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Thread: Golde Ratio

  1. #1 Golde Ratio 
    Forum Ph.D.
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    Im sure this has come up before, but can anyone give me an article on the scientific explanation f the golden ratio, I need it to potentially argue against a creationist who may use it as an assertion for intelligent design.


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  3. #2  
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    Probably the best anti-creation fodder site. I don't think it has anything about the golden ratio though

    http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/list.html


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  4. #3  
    Forum Professor sunshinewarrior's Avatar
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    Start with Fibonacci on wiki, and having read that, click through to links on Fibonacci number and golden ratio. Could help you understand and hence explain the various ways in which these matters are connected. FWIW, some notes (unreferenced so you may have to look it up before believing it!):

    1. A Net based study using pictures cropped in various ways showed no definite preference for the golden ratio

    2. The reason why numbers from the Fibonacci sequence pop up in nature's spirals (at least in Sunflowers and so on) is because the ratio on which it is based (square root of 5 etc) creates one of the 'most irrational' of irrational numbers. Actually, if Serpico etc have the time, perhaps they could explain what it means for a number to be 'more irrational' than another. Particularly since it's not a transcendental number.

    3. Look up Kaufamn and co (At home in the universe et al). They point out how natural selection is clever enough to use naturally forming patterns/self-organising mechanisms, and therefore could easily have picked up on the utility of the Golden Ratio etc.

    4. Don't be fooled by Dan Brown or the other nonsense regarding human proportions and the Vitruvian man - we cannot measure huamn proportions that precisely, so we could easily have chosen the less mystic sounding number 8/5 to represent them and you would not be able to tell it's wrong.

    cheer

    shanks
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  5. #4  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard paralith's Avatar
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    To add to shanks' point number 3, I would like to mention that a spiral formation of seeds in a flower or pine cone that roughly approximates the Fibonacci sequence allows plants to pack the most seeds in the smallest amount of space. Similarly, a roughly Fibonacci spiral pattern of leaves along the length of a plant stem helps to prevent leaves higher on the stem from overly shading leaves lower on the stem. The pattern is adaptive - it gives a functional advantage to the plant. It is not simply an arbitrary pattern throw on them by a designer.
    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
    ~Jean-Paul Sartre
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