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Thread: How Peacefulness Affects American Economy

  1. #1 How Peacefulness Affects American Economy 
    IEP
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    The Institute for Economics and Peace released 2012 U.S. Peace Index in April.
    You can see the result here.

    According to the index, the cost of violence in the country is $3,257 for each tax payer.
    Also, if every state was as peaceful as Maine (the #1 peaceful state as stated by the index), the total economic effect would be $274 billion, which would possibly generate over 1.7 million jobs.

    I think it's interesting to see economy and peacefulness in the country together, and measure the cost.


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    Last edited by icewendigo; May 11th, 2012 at 08:48 AM.
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  4. #3  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope sculptor's Avatar
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    peace?
    what is it and when do you think we've had it?
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    I have a couple problem with their matric. For example small arms, why is that an indicator of peacefulness? The most peaceful state, Maine (my home state) is full of guns; and many of its citizens so independent most deterent events don't get reported. Incarceration is another, almost half of our prison populations in the US are for victimless crimes--such as smoking a joint. Considering that's probably a big factor for the dollars spent--that would badly skew the numbers.
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  6. #5  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope sculptor's Avatar
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    2,268,800 inmates in us prisons and jails at about $30,000 per inmate = 68 billion dollars annually
    1/2 in for non violent crimes
    what would you do with $34,000,000,000 dollars if we sent the non-violent 1/2 of them home?
    your tax dollar at work
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  7. #6  
    Time Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by IEP View Post
    <br>
    Also, if every state was as peaceful as Maine (the #1 peaceful state as stated by the index), the total economic effect would be $274 billion, which would possibly generate over 1.7 million jobs. <br>
    <br>
    .
    <br>
    <br>
    Spending it on violence also generates jobs. Indeed, it is more likely that if we didn't spend it on violence, those people would simply be unemployed. It's one of the least skilled forms of work available that still carries a reasonable amount of prestige. Those same people would have to work in construction, or mining, or fast food which would overcrowd those job markets and drive down their wages. <br>
    <br>
    I would say they could work in manufacturing, but...... with few exceptions, the growth potential for that industry is almost zero inside the USA now. Any funds freed up by firing police would be spent buying foreign made goods, which bolsters retail, shipping, and advertising, but otherwise does little or nothing to improve our own economy.
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    Peace time definitely has its advantages but its too early for talks of peace. Only when every country can overcome its biases and live in peace will we ever truly flourish. In Ancient India, for example, a whole wonderful civilization was destroyed because they could not defend themselves against onslaughts of invaders. The history of mankind has many similar tragedies. We too, have come too far to let our guard down, especially in a time when one bomb could destroy whole portions of the planet. Perhaps one day in a very distant time, inhabitants of earth will find its equilibrium and peace will abound. Think of all the extra funds that if diverted towards education or space travel or ingenuity would allow us to solve many problems and learn about the world. Many minds working on a plethora of theories could really increase our understanding of the earth. There is no definite hope for peace unless each country can sufficiently maintain itself without the want of another countries resources. Greed always seems to override peace.
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  9. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brisk View Post
    Peace time definitely has its advantages but its too early for talks of peace. Only when every country can overcome its biases and live in peace will we ever truly flourish.
    It's not just biases. It's underemployment too. If you can't find a decent job for a large number of your citizens, then you must either employ them as soldiers (the job of last resort for society), or you can expect that they will employ themselves as criminals (the only job that remains when society doesn't provide one).

    Once you've hired them to be soldiers, you either must endure continual cognitive dissonance (pretending their job is useful, but having no intention of making any use whatsoever of their services), or invent a use for them. Most people don't handle cognitive dissonance very well, so eventually some kind of war is found for them to fight.




    In Ancient India, for example, a whole wonderful civilization was destroyed because they could not defend themselves against onslaughts of invaders. The history of mankind has many similar tragedies. We too, have come too far to let our guard down, especially in a time when one bomb could destroy whole portions of the planet. Perhaps one day in a very distant time, inhabitants of earth will find its equilibrium and peace will abound. Think of all the extra funds that if diverted towards education or space travel or ingenuity would allow us to solve many problems and learn about the world. Many minds working on a plethora of theories could really increase our understanding of the earth.
    It's not about the funds. Funds are a representation of resources. Each dollar maps to a good or service somewhere in your economy. The problem is when you can't find a use for all of your resources, most importantly labor. Labor is a unique resource in that you cannot simply discard it if you don't need it. You HAVE to find a use for it, or it will find a use for itself (one we don't want.)

    Freeing up useless labor does nothing for us. We might as well dedicate it all to a senseless war, so it goes away. Either that, or we have to try and find a way to make it useful.

    Trouble is, most of the people we can't find jobs for aren't exactly rocket scientists. Diverting their efforts toward education or space travel or ingenuity is not going to make a huge difference to any of those pursuits.



    There is no definite hope for peace unless each country can sufficiently maintain itself without the want of another countries resources. Greed always seems to override peace.
    Here's where modern tech becomes problematic. Everything the industrial age gives us comes at the cost of a need for higher per capita resource consumption in order to achieve those benefits. As the third world modernizes, those resources will become scarce, and first world economies will have to do with less and less.
    Some clocks are only right twice a day, but they are still right when they are right.
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  10. #9  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope sculptor's Avatar
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    someone once said
    "sailors duke it out with their fists, admirals use battleships"

    every war breeds the next war
    resentments build through the generations

    war ain't no good way out of an economic depression, but it does do that job effectively------if you don't mind a bunch of half crazed veterans wandering about looking to something they lost

    as long as there is a part of the population that want much much much more than anyone needs, they will always seek the power to get their infinite appetites satisfied.
    but like the morbidly obese, those appetites will never be sated

    personally, I ain't gonna play at war no more nor raise my children to engage in such folly, nor glorify the sickening waste. If our political leaders were expected to lead their troops into battle, i kinda think there'd a lot less of that.

    Kojax: I really like your "The crazy... and have used it with/for some of my friends and family, and the occasional stranger----thanx
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    I like to call it "ignorant bliss".
    With bravery and recognition that we are harbingers of our destiny and with a paragon of virtue.
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  12. #11  
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    Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who do not.
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  13. #12  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who do not.
    Very insightful. And it perfectly sums up the reason so much of the third world and Mexico is so borked. Too many sword carriers and not enough plow carriers.

    But in the USA, the farmers are armed. A plow in one hand, and a sword in the other. As it should be.
    Some clocks are only right twice a day, but they are still right when they are right.
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