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Thread: Layoffs affect everyone

  1. #1 Layoffs affect everyone 
    ...matter and pixie dust wegs's Avatar
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    I posted an article a few weeks back, about Wells Fargo laying off a good number of employees out of their mortgage unit. There were mixed replies at the time. I ran across this brief article today Bank of America job cuts may affect local business - 19 Action News|Cleveland, OH|News, Weather, Sports because I was looking at different reports about Bank of America laying off workers, in one of their call centers. Apparently, this layoff will affect a small local restaurant that relies on these B of A employees for their lunch business. So before you make an opinion, think about how layoffs eventually affect...everyone.


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  3. #2  
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    Layoffs are always bad for more than just the people being laid off. There is always a trickle down effect. It hurts the entire economy. And sadly, a good number of lay offs is not due to positions being eliminated, they are simply being shipped overseas to people who they can pay a 10th the wages to, not have to provide medical coverage to, and not have to lower their prices for services here as a result of their reduced expenses. They do not pass the savings on to the people they dump on their faces. Instead they just take a bigger profit while spitting in the faces of their customers.


    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
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  4. #3  
    Northern Horse Whisperer Moderator scheherazade's Avatar
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    The domino effect...literally.
    No one is exempt because, at the fundamental level, all things are integrated.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E7Ep3U06Nc
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  5. #4  
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    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post
    Layoffs are always bad for more than just the people being laid off. There is always a trickle down effect. It hurts the entire economy. And sadly, a good number of lay offs is not due to positions being eliminated, they are simply being shipped overseas to people who they can pay a 10th the wages to, not have to provide medical coverage to, and not have to lower their prices for services here as a result of their reduced expenses. They do not pass the savings on to the people they dump on their faces. Instead they just take a bigger profit while spitting in the faces of their customers.
    And yet people still shop at Wal-Mart and look for the best deals.
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  6. #5  
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    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post
    Layoffs are always bad for more than just the people being laid off. There is always a trickle down effect. It hurts the entire economy. And sadly, a good number of lay offs is not due to positions being eliminated, they are simply being shipped overseas to people who they can pay a 10th the wages to, not have to provide medical coverage to, and not have to lower their prices for services here as a result of their reduced expenses. They do not pass the savings on to the people they dump on their faces. Instead they just take a bigger profit while spitting in the faces of their customers.
    This is so true! I'll tell ya something, I worked for a big corporation for a little over a decade, and what really is a sad reality is that if a company is public, then all the 'C' suite cares about is kissing the asses of their investors, and board members. The customers/clients even come second. The employees then a very distant third place. This is the problem, greed. Plain and simple. Companies are not as lean as they'd have people believe when they cut jobs, like Walls Fargo or B of A. Sure, they are not meeting their investors' expectations, but it's much about stock price and the average worker gets cut over it. I could go on and on. I now work for a smaller business, and it's much better in many ways.

    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    The domino effect...literally.
    No one is exempt because, at the fundamental level, all things are integrated.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E7Ep3U06Nc
    Yes, a domino effect indeed. I don't know what it was today, but when I ran across this article, tears welled up in my eyes...it's just sad. But, it's often been said that in the most trying economic times, opportunities present themselves, more than in thriving times. We shall see, I guess.
    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post
    Layoffs are always bad for more than just the people being laid off. There is always a trickle down effect. It hurts the entire economy. And sadly, a good number of lay offs is not due to positions being eliminated, they are simply being shipped overseas to people who they can pay a 10th the wages to, not have to provide medical coverage to, and not have to lower their prices for services here as a result of their reduced expenses. They do not pass the savings on to the people they dump on their faces. Instead they just take a bigger profit while spitting in the faces of their customers.
    And yet people still shop at Wal-Mart and look for the best deals.
    Ugh, so very true billvon.
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  7. #6  
    Northern Horse Whisperer Moderator scheherazade's Avatar
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    In my simple opinion, if you want to reduce layoffs at the local level, you need to spend the majority of your funds at the local level.

    It may be personally advantageous to shop around for 'deals' but in the long run, the broader community suffers the greater loss as jobs and money are 'outsourced'.

    What does that say about the increasing number of millionaires and billionaires? More wealth in the hands of a few individuals at the expense of the greater population. Some individuals control the amount of money greater than some small countries...

    The World's Billionaires List - Forbes
    List of government budgets by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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  8. #7  
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    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post
    Layoffs are always bad for more than just the people being laid off. There is always a trickle down effect. It hurts the entire economy. And sadly, a good number of lay offs is not due to positions being eliminated, they are simply being shipped overseas to people who they can pay a 10th the wages to, not have to provide medical coverage to, and not have to lower their prices for services here as a result of their reduced expenses. They do not pass the savings on to the people they dump on their faces. Instead they just take a bigger profit while spitting in the faces of their customers.
    Actually, they do pass on the savings, to a large degree. Seeing these are mostly publicly quoted companies, where do you think the profits go to? Mostly to shareholders, or to banks who have made them loans...who also have shareholders. And who are the shareholders? Pension funds and other forms of saving, owned by you and me and everyone else.

    I don't have much time for protectionism, myself. Seems to me that employing people in Asia drives up their wages and working conditions, so who's to say this is less worthwhile an outcome than paying people in the USA or the UK.

    What I do think needs regulation, though, is the salaries of the senior execs in large corporations. They have a self-serving argument that it is a competitive labour market at the top and must pay "the going rate", but these guys all sit on one another's remuneration committees! That, in my view, is where the chief scandal of modern capitalism is to be found - boardroom pay.
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  9. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    In my simple opinion, if you want to reduce layoffs at the local level, you need to spend the majority of your funds at the local level.

    It may be personally advantageous to shop around for 'deals' but in the long run, the broader community suffers the greater loss as jobs and money are 'outsourced'.
    flip side(old idiom some of you younger folks may not know)

    A few years ago, it became obvious that my 30 year old jonshreds chain saw was being overtaxed, and i decided to get a new larger barred saw.
    The local husky dealer wanted a high price for the saw I wanted, so I shopped on-line and found much lower prices from a dealer in the southwest.
    I approached the local store owner and told him the prices I had found, and asked if his price was negotiable. He refused to negotiate. So I ordered 2 saws from the sw husky dealer, one larger than the jonshreds, and one smaller. Both, delivered to my door for less than 10% more than the local dealer wanted for the one. The huskys are my felling and trimming saws, but the old jonshreds comes out for bucking work where it's higher torque shows it's value.

    Though I agree that it is best for the local economy if one buys most products locally, I do not have any empathy for someone who thinks he needs to make a killing on every single deal, then spends his profits on luxury automobiles made far away, or on vacations far far away.

    (I ain't completely confused yet, but I am working on it)
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  10. #9  
    has lost interest seagypsy's Avatar
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    When it comes to shopping local, I consider anything within the USA to be local. And I prefer products made in the USA.
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
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  11. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    What does that say about the increasing number of millionaires and billionaires?
    That's a good thing IMO. The more rich people the better. Fortunately all walks of life are making more money, at least in the US. (Well, strictly speaking it took a big dip in 2008 when the recession hit, but both the current trend and the trend since the 1960's is positive for all income brackets.)
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  12. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post
    When it comes to shopping local, I consider anything within the USA to be local. And I prefer products made in the USA.
    Can be hard to figure out some days. Do you buy the Ford Fiesta made in Mexico? Or the Nissan Leaf made in Tennessee?
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  13. #12  
    has lost interest seagypsy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post
    Layoffs are always bad for more than just the people being laid off. There is always a trickle down effect. It hurts the entire economy. And sadly, a good number of lay offs is not due to positions being eliminated, they are simply being shipped overseas to people who they can pay a 10th the wages to, not have to provide medical coverage to, and not have to lower their prices for services here as a result of their reduced expenses. They do not pass the savings on to the people they dump on their faces. Instead they just take a bigger profit while spitting in the faces of their customers.
    Actually, they do pass on the savings, to a large degree. Seeing these are mostly publicly quoted companies, where do you think the profits go to? Mostly to shareholders, or to banks who have made them loans...who also have shareholders. And who are the shareholders? Pension funds and other forms of saving, owned by you and me and everyone else.
    that is a major assumption. I don't any own stock, pension funds or any form of savings. I have a checking account only and they nickle and dime me all over the place.
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  14. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post
    When it comes to shopping local, I consider anything within the USA to be local. And I prefer products made in the USA.
    Can be hard to figure out some days. Do you buy the Ford Fiesta made in Mexico? Or the Nissan Leaf made in Tennessee?
    I said prefer products made in the USA. I didn't say it is always possible to get. And no I don't buy ford fiesta made in mexico or nissan leaf either. What the hell is a fiesta or a leaf? Those both sound like shit cars to me.
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
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  15. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post
    When it comes to shopping local, I consider anything within the USA to be local. And I prefer products made in the USA.
    Can be hard to figure out some days. Do you buy the Ford Fiesta made in Mexico? Or the Nissan Leaf made in Tennessee?
    Not to mention that cars often have parts made in countries all across the world. The point many manufacturers like to celebrate is where the car is assembled. Is it really such a great gesture of patriotism to take a Japanese-make car with a French engine and put it together in California (talking about my very own Z)?

    It's a convoluted process.
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
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  16. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post
    When it comes to shopping local, I consider anything within the USA to be local. And I prefer products made in the USA.
    Can be hard to figure out some days. Do you buy the Ford Fiesta made in Mexico? Or the Nissan Leaf made in Tennessee?
    I said prefer products made in the USA. I didn't say it is always possible to get. And no I don't buy ford fiesta made in mexico or nissan leaf either. What the hell is a fiesta or a leaf? Those both sound like shit cars to me.
    Not really staying up to date on the car scene, eh?

    The Leaf is a fairly acclaimed electric car made by Nissan and the Fiesta is the re-release of a classic Ford. Ford, for what it's worth, have been making some pretty good cars recently.

    Still, as much as I want to support my country, I can't think of a single American car I'd buy. There are a couple Fords that I wouldn't mind, but there are always better European alternatives. Supporting my country apparently comes second to supporting superior manufacturing and performance.
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  17. #16  
    has lost interest seagypsy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post
    When it comes to shopping local, I consider anything within the USA to be local. And I prefer products made in the USA.
    Can be hard to figure out some days. Do you buy the Ford Fiesta made in Mexico? Or the Nissan Leaf made in Tennessee?
    I said prefer products made in the USA. I didn't say it is always possible to get. And no I don't buy ford fiesta made in Mexico or Nissan leaf either. What the hell is a fiesta or a leaf? Those both sound like shit cars to me.

    Not really staying up to date on the car scene, eh?

    The Leaf is a fairly acclaimed electric car made by Nissan and the Fiesta is the re-release of a classic Ford. Ford, for what it's worth, have been making some pretty good cars recently.

    Still, as much as I want to support my country, I can't think of a single American car I'd buy. There are a couple Fords that I wouldn't mind, but there are always better European alternatives. Supporting my country apparently comes second to supporting superior manufacturing and performance.
    I hate any car that has a computer in it. I don't want my car thinking. That's my job. I doubt I'll ever buy a newer car in my lifetime. Once finances aren't an issue. There will be nothing but classic cars in my driveway. Even if I have to go British to get one.

    Other than that, I hope to live in the rural areas soon and be able to go by horseback for many things. May have to move up to Alaska and neighbor up with scheherazade.
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  18. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post
    When it comes to shopping local, I consider anything within the USA to be local. And I prefer products made in the USA.
    Can be hard to figure out some days. Do you buy the Ford Fiesta made in Mexico? Or the Nissan Leaf made in Tennessee?
    Buying a car is a bit trickier than you are suggesting. Where the car is made, or where all the parts were made are usually not first or even second considerations. The way I do it is to start with a price range I can live with, then make sure there are at least 4 doors and great gas mileage. Then I check Consumer reports to see how all the comparable cars in that category are rated. Then I look for the car of my choice at a local dealer and if he doesn't try gouge me I'll buy from him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post
    Buying a car is a bit trickier than you are suggesting.
    Oh, I'm not suggesting that provenance should be the only criteria for a car purchase. In fact my car decisions are based on utility, reliability, fuel economy, environmental impact and safety before point of origin. Just pointing out that even if "buy american" is your #1 goal it's hard to do nowadays.

    (Although given that I just put a down payment on a Tesla model X I think I might manage all of the above.)
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  20. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post
    Buying a car is a bit trickier than you are suggesting.
    Oh, I'm not suggesting that provenance should be the only criteria for a car purchase. In fact my car decisions are based on utility, reliability, fuel economy, environmental impact and safety before point of origin. Just pointing out that even if "buy american" is your #1 goal it's hard to do nowadays.

    (Although given that I just put a down payment on a Tesla model X I think I might manage all of the above.)
    If I had the money I'd like one of those myself. However I think they need a few more charging stations in my area.
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  21. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post
    Buying a car is a bit trickier than you are suggesting.
    Oh, I'm not suggesting that provenance should be the only criteria for a car purchase. In fact my car decisions are based on utility, reliability, fuel economy, environmental impact and safety before point of origin. Just pointing out that even if "buy american" is your #1 goal it's hard to do nowadays.

    (Although given that I just put a down payment on a Tesla model X I think I might manage all of the above.)
    Great news, billvon! Tesla Model S got Motor Trend's Car of the Year 2013...oo la la!
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  22. #21  
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    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post
    Layoffs are always bad for more than just the people being laid off. There is always a trickle down effect. It hurts the entire economy. And sadly, a good number of lay offs is not due to positions being eliminated, they are simply being shipped overseas to people who they can pay a 10th the wages to, not have to provide medical coverage to, and not have to lower their prices for services here as a result of their reduced expenses. They do not pass the savings on to the people they dump on their faces. Instead they just take a bigger profit while spitting in the faces of their customers.
    Actually, they do pass on the savings, to a large degree. Seeing these are mostly publicly quoted companies, where do you think the profits go to? Mostly to shareholders, or to banks who have made them loans...who also have shareholders. And who are the shareholders? Pension funds and other forms of saving, owned by you and me and everyone else.

    I don't have much time for protectionism, myself. Seems to me that employing people in Asia drives up their wages and working conditions, so who's to say this is less worthwhile an outcome than paying people in the USA or the UK.

    What I do think needs regulation, though, is the salaries of the senior execs in large corporations. They have a self-serving argument that it is a competitive labour market at the top and must pay "the going rate", but these guys all sit on one another's remuneration committees! That, in my view, is where the chief scandal of modern capitalism is to be found - boardroom pay.
    I agree (that is where the greed lies), but how would you go about 'regulating' salaries of the C suite execs in large corporations? Only publically traded, or both private and public, are you thinking?
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    If/when money ever allows it, NF and I are gonna hire Jocular to build us a steam powered engine and build a car around that. We will use all American made resources to construct it.
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
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  24. #23  
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    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post
    What I do think needs regulation, though, is the salaries of the senior execs in large corporations. They have a self-serving argument that it is a competitive labour market at the top and must pay "the going rate", but these guys all sit on one another's remuneration committees! That, in my view, is where the chief scandal of modern capitalism is to be found - boardroom pay.
    Hmm. If you invented something and started a company, and started to recoup the decades of work and money you sunk into it, and someone came along and said "hey, you're making too much money!" - would you tend to listen to them?

    In general I think the owners of any company have a right to be as smart (or as stupid) about pay as they want to be. It's their company - and their failure if the company folds because of their foolish salary decisions.
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    What I think he is saying is...lay offs shouldn't be permitted while the board members and C suite get and stay rich. That's not right. How can some of those corporate execs sleep at night? Yuck.
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    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post
    What I do think needs regulation, though, is the salaries of the senior execs in large corporations. They have a self-serving argument that it is a competitive labour market at the top and must pay "the going rate", but these guys all sit on one another's remuneration committees! That, in my view, is where the chief scandal of modern capitalism is to be found - boardroom pay.
    Hmm. If you invented something and started a company, and started to recoup the decades of work and money you sunk into it, and someone came along and said "hey, you're making too much money!" - would you tend to listen to them?In general I think the owners of any company have a right to be as smart (or as stupid) about pay as they want to be. It's their company - and their failure if the company folds because of their foolish salary decisions.
    I'm not against capitalism but I'm against laying off employees while the C suite stays fat and happy. That's just so wrong.
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    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post
    What I do think needs regulation, though, is the salaries of the senior execs in large corporations. They have a self-serving argument that it is a competitive labour market at the top and must pay "the going rate", but these guys all sit on one another's remuneration committees! That, in my view, is where the chief scandal of modern capitalism is to be found - boardroom pay.
    Hmm. If you invented something and started a company, and started to recoup the decades of work and money you sunk into it, and someone came along and said "hey, you're making too much money!" - would you tend to listen to them?... .
    billvon
    inventors who started their own companies most likely account for < 1/10 of 1% of high paid senior execs.

    The other 99.9% were born to wealth. And educated in a very few universities/colleges.

    Interlocking directorates have been a growing problem for atleast 40 years, and continue to be leaches on the economies wherein they are active.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    What I think he is saying is...lay offs shouldn't be permitted while the board members and C suite get and stay rich. That's not right. How can some of those corporate execs sleep at night? Yuck.
    They are corporate execs because they are charged with taking care of the corporation in the best way they know how. However it's the governments job to look out for the people and if laws and regulations are not doing the job, then who do we have to blame, but ourselves.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    What I think he is saying is...lay offs shouldn't be permitted while the board members and C suite get and stay rich. That's not right. How can some of those corporate execs sleep at night? Yuck.
    Pretty well, I think.

    Let me give you one example that I am very familar with. Irwin Jacobs founded the company I now work at. Through his invention, his leadership and his hard work, my company now employs about 26,000 people across the world. That's 26,000 people that have jobs because of him.

    At times we have had layoffs. At other times we've had hiring binges. Obviously we have hired 26,000 more people than we have laid off. If I were him I'd sleep very well at night knowing how much work I had given to literally tens of thousands of people.

    I'm not against capitalism but I'm against laying off employees while the C suite stays fat and happy.
    Have you ever had to fire (or lay off) someone?
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    Billvon;What were the reasons for the layoffs?No, I've never fired someone or laid someone offAnd I make a very good living but have been laid off before, meanwhile...the stock price shot up a buck or two the following month, after a large layoff. Then I was invited back and I refused to go back to a place that treated employees like puppets.Any top exec who can sleep at night with that type of mindset has no conscience. Greed makes otherwise humble men very stupid. I had a friend who went back...she was laid off three more times.I hear your point. But American top execs could cut their pay once in a while to keep from laying off no?I know...what a foreign concept. Lol

    @ bad robot...it's not the government's place to regulate companies...free enterprise is a good concept but its sad that its become a greed fest for corporate execs and investors. :/
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    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    Inventors who started their own companies most likely account for < 1/10 of 1% of high paid senior execs.
    Right. Most senior execs get where they are by hard work and long hours.

    The other 99.9% were born to wealth. And educated in a very few universities/colleges.
    Of the vice president and higher people I know at my company about 10% were born to wealth. The rest just worked really hard. A good friend of mine was born in New York to two parents, one an immigrant who gained his citizenship by fighting in WWII for the US, the other the daughter of two immigrants. They were quite poor when they were growing up. They had four children and managed to give them a fairly good life, although none of them went to top schools. My friend came to California, worked while going to graduate school, got his MBA and eventually got promoted to VP.

    He wasn't born to wealth or educated in an elite university. And his story is by far the more common one here.

    I think there's a stereotype out there of the rich fatcat executive lighting his cigar with dollar bills, laughing while he lays off the poor struggling workers in his Dickensian plant. That's as much a stereotype as the welfare queen, or the gun-toting redneck conservative, or the drunken frat boy i.e. not very accurate at all.

    Interlocking directorates have been a growing problem for atleast 40 years, and continue to be leaches on the economies wherein they are active.
    You're conflating directorates with executives here. In general, directorates of companies are elected by the owners of the company (i.e. the shareholders.) Thus the owners of the company get to decide who they want (or don't want) in power. Those high paid senior execs are generally the people hired by the company to do a job - and fired when they don't do it.
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  32. #31  
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    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    Billvon;What were the reasons for the layoffs?
    A drop in sales that left us unable to carry so many employees - and with sales falling off there was nothing for a lot of people to do.

    No, I've never fired someone or laid someone off
    It's never easy. You have to take someone's job away and tell them "you're not wanted here." Unfortunately necessary at times, especially when someone else much better wants their job. You don't do your company any favors by continuing to employ a substandard employee while refusing to hire an excellent one. (Fortunately in our business, there's enough demand so they are generally not out of work - they just have to get a job somewhere else.)

    And I make a very good living but have been laid off before, meanwhile...the stock price shot up a buck or two the following month, after a large layoff.
    That's happened to us too. Not because the two were related, but because our stock has been all over the place since 1999, and since we've had a few layoffs. At some point the two are going to line up.

    But American too execs could cut their pay once in a while to keep from laying off no?
    Would you willingly ask for a 50% pay cut, then ask them to hire a second person with the money your company saved?
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  33. #32  
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    Here's a true story...a friend of mine worked for a small business owner who was struggling...he was going to lay off like 100 people. He decided to not take a salary for one year and he laid off only 50 people. That's called a hero and corporate America has very few of them.Tomorrow marks the anniversary of 9/11 when two planes hit the twin towers and the employees were told to go back to work! Told to go back to effing work after two planes hit the buildings! Wtf?America has a disease and it's called greed.
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  34. #33  
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    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    Billvon;What were the reasons for the layoffs?
    A drop in sales that left us unable to carry so many employees - and with sales falling off there was nothing for a lot of people to do.
    No, I've never fired someone or laid someone off
    It's never easy. You have to take someone's job away and tell them "you're not wanted here." Unfortunately necessary at times, especially when someone else much better wants their job. You don't do your company any favors by continuing to employ a substandard employee while refusing to hire an excellent one. (Fortunately in our business, there's enough demand so they are generally not out of work - they just have to get a job somewhere else.)
    And I make a very good living but have been laid off before, meanwhile...the stock price shot up a buck or two the following month, after a large layoff.
    That's happened to us too. Not because the two were related, but because our stock has been all over the place since 1999, and since we've had a few layoffs. At some point the two are going to line up.
    But American too execs could cut their pay once in a while to keep from laying off no?
    Would you willingly ask for a 50% pay cut, then ask them to hire a second person with the money your company saved?
    I don't live lavishly but yes I would. MOST CEO's don't do it because they don't give a rip. If you think differently, you are lying to yourself for I know you're not naive.
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  35. #34  
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    Firing someone for poor performance or other reasons while sad, is different. Laying off a large part of your staff while execs are still living fat and happy, making their annual bonuses and such, is just beyond gross.
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  36. #35  
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    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    In my simple opinion, if you want to reduce layoffs at the local level, you need to spend the majority of your funds at the local level.It may be personally advantageous to shop around for 'deals' but in the long run, the broader community suffers the greater loss as jobs and money are 'outsourced'.
    flip side(old idiom some of you younger folks may not know)A few years ago, it became obvious that my 30 year old jonshreds chain saw was being overtaxed, and i decided to get a new larger barred saw.The local husky dealer wanted a high price for the saw I wanted, so I shopped on-line and found much lower prices from a dealer in the southwest. I approached the local store owner and told him the prices I had found, and asked if his price was negotiable. He refused to negotiate. So I ordered 2 saws from the sw husky dealer, one larger than the jonshreds, and one smaller. Both, delivered to my door for less than 10% more than the local dealer wanted for the one. The huskys are my felling and trimming saws, but the old jonshreds comes out for bucking work where it's higher torque shows it's value.Though I agree that it is best for the local economy if one buys most products locally, I do not have any empathy for someone who thinks he needs to make a killing on every single deal, then spends his profits on luxury automobiles made far away, or on vacations far far away.(I ain't completely confused yet, but I am working on it)
    that was just dumb business on his part. Meanwhile...he lost any repeat business he could have earned from you plus he won't get any referral business from you. Greed makes an otherwise humble person stupid.I don't blame you at all, the consumer is going to look for the best deal.
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    Hey, any of you here support your local farmers markets? What a great way to support your local growers!
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  38. #37  
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    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    I don't live lavishly but yes I would.
    Why haven't you?

    MOST CEO's don't do it because they don't give a rip.
    I have never met a CEO that doesn't give a rip. Such people generally don't get to be CEO's. I have met a lot of CEO's that have had to decide between the best interests of the company and the best interests of individual employees, and it's never an easy decision. I don't know a single CEO that takes layoffs lightly. I am sure they exist, but in my experience they are rare.

    Saying "most CEO's don't give a rip" is like saying that "most secretaries are dizzy women" or "most teachers just weren't skilled enough get a real job" or "most women aren't competitive enough to be executives." You can find examples of all of those, but that doesn't mean they are true in general.

    The media has a very consistent presentation of "upper level executives" as greedy, uncaring tyrants because that's a stereotype that people like to believe. Think about every movie you have ever seen featuring an employee and their boss. The boss is, 99% of the time, portrayed as mean and uncaring, and are generally buffoons compared to the employee who is overworked, underpaid, mistreated and in the final analysis much smarter than their bosses. Think of Office Space, 9 to 5, Wall Street, Beverly Hills cop etc. Heck, look at action movies; the villain is often a rich executive mad with power who tries to take over the company, city, state or even world. I recall a recent James Bond movie where the supervillain was a combination of Bill Gates and Rupert Murdock.

    However, IMO it is a mistake to assume that Hollywood stereotypes are valid, as tempting as that is. For the most part people are promoted because they are talented, not because they are mean or stupid.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    Hey, any of you here support your local farmers markets? What a great way to support your local growers!
    Our corporate store actually buys just about everything that the one serious farmer in this territory grows. He keeps our store provided with potatoes for 8-9 months of the year and right now we have carrots, beets, cabbage and turnips right as you enter the front door. It is a thing of beauty. The cabbages are so big that we cut some of them in half for small families and singles to purchase and we have been moving 13,000 bunches of carrots per week at present. The smaller producers sell at farmer's markets and farm gate sales. We also have an organic co-op where people purchase shares early in the year and then receive a weekly basket of seasonal produce for several months of the year. The cranberries are just coming ripe and I have been picking and made a batch of crowberry/cranberry sauce already. I shall soon be harvesting the bulk of my carrots and drying some kale for soups and stews. I really enjoy the season of harvest save for the knowledge that winter will be following soon after.

    (There is something odd going on. I just had to edit a bunch of weird stuff out of this post.)
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  40. #39  
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    @ billvon: I worked for a large firm two jobs ago and they were asking employees to "buy blocks" of time off in order to preserve jobs. It was voluntary and I did that. It cost me about $10k per year; you could only contribute so much, u know? So, that program was what the employer asked of employees and it was a great endeavor. As to the rest of your post, I don't stereotype so I'm not addressing it.There are very few Warren Buffets in the world. So we will have to agree to disagree, as they say.the stereotypes that came to your mind that you listed were um...interesting though. lol Hmmm...
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  41. #40  
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    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    Hey, any of you here support your local farmers markets? What a great way to support your local growers!
    Our corporate store actually buys just about everything that the one serious farmer in this territory grows. He keeps our store provided with potatoes for 8-9 months of the year and right now we have carrots, beets, cabbage and turnips right as you enter the front door. It is a thing of beauty. The cabbages are so big that we cut some of them in half for small families and singles to purchase and we have been moving 13,000 bunches of carrots per week at present. The smaller producers sell at farmer's markets and farm gate sales. We also have an organic co-op where people purchase shares early in the year and then receive a weekly basket of seasonal produce for several months of the year. The cranberries are just coming ripe and I have been picking and made a batch of crowberry/cranberry sauce already. I shall soon be harvesting the bulk of my carrots and drying some kale for soups and stews. I really enjoy the season of harvest save for the knowledge that winter will be following soon after.(There is something odd going on. I just had to edit a bunch of weird stuff out of this post.)
    oh wow! That's so awesome! Organic co-ops are really cool. It is a wonderful way to support the community and frankly, the food is better quality than the chain grocery stores. Thank you for sharing!
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  42. #41  
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    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    What does that say about the increasing number of millionaires and billionaires?
    That's a good thing IMO. The more rich people the better. Fortunately all walks of life are making more money, at least in the US. (Well, strictly speaking it took a big dip in 2008 when the recession hit, but both the current trend and the trend since the 1960's is positive for all income brackets.)
    This seems to be a most important factor. "Decentralizing" of the wealth, so to speak. joc
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    An article printed perhaps a year or so ago, indicated that Kirk Kerkorian's personal worth had dropped from about $40 billion to a mere $9 billion. So what was he doing to preserve what was left?

    He was buying up real estate! joc
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  44. #43  
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    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    Our corporate store actually buys just about everything that the one serious farmer in this territory grows.
    We subscribe to a local CSA that delivers a box of vegetables/fruit every week. You don't get to choose what you get but they do take feedback from people their customers as a whole, so if they're sending too much kale they will scale back and grow more snow peas (for example.) The farm itself is about 15 miles away, down by the border, and is run by about a dozen people. It's a pretty good deal and gets us 'unusual' vegetables we ordinarily we wouldn't try.
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    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post
    When it comes to shopping local, I consider anything within the USA to be local. And I prefer products made in the USA.
    Can be hard to figure out some days. Do you buy the Ford Fiesta made in Mexico? Or the Nissan Leaf made in Tennessee?
    I said prefer products made in the USA. I didn't say it is always possible to get. And no I don't buy ford fiesta made in Mexico or Nissan leaf either. What the hell is a fiesta or a leaf? Those both sound like shit cars to me.

    Not really staying up to date on the car scene, eh?

    The Leaf is a fairly acclaimed electric car made by Nissan and the Fiesta is the re-release of a classic Ford. Ford, for what it's worth, have been making some pretty good cars recently.

    Still, as much as I want to support my country, I can't think of a single American car I'd buy. There are a couple Fords that I wouldn't mind, but there are always better European alternatives. Supporting my country apparently comes second to supporting superior manufacturing and performance.
    I hate any car that has a computer in it. I don't want my car thinking. That's my job. I doubt I'll ever buy a newer car in my lifetime. Once finances aren't an issue. There will be nothing but classic cars in my driveway. Even if I have to go British to get one.

    Other than that, I hope to live in the rural areas soon and be able to go by horseback for many things. May have to move up to Alaska and neighbor up with scheherazade.
    So you're old school, huh? Nice.

    I'm torn on agreeing with you. I would love to own an old classic car (can't really afford the ones I want), but at the same time I am head over heels in love with technology. The idea of self-driving cars fascinates me. I think that would be the biggest leap in transportation since the locomotive was first put on rails. Even so, I'm still not sold on cars as the optimal method of transportation. Personal transportation is great and all, but on a world scale, I just don't think it makes sense. For instance, I use 300 horsepower every day to get to work and back. That's a lot of power to move one person. It doesn't make much sense in terms of resources.

    Bottom line, though; I love cars. Old ones, new ones, ones that haven't even been made yet.
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
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