Thread: human hybrids?

could there be such a thing as a human-monkey hybrid?

i heard a story about it somewhere...

I heard about this on the history channel, through monstor quest. I believe that it is highly unlikely, and that our reproductive systems with other primates are too different to form hybrids. But, I am not one to experiment with it, although i'm sure there are some really sick freaks out there that have had sex with non-human animals.

Idont think that can happen as the chromosomal number is different in other primates.

Originally Posted by Robbie

Idont think that can happen as the chromosomal number is different in other primates.

Yeah, and that's a big part of it. As far as I understand it, if the chromosome numbers are different there isn't really a chance of hybridization.

In a lab, there's a good chance of it. In nature, there's almost 0 chance of it.

Idont think that can happen as the chromosomal number is different in other primates.

Horse and zebras have very different number of chromosomes yet they can reproduce together

It's not known whether it's possible for humans and chimapanzees to produce a live offspring though. Think of the ethics of this issue if a chimp-monkey hybrid was actually born.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanzee

but cannot produce offspring that is fertile allegedly.

I think the number of chromosomes is only a problem in germ cell production; after all, people are sometimes born with an extra chromosome 21 (Down syndrome) due to a nondisjunction in either the egg or the sperm meiosis.

Originally Posted by NeptuneCircle

i'm sure there are some really sick freaks out there that have had sex with non-human animals.

Yes, you can count on the internet for all kinds of animal research.

Did you not see that documentary where people were actually marrying their pets, like that bloke on the Springer show marrying his horse!??

A while back in the UK there was a funny incident where a packed train had to stop and some guy was caught by all the occupants with his trousers down in a field with a sheep!!

Bestiality has been recorded from way back and been found on Ancient Roman and Greek pottery.

Ay there's nowt as strange as folk.

I'm glad i'm a simple creature for all i prefer is that Beast called man!

putting the Springer Show aside...
are there any specialists or just intellectual minds here that would be interested in attempting to "mesh" a human with an animal? Not breeding humans with animals, but having animal features given to a human. For example: can a human be given the acute senses of a wolf? Is there any real scientific method of doing this?
If it is a waste of your time to answer this question (i.e. you find it a ridiculous proposal), then I won't be offended.
I do not consider myself of the intellectual societal group but the idealistic one, so if you do have some information on this then please dumb it down for me.

Thank you

Originally Posted by canislupus10

putting the Springer Show aside...
are there any specialists or just intellectual minds here that would be interested in attempting to "mesh" a human with an animal? Not breeding humans with animals, but having animal features given to a human. For example: can a human be given the acute senses of a wolf? Is there any real scientific method of doing this?
If it is a waste of your time to answer this question (i.e. you find it a ridiculous proposal), then I won't be offended.
I do not consider myself of the intellectual societal group but the idealistic one, so if you do have some information on this then please dumb it down for me.

Thank you

I'm sure there's a way of fusing DNA or Genes to isolate particular qualities.

They do it all the time with different breeds of animals, dogs for example, and it's common in horticulture.

But is it ethical? And what's the point?

I'm no expert here though, just speculating.

Paralith will know

SHOUTS ACROSS THE ATLANTIC 'Come on Paralith where are you when we need you?'

I see that my presence has been requested, lol

Originally Posted by canislupus10

For example: can a human be given the acute senses of a wolf? Is there any real scientific method of doing this?

Hi there canislupus. There are most certainly methods of inserting foreign genes into an organism; I myself work with mice transgenic for a gene that we think is related to a type of muscular dystrophy. By observing the effect of this gene's expression on mice we hope to learn more about this disease.

However, "the acute senses of a wolf" are not determined by any single gene, but by a broad suite of genes related to the development of the eyes, the nose, and the areas of the brain that interpret sight and scent information. And even if we isolated the genes primarily responsible for the wolf's greater sensitivity to sight and smell, simply sticking them into a human is no guarantee that they will elevate our own senses of sight and smell.

Wolf genes, in order to function as they evolved in the wolf, need to interact with other genes in the wolf's genome - for example, the genes that determine the shape of the nasal cavity and by extension the general shape of the face. It would probably be necessary to increase the cavity size in humans in order to make room for more scent receptors, which would in turn require adjustments in other areas of the face. There may also be important positional effects (i.e. which area of the chromosome are these genes typically found), and as far as I know there aren't yet any reliable methods to insert a gene in an organism's genome in exactly the right place. Other genes may require a specific kind of environmental interaction.

Accurately making all these complex changes in a human is not yet within the scope of scientific technology. First and foremost we would need to understand the entirety of the genetic mechanisms that confer these abilities on wolves, and at this point that task alone is a very difficult one. I have little doubt that one day in the future we will have the ability to shape and sculpt our genes in a variety of ways, but that point is still very, very far away.

Thankyou for your quick responses.
If there were a method of becomming physically wolf-like that showed promise, even if it required radical reconstructive surgery as you alluded to, I would be the guinea pig - perhaps I am in the wrong forum

I appreciate the info on genes as well, and although sadened by your last few words "very, very far away" I am wondering if you could point me in the direction of someone who has done extensive research in this particular field. You said you switch genes with mice, which are extremely similar to humans, differing primarily in the position of their genes. So if it is possible in mice, with some great effort, it may be possible with humans sooner rather than later.

To the question:Is it ethical? That depends on your code of ethics; mine rules yes, anything that will significantly enhance the human race is worth the sacrifices it may call for.

thanks again, and any further info either of you or anyone else has would be greatly appreciated
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canis, what I was talking about involved the insertion of these foreign genes into an embryo, so that all the proper changes would occur together during development. For this there are very obvious ethical implications, as the resulting human hybrid would have had no choice in the matter.

For what you are thinking of, being the extensive alteration of your adult body, you can add another "very" or two to that time estimate I gave you. To alter an already adult organism is a whole new layer of difficulty. Just think about what it would take to reorganize your existing brain structure in order to allow it to properly understand all the scent information that a wolf brain can puzzle out.

If you want to learn more about making changes in humans do some research on gene therapy. The beginnings of this technology are spreading, and this is where you should look. I also advise you to reconsider the "extreme" similarity of mice and humans. Mice are different from humans not just in the position of their genes but largely in the actual sequences of the genes. There is a reason that drug tests done in mice can't go directly to market. Extensive human trials have to be done first because humans and mice are different in many ways. Mice are convenient testing animals due to their size and easy care. This is primarily why they are the preferred testing mammal.

I agree that enhancing the human race is in general a good idea, but exactly what you mean by the "enhance" is a pivotal point. Is increasing our scent ability really going to increase the average human quality of life? I rather doubt it, especially considering the changes to one's appearance that would probably be required. I have nothing against making these changes as a voluntary, cosmetic choice, but in my opinion your particular example is not a goal that science should focus its efforts on.

I see your point, and I agree, science should not focus on reinventing the human body to meet cosmetic fetishes. The scent enhancement was an example of animal abilities humans lack.
My reasons for these questions, I will admit are purely selfish. I do not expect that having 200 million smell receptors as opposed to 5 million will "benefit" the human race, in fact it may cause unforseen problems. I want this for myself.
When I said, "I would be the guinea pig" I meant I WANT to be the guinea pig. I do not wish to subject any unborn creatures to an experiment they did not wish to partake in.
I disagree that the means by which to make an extensive transformation are far off, however, as successful surgeries have already been completed in adult humans whereby pig and cow heart valves have replaced failed human heart valves. Granted the anatomies share commonalities making the surgery possible, but if it can be done with one organ, why not all organs?
The bottom line for me is this: I feel like something different than what I am, so I want to become that which I feel I am. I know already what you are thinking, and that's why I said perhaps I should be in a different forum, haha, but if you knew my frustration maybe you could understand, as a man of science, why I would want to take such a radical step.
Thankyou for suggesting gene therapy, I will definitely look into it, you have been a great help.

Canis, to become wolf-like in more than superficial appearance and beyond the replacement of a valve or two is, in fact, as far off as I say. We cannot just re-wire an adult human brain however we want. You can't just upgrade your eyes or your nose or your metabolism without making appropriate changes to the nerve center that controls all these things. I say again, you can cosmetically change your appearance today and in the near future, but to go much deeper than that is far beyond our current technology's reach. As a woman of science, I say this with a good deal of certainty.

I've known several other people who are part of the same subculture of thought (trying to stay PC here) as you. My specialty is animal behavior, and I just find it interesting that you and others like you say that you feel more like a canine than you feel like a primate; but how in the world do you know what it feels like to be a canine? Your mind is far more complex and aware than any canine's mind ever was. Even science has difficulty clearly defining what an animal mind experiences. I know it would be fun to be faster and stronger and to smell and see better than other people, but why necessarily relate this desire to feeling like you are of a different animal species than the one you are? I mean no offense, I'm just truly curious.

Poking my nose in here. I have read that in 1998, a cleaned cow egg was implanted with leg cells and was later destroyed due to ethical issues surrounding human cloning. I certaintly don't believe that a 'cow-man' would have been created, but is the chemical makeup of egg cells constant throughout mammalia? That is, would implanting a cow egg with human cells have had any noticable effect on the resulting embryo?

Originally Posted by Frenchi

Poking my nose in here. I have read that in 1998, a cleaned cow egg was implanted with leg cells and was later destroyed due to ethical issues surrounding human cloning. I certaintly don't believe that a 'cow-man' would have been created, but is the chemical makeup of egg cells constant throughout mammalia? That is, would implanting a cow egg with human cells have had any noticable effect on the resulting embryo?

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by chemical makeup, but the egg of every species contains all the genetic information required to build that organism, which of course is specific to that species. If you just throw some cells of another species in there it's hard to predict exactly what will happen, but I imagine the conflicting developmental paths will in most cases cause the embryo to die before birth.

Originally Posted by paralith

Originally Posted by Frenchi

Poking my nose in here. I have read that in 1998, a cleaned cow egg was implanted with leg cells and was later destroyed due to ethical issues surrounding human cloning. I certaintly don't believe that a 'cow-man' would have been created, but is the chemical makeup of egg cells constant throughout mammalia? That is, would implanting a cow egg with human cells have had any noticable effect on the resulting embryo?

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by chemical makeup, but the egg of every species contains all the genetic information required to build that organism, which of course is specific to that species. If you just throw some cells of another species in there it's hard to predict exactly what will happen, but I imagine the conflicting developmental paths will in most cases cause the embryo to die before birth.

There have been some experiments with frogs and newts that resulted in chimera organisms, but I don't think the morphagens and other RNA components of the cow embryo would be sufficient to produce human cells.