HELCO has windmills all over the island.....Nuclear....no freaking way
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    THEY WILL NOT LET US DEPART FROM THEIR SERVICES. Period. If we could. We would. We'd still have sufficient power to run everything every day of the year by the power generated daily. THEY WILL NOT LET US remove ourselves from them!
    Babe, I don't think you really understand how your solar power system works. Before, you said your battery backup would last a few hours if the lights went out. Your solar cells are putting out nothing for at least an average of 12 hours per day. That's more than a few hours, so you must be running on HELCO power at night. You can't get off the grid, unless you want to let your power go out every night. Maybe that's why they're telling you you can't do it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    You've made my point then. You have your feel-good solar power system, then you have the grid (nuclear or fossil) for the power you can rely on. Why did you say you generate all your power?
    Because I generate all the power I use. I use the grid as a big battery. I feed it during the day and use during the night. This helps me (longer battery life) and it helps the utility by drawing power when they have excess and feeding power when they need it.

    I could drop to battery only - but THAT would be a pretty meaningless feel-good measure, since it would hurt both me and the utility, and would do nothing other than give me bragging rights.
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    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    You've made my point then. You have your feel-good solar power system, then you have the grid (nuclear or fossil) for the power you can rely on. Why did you say you generate all your power?
    Because I generate all the power I use. I use the grid as a big battery.
    This works up to a point, but with enough renewables on the grid, you will run into severe grid stability problems, as they are starting to find out in Germany.
    I feed it during the day and use during the night. This helps me (longer battery life) and it helps the utility by drawing power when they have excess and feeding power when they need it.
    Do you only feed power when they need it, or do they have to accept it whenever you want to generate it?
    I could drop to battery only -
    Would it really last all night?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    This works up to a point, but with enough renewables on the grid, you will run into severe grid stability problems, as they are starting to find out in Germany.
    That's a control problem, not an inherent problem of renewable energy. In Germany the problem is caused by not having control over all those sources of generation. That's changing; new RE supplies are required to have control inputs that allow utility level regulation of generation.

    In many ways Germany is serving as a test bed for a lot of the technologies that will be adopted as more renewable energy is used both here and throughout the world.

    Do you only feed power when they need it, or do they have to accept it whenever you want to generate it?
    Currently both, due to the fact that the CAL-ISO predicted demand graph pretty closely matches power generated during sunlight hours - and I feed back as much as I can, whenever I can. However they do have the ability to "shut me down" remotely if they really don't want the power I am generating (i.e. they are working on lines nearby or something.) To my knowledge they have never used that feature.

    Would it really last all night?
    Well, I currently have 8kwhr of storage, and during the nighttime (without EV charging, dishwashing or laundry) we use about 5kwhr. So we could run indefinitely as long as we were careful to do all our heavy-load stuff like EV charging, laundry, dishwashing etc during the daylight hours.

    However, if we really did get into a situation where we had no power for a long time I would probably switch over to our Prius as nighttime power source. They are good for about 5kW, more than enough to run things like dishwashers and EV chargers. They are also pretty efficient; a tank of gas will last about a week.
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    Do you get paid for putting electricity back into the grid in America or is your system purely to provide for your own electric needs?
    Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it. - confucius
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    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    That's a control problem, not an inherent problem of renewable energy. In Germany the problem is caused by not having control over all those sources of generation. That's changing; new RE supplies are required to have control inputs that allow utility level regulation of generation.
    If this were the case, I don't think they'd be talking about building thousands of miles of transmission lines, grid storage facilities, and all the other stuff. There's no way that control inputs are going to compensate for wind dying down in an entire region, or the loss of practically all their solar generation in the winter. They're going to be running coal plants or whatever on an intermittent basis. That's an expensive proposition, but a lot of people think electric utilities should sell their power at the same old prices, or even less, because of the "free" renewable power. That ain't going to happen.

    In many ways Germany is serving as a test bed for a lot of the technologies that will be adopted as more renewable energy is used both here and throughout the world.
    I think they're going to learn some sharp lessons.
    Do you only feed power when they need it, or do they have to accept it whenever you want to generate it?
    Currently both, due to the fact that the CAL-ISO predicted demand graph pretty closely matches power generated during sunlight hours - and I feed back as much as I can, whenever I can. However they do have the ability to "shut me down" remotely if they really don't want the power I am generating (i.e. they are working on lines nearby or something.) To my knowledge they have never used that feature.

    Would it really last all night?
    Well, I currently have 8kwhr of storage, and during the nighttime (without EV charging, dishwashing or laundry) we use about 5kwhr. So we could run indefinitely as long as we were careful to do all our heavy-load stuff like EV charging, laundry, dishwashing etc during the daylight hours.

    However, if we really did get into a situation where we had no power for a long time I would probably switch over to our Prius as nighttime power source. They are good for about 5kW, more than enough to run things like dishwashers and EV chargers. They are also pretty efficient; a tank of gas will last about a week.
    I imagine you spent quite a bit for your system. Most people don't find it economical to do that.
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    [QUOTE=Harold14370;475527but a lot of people think electric utilities should sell their power at the same old prices, or even less, because of the "free" renewable power. That ain't going to happen.[/quote]

    (nods). Building redundant systems and massive shunting across regions to ease base loading requirements is going to be expensive. Without subsidizes most home solar or wind systems have more than 20+ year pay offs--they aren't not the answer for now. The big stumbling block is efficient and inexpensive storage at any scale.
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Do you get paid for putting electricity back into the grid in America or is your system purely to provide for your own electric needs?
    No, we can just reduce our bill to zero. (To about $5 a month actually; that's the minimum charge.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    If this were the case, I don't think they'd be talking about building thousands of miles of transmission lines, grid storage facilities, and all the other stuff.
    Keep in mind that we are doing that here too, even though we have a much smaller percentage of renewable energy. The reason we are doing it here is

    1) Reliability. Fossil fuel plants aren't all that reliable either, and losing a plant can cause cascading blackouts unless you have the transmission lines and the pumped storage to keep you going while alternatives are spun up.

    2) Flexibility. Rather than have to run the most expensive power plants that they have (the straight through peakers) utilities would prefer to be able to store power for peak demand times. This is also becoming a problem in some areas for nuclear power plants - they are hard to throttle and some power plants are actually generating too MUCH power at night. (Too much power + not enough load = frequency stability problems for grids.)

    Both those improvements - transmission and storage - will also help greatly for renewable energy, of course.

    There's no way that control inputs are going to compensate for wind dying down in an entire region, or the loss of practically all their solar generation in the winter.
    If you can control sources and loads then you have no control problems. Much of the problem is currently caused by lack of control of both - but that's in the process of being fixed.

    They're going to be running coal plants or whatever on an intermittent basis. That's an expensive proposition
    Agreed - and that's where more transmission and more storage can help. (As can smarter loads and sources.)

    but a lot of people think electric utilities should sell their power at the same old prices, or even less, because of the "free" renewable power. That ain't going to happen.
    Also agreed. In general prices (for the same service) climb to support renewable energy. On the plus side, TOU pricing actually drops if you have that much flexibility, since renewable energy is inherently "peaky."

    I imagine you spent quite a bit for your system. Most people don't find it economical to do that.
    Well, my first system cost very little. It was made from surplus/scavenged parts and I used it mainly to reduce my bill somewhat, have backup power and learn about solar. When I bought my first house I installed a pure grid tie system there and spent about $12,000 for a 4kW system that generated all the power we needed. My end cost after rebates/incentives was about $6000.

    The system I have now was actually free; it came with the house, and all the modifications I have made since then (primarily the islanding inverter + batteries) have been made with parts that were donated/broken and repaired/surplus. It would be difficult to price it accurately now since even the original system is now about 10 years old and thus are no longer available.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    THEY WILL NOT LET US DEPART FROM THEIR SERVICES. Period. If we could. We would. We'd still have sufficient power to run everything every day of the year by the power generated daily. THEY WILL NOT LET US remove ourselves from them!
    Babe, I don't think you really understand how your solar power system works. Before, you said your battery backup would last a few hours if the lights went out. Your solar cells are putting out nothing for at least an average of 12 hours per day. That's more than a few hours, so you must be running on HELCO power at night. You can't get off the grid, unless you want to let your power go out every night. Maybe that's why they're telling you you can't do it.
    I certainly will not deny that there is truth in that! *laughing* I can only state SIMPLY that we generate enough power (with the meter going backwards during the day) to generate power w/o paying them at night. The only time we have to pay them, is when we did not generate the backwards arrow during the day and have to rely on some of theirs. We had hoped to be totally FREE of them. Generally speaking if our bill is $10.70 a month, they are service and tax charges, and we have stored energy for another 24 hour day. No charges are levied on us as long as we have backward arrow energy to use.

    Don't know if that makes any more sense to you.

    I really apologize if I have been "difficult". Not my intention and I sincerely appreciate your patience!! I'd have probably thrown a shoe at me!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Do you get paid for putting electricity back into the grid in America or is your system purely to provide for your own electric needs?
    No, we can just reduce our bill to zero. (To about $5 a month actually; that's the minimum charge.)
    Exactly!! We still have to pay the service (minimum charge).
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    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Do you get paid for putting electricity back into the grid in America or is your system purely to provide for your own electric needs?
    No, we can just reduce our bill to zero. (To about $5 a month actually; that's the minimum charge.)
    I so wish I could explain things as simply and clearly as you do! POOR HAROLD!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Do you get paid for putting electricity back into the grid in America or is your system purely to provide for your own electric needs?
    No, we can just reduce our bill to zero. (To about $5 a month actually; that's the minimum charge.)
    I so wish I could explain things as simply and clearly as you do! POOR HAROLD!!
    I actually do understand that you can reduce the bill to zero. You just can't do it without being connected to the grid, and the laws that allow you to take advantage of the power company. All you see is the meter turning backwards or forward. But to make that happen, the electric utility company might be having to shut down some generating plants when a whole lot of wind and solar comes onto the grid, then start them back up at night, when it's cloudy, or when the wind dies down.

    They have to maintain all these plants available. It's like your understudy who has to rehearse all the lines of the play, so she can be ready to go in at any time. She still needs to get paid, even when she doesn't go out on stage.

    Maintenance costs and operating costs stay about the same. The power plants are only saving a bit of fuel. And when they are not spinning the meters FORWARD, they don't have money coming in.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Do you get paid for putting electricity back into the grid in America or is your system purely to provide for your own electric needs?
    No, we can just reduce our bill to zero. (To about $5 a month actually; that's the minimum charge.)
    I so wish I could explain things as simply and clearly as you do! POOR HAROLD!!
    I actually do understand that you can reduce the bill to zero. You just can't do it without being connected to the grid, and the laws that allow you to take advantage of the power company. All you see is the meter turning backwards or forward. But to make that happen, the electric utility company might be having to shut down some generating plants when a whole lot of wind and solar comes onto the grid, then start them back up at night, when it's cloudy, or when the wind dies down.

    They have to maintain all these plants available. It's like your understudy who has to rehearse all the lines of the play, so she can be ready to go in at any time. She still needs to get paid, even when she doesn't go out on stage.

    Maintenance costs and operating costs stay about the same. The power plants are only saving a bit of fuel. And when they are not spinning the meters FORWARD, they don't have money coming in.
    OK so we're good!! Mahalo!!! I understand what you are saying and agree.
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