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Thread: To the Moderators. Could you allow this Thread to remain in this Forum.

  1. #1 To the Moderators. Could you allow this Thread to remain in this Forum. 
    The Enchanter westwind's Avatar
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    Reason being there are two Election Type Threads currently running in Politics Forum and are being well supported by Members. I would like to have a philisophical input to the current American Scene and what the situation might be in the coming 4 years. As I have not contributed to the currently running ops in Politics Forum I think it would be a bit rude of me to start voicing anything now.

    All I'd like to add to the American Dream or concept of Democracy under the American Capital/ Shareholder/Lobbying of Senators/ States Rights Issues is an understanding of Profit Driven Production and Employment concepts.

    Away from Armaments, Away from Conflict Situations, into Research and Development of Food Production and Distribution of Goods and Services.

    Away from Shareholder Greed, Away from Political Wrangling because of isms and deep seated causes, Into a love of Country and Pride of Citizenship.

    An understanding of the need for three levels of Middle Class Consumerism as against Rich and Poor.

    AND THE REALISATION that Adjustments will be necessary to get the basic underpinning right for a forward looking Economic Future.

    Of course these are just words. Of course the will of the People must be listened to. But first these new concepts of tiered Middle Class functioning levels of economic stimulous and forward growth must be explained in simple terms and practical examples should be Media Driven.

    How to get everybody on board? Well, The USA understandPublicity, understand the power of Advertising. The American People can be persuaded.

    In the long run I personally believe this is where America must stabilise the Future. We may be looking at the next two Governments. Surely long term Economic Stability is in the best interests of Everybody?

    What credentials do I have to speak of Economies? As a young man I had a little training in ballancing a countries Budgetary Projections. westwind.


    Words words words, were it better I caught your tears, and washed my face in them, and felt their sting. - westwind
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    Forum Cosmic Wizard icewendigo's Avatar
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    Im confused as to what is the point you are trying to make or the question? Is it possible to rephrase or simplify?
    (or if someone else can explain)


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    The Enchanter westwind's Avatar
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    My responsibility I guess icewendigo. You get my reason for not wanting to start another Political Thread?. When there are two running?

    I'm trying, in a nice way, to tell Obama how to run America for the next 4 years. westwind.
    Words words words, were it better I caught your tears, and washed my face in them, and felt their sting. - westwind
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    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    I don't think Obama is yet a member of the forum, so he might miss the advice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by westwind View Post
    Reason being there are two Election Type Threads currently running in Politics Forum and are being well supported by Members. I would like to have a philisophical input to the current American Scene and what the situation might be in the coming 4 years. As I have not contributed to the currently running ops in Politics Forum I think it would be a bit rude of me to start voicing anything now.

    All I'd like to add to the American Dream or concept of Democracy under the American Capital/ Shareholder/Lobbying of Senators/ States Rights Issues is an understanding of Profit Driven Production and Employment concepts.

    Away from Armaments, Away from Conflict Situations, into Research and Development of Food Production and Distribution of Goods and Services.

    Away from Shareholder Greed, Away from Political Wrangling because of isms and deep seated causes, Into a love of Country and Pride of Citizenship.

    An understanding of the need for three levels of Middle Class Consumerism as against Rich and Poor.

    AND THE REALISATION that Adjustments will be necessary to get the basic underpinning right for a forward looking Economic Future.

    Of course these are just words. Of course the will of the People must be listened to. But first these new concepts of tiered Middle Class functioning levels of economic stimulous and forward growth must be explained in simple terms and practical examples should be Media Driven.

    How to get everybody on board? Well, The USA understandPublicity, understand the power of Advertising. The American People can be persuaded.

    In the long run I personally believe this is where America must stabilise the Future. We may be looking at the next two Governments. Surely long term Economic Stability is in the best interests of Everybody?

    What credentials do I have to speak of Economies? As a young man I had a little training in ballancing a countries Budgetary Projections. westwind.
    1. Conflict - It is by way and means of military force, power and threat that the United States sustains and maintains its current economic system and economy.

    2. Goods and Services - As long as other nations produce or do not interfere with the production of the things the United States wants, and the American people are allowed to consume those things by trading US dollars for them, then the United States government will not attack, threaten to attack or carry out acts of war against those nations/peoples.

    3. Economic Stability - Under the current global system, economic stability in relation to the west is only good for the United States and its allies.

    4. Balance between capital/savings and consumption - The United States government, today, functions solely by its ability to take from people in order to increase its own consumption. Likewise, the American people, today and for the most part, live and enjoy their life's because the american government and the economic system they created allows them to take from the rest of the world in order to consume and increase their own consumption.
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    I don't think Obama is yet a member of the forum, so he might miss the advice.
    That's a shame he'll miss all the advice I have for him as well, the only thing for it is start a campaign to get him to join.
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    The Enchanter westwind's Avatar
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    For John Galt and Chrisgorlitz. You'd better believe it.!! westwind.
    Words words words, were it better I caught your tears, and washed my face in them, and felt their sting. - westwind
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    From the responses I have had from my congressman, it seems that very few of my fellow citizens actually communicate with our congressman. I get emails from my senators, and congressmen(state and federal), and follow their voting records.
    When I see legislation that they are dealing with and that interests me, I call or email them, and voice my opinions and questions.
    I ain't no wealthy lobbyist, but my voice does seem to matter to them, and they reply to my suggestions(even if it is to caution me that my suggestions are impractical)
    They really seem to care about their constituants, and want to help us.
    Sometimes this leads to rather peculiar help.
    eg: Once, many years ago, my one son had lost his passport, and we were planning to all go abroad to visit his twin brother. We helped him apply for a replacement passport, and were getting nowhere in a big hurry, time passed, and we were due to depart in about 10 days and hadn't yet received his replacement passport, so, I called our congressman and asked for his help. 4 days later, my son received a diplomatic passport via express mail. So for years, he carried a passport claiming that he was on a diplomatic mission------------silly? but it had some interesting perks.

    My fellow americans---------Communicate with your elected representatives. Make a habit of it.
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    Northern Horse Whisperer Moderator scheherazade's Avatar
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    sculptor raises a good point. Our elected representatives are only as good as the support they get from the citizenry and a good politician recognizes that they are the voice for all of their constituents, not only those who voted for them. Many people get funny about this in that they seem to think that if 'their' party is not in power, that there is no recourse for them.

    It is useful for the citizens to become familiar with existing policies that affect them directly and to advance ideas where they would like to see change in future. I was interested to see that gay marriage, recreational marijuana use and genetically modified foods disclosure are all making advancements in the U.S.

    BBC News - Maine and two other US states vote for gay marriage

    Living in the Yukon with a TOTAL population of approx 40,000 (yes, you read that right. Forty thousand +/-) enables individuals to have direct access to their politicians and local media. Both of our newspapers have 'Letters to the Editor' space and as long as you are willing to sign your name to your concerns and use respectful language, anyone has access to their own soapbox.

    You have no idea how contentious was the debate to allow people to keep chickens inside the city limits but a compromise has been reached.

    https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...cMXAUOXdWvMqBA

    A small measure, perhaps, but it allows those individuals who so desire to raise their own organic eggs. I have raised several flocks over the years and there is nothing to compare to the satisfaction of eating food you know the history of. Too busy of late to indulge in raising my own but I have connections, lol...
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    The Enchanter westwind's Avatar
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    Lovely large size chook eggs. Black Leghorn. Fed on Maize seed mixed in with some pollard and bran. And, these being supplements, including handfulls of wheat grain with the accompanying "" here chook chook chook, here chook chook chook, and then turned out to peck around the vegetable garden and orchard. Those were the days with my mammy and pappy. Mum and Dad here in Australia. In my case Mum and Stepfather. My old Man never showed, so he owes my Mum child maintenance for 15 years. And me pocket money for feeding the chooks. westwind. Wot has this to do with the Thread? Well. eggs are good for thinking. I'm thinking about the Thread. westwind.
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    Northern Horse Whisperer Moderator scheherazade's Avatar
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    From the OP

    An understanding of the need for three levels of Middle Class Consumerism as against Rich and Poor.

    AND THE REALISATION that Adjustments will be necessary to get the basic underpinning right for a forward looking Economic Future.
    I received in the mail a notice from my credit card company that their customer rewards program was changing. To summarize, they were placing a cap on the amount of monthly purchases that they would offer their 1% cash return incentive on.

    However....

    If I qualified for a card upgrade, then I would also qualify for a 5% rebate for the first six months and beyond that it would revert to 2% but no limit on the amount of monthly purchases.

    The kicker being that my annual income needs to be $60,000 to 'qualify'. Needless to say, I don't qualify, lol....

    What a great way to keep the affluent in the lead by offering the wealthy incrementally better incentives than the rest of us peasants. Seems more like a disincentive to me.
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    The Enchanter westwind's Avatar
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    Dear scheherazade. Interpretation of ""The Wheel of Fortune "". is a good way of trying to understand the likelyhood of benefits for lower Income Workers and the disabled. In the Southern United States the Slave cotton workers would sing what was then termed Negro Spirituals while working in the noon day sun. Now, this suited Capital Investors in the Industry. A bit of noise in the Cotton Fields was preferable to discontent or asking for a higher wage.

    After that along came the Depression. Well, if the workers were given mouth organs and ukilalys(sic)mandolins, three string guitars, and rub-adub wash boards thaen that should keep them happy.

    There is an acceptance that priviliges and cash flow will always be out of reach for the majority of people. Crumbs off the Rich Mans table were worth fighting over.

    Superior beings are amongst us and we must give them due recognition. And let them distribute Largess.(sic).

    As I see it Capitalist Economys can be so manipulated that Constitutional Rights become just out of reach of the masses because the control of how money will be distributed to Wage Earners working in valid or invalid Industry ( creating situations always of National Interest, ie; Need for Armaments for defence, Law Enforcement, costly Space Exploration.

    These are the modern Mouth Organs Ukelalys Mandolines, 3 String Guitars. Keep the masses fiddling and jigging in the streets. Its good for them. They like it.

    Now, am I going to make a Socialist Judgement here.? Not really necessary to go that far. The Masses, me and you, would appreciate 5 string Guitars. In other words, Get our National Health Screening and Healing Systems in place. Tax the Wealthy to pay for this. No cost to Low Income people.

    Stop Extravagance in Home Building. Comfortable Homes with all amenities and small practical gardens are all that's required.

    Tax Homes over 22 Squares in Size. Heavy, prohibitive taxes.

    Lift up the Income for Minimum Wage earners. Heavy Taxation on CEO Payouts, Incomes over450.000 dollars, and Inheritance Money and Property.

    Do this and retail consumerism should grow creating more jobs. Give the people two Mouth Organs. westwind.
    ,
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  14. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by westwind View Post
    Dear scheherazade. Interpretation of ""The Wheel of Fortune "". is a good way of trying to understand the likelyhood of benefits for lower Income Workers and the disabled. In the Southern United States the Slave cotton workers would sing what was then termed Negro Spirituals while working in the noon day sun. Now, this suited Capital Investors in the Industry. A bit of noise in the Cotton Fields was preferable to discontent or asking for a higher wage.

    After that along came the Depression. Well, if the workers were given mouth organs and ukilalys(sic)mandolins, three string guitars, and rub-adub wash boards thaen that should keep them happy.

    There is an acceptance that priviliges and cash flow will always be out of reach for the majority of people. Crumbs off the Rich Mans table were worth fighting over.

    Superior beings are amongst us and we must give them due recognition. And let them distribute Largess.(sic).

    As I see it Capitalist Economys can be so manipulated that Constitutional Rights become just out of reach of the masses because the control of how money will be distributed to Wage Earners working in valid or invalid Industry ( creating situations always of National Interest, ie; Need for Armaments for defence, Law Enforcement, costly Space Exploration.

    These are the modern Mouth Organs Ukelalys Mandolines, 3 String Guitars. Keep the masses fiddling and jigging in the streets. Its good for them. They like it.

    Now, am I going to make a Socialist Judgement here.? Not really necessary to go that far. The Masses, me and you, would appreciate 5 string Guitars. In other words, Get our National Health Screening and Healing Systems in place. Tax the Wealthy to pay for this. No cost to Low Income people.

    Stop Extravagance in Home Building. Comfortable Homes with all amenities and small practical gardens are all that's required.

    Tax Homes over 22 Squares in Size. Heavy, prohibitive taxes.

    Lift up the Income for Minimum Wage earners. Heavy Taxation on CEO Payouts, Incomes over450.000 dollars, and Inheritance Money and Property.

    Do this and retail consumerism should grow creating more jobs. Give the people two Mouth Organs. westwind.
    ,
    Contrary to socialist beliefs, wages are not set by companies in a free market capitalist economy, they are set by the market place. Free Market Capitalism creates competition, and there will always be entrepreneurs in a free market that will pay as much as they can for workers. You see, there are things call profit margins and there are enough smart people to know that you can and will get the best workers, and thus the best products/goods and plenty of profits, by stealing your competitions best employees by paying them more.

    America used to be a place where the workers were the highest paid in the world, the products were the best but, the prices for those products were the cheapest or some of the cheapest. This is how free market capitalism works. What we have today is not capitalism or a free market. What we have today is a government controlled/ran economy based on buying and taking the worlds products and goods in return for fiat currency.
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  15. #14  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope sculptor's Avatar
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    22 squares?
    whazzat? (here, a square is 10 ft by 10 ft = 100 sq. ft.)
    I'm poor by any monitary definition of the term, but, I like to build(as well as sculpt), and ain't got enough customers to keep me occupied, so I build(and sculpt) for myself. And, as long as I can balance on my feet and hold tools in my hands, I'm gonna keep doing that.
    My wife's grandfather was much the same(he was also a communist untill the "new deal" whereupon, he told his commie friends---"We already got all that i wanted, and he quit the party, and lost all his friends there). He was a stone and brick mason and he kept building, and the town kept raising his property taxes, and he went to the town meeting and complained. The town council claimed that he was building and living in a mansion. He replied that he was building with mostly recycled material, and building all with his own two hands, ending his speech by saying, "OK, so I'm a pauper with a palace, but I still can't afford your taxes". He died before finishing his palace, and many years later, I went to Peekskill N.Y. with my wife and father in-law to visit his building. I was really impressed by his skill, planning, and artistic flair( pretty rocks added into brick walls, a balcony with recycled marble pillars, and a kitchen/dining/living "great room" with a stone fireplace, and random width pegged hardwood floors scribed to fit the stone within 1/16 inch-----an open kitchen design that was a generation ahead of it's time, and an oval entranceway with spiral concrete stair clinging as if by magic to the outside wall(with no railing)---
    My father-in-law had been forced to help his father build this structure during his youth, and had resented the activity, and not seen the beauty of it all.
    Later, he told me that watching me dash about the place with increasing awe and wonder, and marveling at one part after another with a deep appreciation for the excellent craftmanship, that he, seeing it through my eyes, finally began to appreciate what his father had built.

    For 3 years now, I've been building my greenhouse/solarium/solar collector addition and reroofing the house and studio with steel shingles. My studio(which I built from the ground up with my own 2 hands) has been given over to construction central, has 32 boxes of shingles stacked in the middle of it's floor, and, with a work taple lying on top of them, is the place where I cut and paint the shingles. Another 22 boxes are still stacked in the upper level of the greenhouse addition(which is above the garage), and I am just reaching the crest of the 12:12 roof over the main part of the house. When that's done. I have to remove the scaffolding for the 12:12, and finish of the intersecting 6:12 roofs of the main house, and 5:12 interface between the solarium and house. Then, I have to finish stripping the roofing from the studio roof that lies at the opposite end of the solarium......Remember Wayne's links to the noaa site wherein they were predicting a warmer than normal winter here? (god bless his rotting carcass, and if he has a soul, god bless that too).
    .......should I actually survive building this place, I'll have just under 7000 feet of solar heated, super-insulated living and work space under roofs.(over a third of which is shop and studio)...........so, by some viewpoints, I too will be a "pauper with a palace" and still not able to comfortably afford the taxes...

    Ain't life strange?
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    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    What a great way to keep the affluent in the lead by offering the wealthy incrementally better incentives than the rest of us peasants. Seems more like a disincentive to me.
    The only thing to do in these circumstances is to threaten to take your overdraft elsewhere.
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  17. #16  
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    as/re credid card purchases
    when I had my small installation company, I used to always ask for a cash discount, and always got one until the credit card companies got legislation passed to make that illegal in illinois. After much hard bargaining, I got one of my hardware suppliers to strike a new deal, which he thought nicely circumvented the law. He "hired" me as an agent, with a commission of 10%, so, I would give him $1,000.00 worth of cash receipts(from his store), and he would give("pay") me $100.00.

    I still always ask for a 10% discount on any purchase near or over $1,000.00, and usually get them, sometimes in "extra" "uncounted" merchandise. (eg: buy 10 sheets of plywood and pay for 9)............ when i find managers who will not bargain, I tend to avoid asking them, and shop my store managers as carefully as I shop my materials.

    Have you considered adding in "non-cash income"? (eg, if someone else would drive 500 miles and rent a boat to see the cliffs on the river just outside my back door, and pay for motels and meals, for a weekend cost of $1000.00, and I can just wander out the back door, walk down to the river, and launch a canoe or kayak--------that seems to be worth $1,000.00 based on what someone else would pay for the experience.... and if I do that 10 times a year...)
    If you think that wall street, and the banks, and the government play some really peculiar tricks with money as I do, then: I have always said, "when in rum do as the rummies do".
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    The Enchanter westwind's Avatar
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    I not only like this sculptor, I think it is brilliant. ( your poste 14 ).

    Yes, in my heart of hearts, I am a Builder too. The satisfaction derived from seeing a functional creation emerge from the thoughts in your mind and the application of your hands.

    Your Construction stands for one of your Personalities. Your Construction is being overseered by your Father-in-law. But it is in your Genetic Family that you will find the Architect and Builder. Somewhere back their a great Edifice emerged from one of your Anccestors.

    My gods give me strength and the where-with-all and I'd be on a Plane in a flash to come and see what you have done. And to recognise your Pride in Achievement.

    My son is a Builder, ( Home made ), he is currently a Tram Driver, that keeps him on the rails. But he has re-built his small home bit by bit for himself and his, now wife. He has a green thumb and shows up his dad at the end of each season. He has also re-built two GMH type cars, 1971 and 1972 Australian Holdens. And retro-fitted them Engine wise.

    What have I done? Well. Admin have credited me with the 30,000 Thread Posting. But it would be better if I was helping you with your shingles. And yes, a Square her in Australia is 10by 10. (Feet ). westwind.
    /
    Last edited by westwind; November 10th, 2012 at 12:27 PM. Reason: Response Poste.
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    Northern Horse Whisperer Moderator scheherazade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    What a great way to keep the affluent in the lead by offering the wealthy incrementally better incentives than the rest of us peasants. Seems more like a disincentive to me.
    The only thing to do in these circumstances is to threaten to take your overdraft elsewhere.
    LOL....The one time my account was in overdraft....EVER.....was when the bank took out a payment prematurely, their error. Twice I have been stuck for interest charges because the mail had issues and my cheque arrived late. Other than those three anomalies, I have no financial issues. We were taught not to spend money before you earn it. I have adequate assets, but not a huge cash flow and only a modest income.

    My personal financial advice to others is to avoid debt save for items that can act as their own collateral, especially avoid credit card debt. If you can't pay it off monthly, in full, ditch the damned albatross. A very simple strategy for I am a very simple creature.
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    Quote Originally Posted by westwind View Post
    Reason being there are two Election Type Threads currently running in Politics Forum and are being well supported by Members. I would like to have a philisophical input to the current American Scene and what the situation might be in the coming 4 years. As I have not contributed to the currently running ops in Politics Forum I think it would be a bit rude of me to start voicing anything now.

    All I'd like to add to the American Dream or concept of Democracy under the American Capital/ Shareholder/Lobbying of Senators/ States Rights Issues is an understanding of Profit Driven Production and Employment concepts.

    Away from Armaments, Away from Conflict Situations, into Research and Development of Food Production and Distribution of Goods and Services.

    Away from Shareholder Greed, Away from Political Wrangling because of isms and deep seated causes, Into a love of Country and Pride of Citizenship.

    An understanding of the need for three levels of Middle Class Consumerism as against Rich and Poor.

    AND THE REALISATION that Adjustments will be necessary to get the basic underpinning right for a forward looking Economic Future.

    Of course these are just words. Of course the will of the People must be listened to. But first these new concepts of tiered Middle Class functioning levels of economic stimulous and forward growth must be explained in simple terms and practical examples should be Media Driven.

    How to get everybody on board? Well, The USA understandPublicity, understand the power of Advertising. The American People can be persuaded.

    In the long run I personally believe this is where America must stabilise the Future. We may be looking at the next two Governments. Surely long term Economic Stability is in the best interests of Everybody?

    What credentials do I have to speak of Economies? As a young man I had a little training in ballancing a countries Budgetary Projections. westwind.




    Since Obama won, Americas deficits will go down, from GW Bush's spending. But Since Obama is not Clinton, America will still have deficits.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonzales56 View Post
    1. Conflict - It is by way and means of military force, power and threat that the United States sustains and maintains its current economic system and economy.

    2. Goods and Services - As long as other nations produce or do not interfere with the production of the things the United States wants, and the American people are allowed to consume those things by trading US dollars for them, then the United States government will not attack, threaten to attack or carry out acts of war against those nations/peoples.

    3. Economic Stability - Under the current global system, economic stability in relation to the west is only good for the United States and its allies.

    4. Balance between capital/savings and consumption - The United States government, today, functions solely by its ability to take from people in order to increase its own consumption. Likewise, the American people, today and for the most part, live and enjoy their life's because the american government and the economic system they created allows them to take from the rest of the world in order to consume and increase their own consumption.

    1. Conflict- is the way America expands its national debt, kills 1,000's of US troops, creates new terrorists, and recently killed 100,000+ innocent people.

    Instead of fight for oil, we could fight for solar and wind power. And we could greatly increase vehicle millage standards.

    2. Goods and services-

    What was the debt-to-GDP ratio, (you) said was OK for America to have?
    Was it 2,000% to GDP??

    Perhaps someone who says, an American Debt-to-GDP ratio of 2,000% is OK, should not be trusted in economics?
    And perhaps someone who respects America, killing 100,000 innocent people in Iraq, should not be speaking of war?

    Outside of economics and politics your the man, but not here.

    Chad.
    Last edited by chad; November 13th, 2012 at 05:17 PM.
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    It is not a matter of right or wrong chad. It is about knowing and understanding the economic system.

    In order to have a debt, something real has to be owed. What does the United States owe? Pieces of paper they print numbers and words on? That's not debt, that's theft. Big difference. The US protects its theft, not debt. The United States has no real debt to speak of.

    The fact that the U.S. "dollar" no longer represents anything of real value or fairness, and is only backed by guns, bombs and prison, does not mean it is something I agree with. What it does mean though is that there is not a lick of difference between democrats and republicans concerning this issue though.

    Why are the Iranian people suffering and dying by the 10s and 100s of thousands right now? Because Obama the democrat, and republicans, are doing what they have for decades, and that is protecting their theft / backing up and supporting the dollar with the only thing they can, which is suffering and death. They are constantly fighting this battle on many fronts.

    This is just the way it is.
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  23. #22  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard icewendigo's Avatar
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    "Contrary to socialist beliefs, wages are not set by companies in a free market capitalist economy, they are set by the market place. Free Market Capitalism creates competition, and there will always be entrepreneurs in a free market that will pay as much as they can for workers."
    When a company says take a 20% cut or else we move the plant to Mexico/Malasia, It doesnt sound like companies are outbidding themselves to pay as much as possible for workers. The workers say no they're out of a job and now have to compete with... If a company now opens up a production line in a private prison and pay inmates a cigarette a day will people want to out bid them on half a cigarette a day, and what will you buy with that half cigarette? will you afford to go to the local restaurant, will you afford a house, will the taxes paid on a half cigarette pay for schools, the police, roads, transit system, etc (Im exaggerating in order to make the point easy to understand). If a bank says alright, now with ATM machines it costs us 1$ a day to have people make transactions with machines, we were thinking of cutting 10 employees, but we will be generous, if you work for, lets say, a buck a day, we'll call it even. (But the bank wont do this, they will lay off he employees who will now have to underbid the half cigarette workers )

    (quick note, some of the most lavish vulgarly opulent Hotels Ive been to were in 3rd world countries, where a small minority of the population live a life of opulence with butlers, maids, etc, while the majority of the population lived in utter poverty, just as a reminder that somethings not automatically good if "some" are well off, you have to consider the whole and the majority, and of course, not the "average", since a small number of uber opulent can tilt stats to make the average hide the fact that there's a great deal poverty and deplorable waste of human potential)


    Btw, has anyone seen or heard about "Detropia"?
    Last edited by icewendigo; November 15th, 2012 at 04:38 PM.
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  24. #23  
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    Quote Originally Posted by icewendigo View Post
    "Contrary to socialist beliefs, wages are not set by companies in a free market capitalist economy, they are set by the market place. Free Market Capitalism creates competition, and there will always be entrepreneurs in a free market that will pay as much as they can for workers."
    When a company says take a 20% cut or else we move the plant to Mexico/Malasia, It doesnt sound like companies are outbidding themselves to pay as much as possible for workers. The workers say no they're out of a job and now have to compete with... If a company now opens up a production line in a private prison and pay inmates a cigarette a day will people want to out bid them on half a cigarette a day, and what will you buy with that half cigarette? will you afford to go to the local restaurant, will you afford a house, will the taxes paid on a half cigarette pay for schools, the police, roads, transit system, etc (Im exaggerating in order to make the point easy to understand). If a bank says alright, now with ATM machines it costs us 1$ a day to have people make transactions with machines, we were thinking of cutting 10 employees, but we will be generous, if you work for, lets say, a buck a day, we'll call it even. (But the bank wont do this, they will lay off he employees who will now have to underbid the half cigarette workers )

    (quick note, some of the most lavish vulgarly opulent Hotels Ive been to were in 3rd world countries, where a small minority of the population live a life of opulence with butlers, maids, etc, while the majority of the population lived in utter poverty, just as a reminder that somethings not automatically good if "some" are well off, you have to consider the whole and the majority, and of course, not the "average", since a small number of uber opulent can tilt stats to make the average hide the fact that there's a great deal poverty and deplorable waste of human potential)


    Btw, has anyone seen or heard about "Detropia"?
    And your points are exactly why I advocate for a return to a free capitalist market instead of the government ran consumption/theft/manipulated market and economy we have now, which has led to and is the cause of the problems you speak of.

    Concerning car manufacturers, Henry Ford would not have been able to start his company in the United States if he tried to start it in this type of government controlled economy, and if it were possible to transport him and his company to today's market, he would move his plants and production out of America as fast as he could.
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