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Thread: Genetic modification of animals and humans. Cloning.

  1. #1 Genetic modification of animals and humans. Cloning. 
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    Hello.

    Im new here. My name is Eskander, 17 years old, Science student, from Sweden.

    Cloning opens the way for many possibilities. Especially in medicine but even for provisions-market(food-market). But some people think that cloning is wrong and its against nature.

    Question:
    1. Shall we allow/continue cloning of animals and human? why?
    2. Dont you think that cloning is against the nature? Maybe something goes wrong and we destroy all the pigs or another animal.




    Thank you.
    /Eskander


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    Sorry pal, we don't do homework, but if you tell us what progress you have towards answering these questions yourself we can coax you towards the right approach..


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    To elaborate on what Megabrain said, we will not give you answers to your homework questions. Write your own answers, show them to us, and we'll tell you what we think.
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  5. #4  
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    Of course, I should have written my opinion first: I think that everything must have a max level. Now, we have the knowledge of cloning a human but we can NOT let researchers to do whatever they want with cloning. Science is not always good. It can easily destroy our world. (an example: Atomic Bomb) But there are also good sides of science, like medicine.
    Back to cloning, I think that cloning a new human or an organ is wrong and should not be allowed. Why should we even clone a human being? there is no need. But what about people that cant have babies? what about them? well, human lived for more than 200 000 years and there were many many people who hadnt a child and nothing happened. This is how the world is. There are some thing that we must not change them and live with them as they are.
    But I totally agree with the cloning of sicknesses and organs: Many researchers are working for treatments of some sicknesses like diabetes, cancer, aids, Parkinson. There are many people who has these very dangerous diseases and I cant understand why the government in many countries forbid the cloning and they do not let the researchers to work on cloning and maybe being able to find a treatment.


    Cloning of animals:
    I think cloning is ok ONLY for "cows, pigs, chickens, sheeps", not other animals and not fishes. Fishes are very small and kinda "out of control" and it may happen that a fish escapes to the ocean and infect other fishes. What will happen next? well, maybe in 100 years or more there wont be any fish in our oceans.

    summary:
    cloning of animals: It is ok just for cows, pigs, chickens and sheeps
    cloning of humans: no, Should stay forbidden
    cloning of organs and sicknesses: Should be allowed.

    Done.
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  6. #5  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eskander
    Of course, I should have written my opinion first: I think that everything must have a max level. Now, we have the knowledge of cloning a human but we can NOT let researchers to do whatever they want with cloning. Science is not always good. It can easily destroy our world. (an example: Atomic Bomb) But there are also good sides of science, like medicine.
    Gosh, you make it sound like researchers would make their own clone army and take over the world if left to themselves, haha. What bad things do you think researchers might do with cloning?

    Also, science is not good or bad. Science is a process of accumulating knowledge. It is people that are good or bad, and that can take the knowledge of science and use it for ill or well intended purposes. I ask again, what exactly about cloning do you think could be so bad?

    Back to cloning, I think that cloning a new human or an organ is wrong and should not be allowed. Why should we even clone a human being? there is no need. But what about people that cant have babies? what about them? well, human lived for more than 200 000 years and there were many many people who hadnt a child and nothing happened. This is how the world is. There are some thing that we must not change them and live with them as they are.
    I disagree that this is something "we must not change." It is only natural that a person desiring to have children would want to raise offspring that shares their genes. Evolution has favored this desire ever since life arose. It is probably better for the world at large if such people instead adopted other children in need, but their desire for children of their own blood is understandable.

    But I totally agree with the cloning of sicknesses and organs: Many researchers are working for treatments of some sicknesses like diabetes, cancer, aids, Parkinson. There are many people who has these very dangerous diseases and I cant understand why the government in many countries forbid the cloning and they do not let the researchers to work on cloning and maybe being able to find a treatment.
    In addition, people who need heart and liver and other organ transplants usually have to wait a very long time, and often die, before an organ from a person of the right blood type become available. And even with the right blood type, the risk of rejection is still there. The same goes for cancer patients who need bone marrow treatments - sometimes not even family members have the right characteristics to become donors. In these cases, cloning an organ from that person's DNA could save their life.

    Cloning of animals:
    I think cloning is ok ONLY for "cows, pigs, chickens, sheeps", not other animals and not fishes. Fishes are very small and kinda "out of control" and it may happen that a fish escapes to the ocean and infect other fishes. What will happen next? well, maybe in 100 years or more there wont be any fish in our oceans.
    What about endangered species? Clones may not be a final solution, since they don't add to genetic variation needed to maintain a healthy population, but they could help extend the life of a species until better solutions are found.

    I think you might misunderstand cloning if you think cloned fish can "infect" other fish. What might happen is that cloned fish, if let out into the wild, might out-compete wild fish, and drive them to extinction; however, this is assuming that the cloned fish are augmented in some way that makes them better competitors. This is less likely than the introduction of foreign fish into an environment where they take over from the native fish; this is more common and is very dangerous for the native species.

    Also, though they're not small, pigs can also quite easily escape from captivity and roam free in the wild. They're the smartest of all the livestock animals and most countries these days have populations of domestic-gone-wild-pigs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eskander
    Of course, I should have written my opinion first: I think that everything must have a max level. Now, we have the knowledge of cloning a human but we can NOT let researchers to do whatever they want with cloning. Science is not always good. It can easily destroy our world. (an example: Atomic Bomb) But there are also good sides of science, like medicine.
    Even things the bad things in science have eventually had great benefits to the standard of human living. You gave the example of the Atomic bomb, many advancments in science from the discovery e.g Radio-isotopes to find cancers in the body and such, treatments for cancer and nuclear power.

    Back to cloning, I think that cloning a new human or an organ is wrong and should not be allowed. Why should we even clone a human being? there is no need. But what about people that cant have babies? what about them? well, human lived for more than 200 000 years and there were many many people who hadnt a child and nothing happened. This is how the world is. There are some thing that we must not change them and live with them as they are.
    By any chance are you religous? this seems to be very theistically based.
    what if reserch into cloning causes other advancments into medical science? such as genetic diseases? have you then not prevented these people from living should you not be tried for murder?
    What gives you the right to play God? deciding that because people cannot have a child they are not worthy.

    Cloning of animals:
    I think cloning is ok ONLY for "cows, pigs, chickens, sheeps", not other animals and not fishes. Fishes are very small and kinda "out of control" and it may happen that a fish escapes to the ocean and infect other fishes. What will happen next? well, maybe in 100 years or more there wont be any fish in our oceans.
    and what if a pig escapes, sh*ts and fly comes along and dies on the new SUPER-POO? you can't controll everything... so why be picky
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    Just a quick note on the ''infection'' statement. It's a common misnomer with genetics (foods most particularly) to believe that if ''X'' has been genetically engineered, there is a chance that it could cause ''X'' inside a human to change. This is not the case. I cannot think of a decent analogy right now but basically there's no chance of genetic super mutants/diseases (sorry Hollywood!). The possibility of a virus although...that's something else.

    Barry
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  9. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Flannery
    Just a quick note on the ''infection'' statement. It's a common misnomer with genetics (foods most particularly) to believe that if ''X'' has been genetically engineered, there is a chance that it could cause ''X'' inside a human to change. This is not the case. I cannot think of a decent analogy right now but basically there's no chance of genetic super mutants/diseases (sorry Hollywood!). The possibility of a virus although...that's something else.

    Barry
    If this is aimed at me and my SUPER-POO then I guess my example was a little extreme. I know that new infection cannot be caused by a clone.
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  10. #9  
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    Nevyn,

    Not at all!!!

    Cloning of animals:
    I think cloning is ok ONLY for "cows, pigs, chickens, sheeps", not other animals and not fishes. Fishes are very small and kinda "out of control" and it may happen that a fish escapes to the ocean and infect other fishes. What will happen next? well, maybe in 100 years or more there wont be any fish in our oceans.
    Was the intended quote.

    Barry
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  11. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Flannery
    Nevyn,

    Not at all!!!

    Cloning of animals:
    I think cloning is ok ONLY for "cows, pigs, chickens, sheeps", not other animals and not fishes. Fishes are very small and kinda "out of control" and it may happen that a fish escapes to the ocean and infect other fishes. What will happen next? well, maybe in 100 years or more there wont be any fish in our oceans.
    Was the intended quote.

    Barry
    fair enough down with CTD's
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  12. #11  
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    I'm strongly against cloning. I've had to kill two clones of myself already that came for me... Damn you scientists, leave me alone!!!
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  13. #12  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eskander
    Of course, I should have written my opinion first: I think that everything must have a max level. Now, we have the knowledge of cloning a human but we can NOT let researchers to do whatever they want with cloning. Science is not always good. It can easily destroy our world. (an example: Atomic Bomb) But there are also good sides of science, like medicine.
    It's the medical people who are keen on cloning.
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    I'm going to clone an army of myself to take over the world! Bwhahaha!!
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  15. #14  
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    Cloning is the opposite of genetically modifying btw. (referring to the title)
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    Oh my god. I have to say this right now: The more I learn, the more I realize how little I know! I learned many new thing. This forum is awesome.

    In reply to paralith

    Listen, We have to have a limitation in everything. We even limit where we live. We have a wall which separates our house from the others. This is a limit. We cant live without limitation. so there must be also a limitation for scientist and researchers. They cant do what ever they want. Bad thing can always happen even when you think you have everything in controll.
    a funny example: what if a scientist clone Osama bin Ladan and make 12 of osamas. LOL???
    Cloning of a human is wrong in my opinion.
    Because the nature is that you have to have sexual intercourses and LOVE with your wife, and then having a baby. Baby is the result of Love. Why should we clone humans? And by the way Who wants to have an identical copy of him self as a child? Do you?



    Correct me if Im wrong! Thank you!

    Cloning is the opposite of genetically modifying btw. (referring to the title)
    Wrong title I guess, But I have written cloning at the very end of the title.

    Thanks,

    /Eskander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happydude
    I'm strongly against cloning. I've had to kill two clones of myself already that came for me... Damn you scientists, leave me alone!!!
    Cloning of animals and organs are good. But not cloning a human.



    I'm going to clone an army of myself to take over the world! Twisted Evil Bwhahaha!! Twisted Evil
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  18. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eskander
    Listen, We have to have a limitation in everything. We even limit where we live. We have a wall which separates our house from the others. This is a limit. We cant live without limitation. so there must be also a limitation for scientist and researchers. They cant do what ever they want. Bad thing can always happen even when you think you have everything in controll.
    a funny example: what if a scientist clone Osama bin Ladan and make 12 of osamas. LOL???
    Cloning of a human is wrong in my opinion.
    Because the nature is that you have to have sexual intercourses and LOVE with your wife, and then having a baby. Baby is the result of Love. Why should we clone humans? And by the way Who wants to have an identical copy of him self as a child? Do you?
    Cloning creates a genetic copy. However, when it comes to complex organisms like humans, a large part of their development is determined by their environment. If a clone of Osama bin Laden was born and raised in the United States by a liberal democracy loving family, that clone would not become the terrorist that the Osama bin Laden we know is. There would certainly be similarities, but the clone would not be exactly like the current Osama bin Laden in every way. The same goes for a clone of yourself - definitely very similar to you, but raised in a different environment with whole different experiences, would not become the exact same person as you.

    I can understand you worrying about bad things being done by scientists will little moral fortitude. But I asked you, about cloning specifically: what are you worried about? I'm simply curious as to some examples of what you think could go horribly wrong with human cloning?
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  19. #18  
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    Not horribly wrong but wrong!
    ex: Maybe a very rich person(Alexander) pays a scientist to create three copies of himself. This mr Alexander is a very very big and famous mafia in Sicily. Alexander will teach those three guys everything about mafia. He will teach them everything and make them real pro´s . And since they are like each other they are able to do some tricks. For example if one of them got killed, the other three guys are still able to continue the business with the partners and continue their job.

    I will find a better example later. But answer this question:
    Why should we clone human?

    as I said before, Cloning of a human is wrong in my opinion.
    Because the nature is that you have to have sexual intercourses and LOVE with your wife, and then having a baby. Baby is the result of Love.

    /eskander
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  20. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eskander
    Not horribly wrong but wrong!
    ex: Maybe a very rich person(Alexander) pays a scientist to create three copies of himself. This mr Alexander is a very very big and famous mafia in Sicily. Alexander will teach those three persons things about mafia and stealing and etc. He will teach them everything and make them real pro´s . And since they are like each other. and for example if one of them get killed the other three are able to continue the business with the partners and continue their job.
    And why couldn't Mr. Mafia just beget his own sons and train them to become real pro's and to carry out his business? Or not even his sons, but the most promising amongst his underlings? That would be much, much cheaper than paying someone to make clones of himself.

    I will find a better example later. But answer this question:
    Why should we clone human?
    I'll be honest and say I can't think of any good reasons to generate a completely cloned human being - and I doubt that most scientists would either. Cloning technology is more beneficial for research and practical application when used to selectively create cells or organs or livestock animals - even when it comes to research, a completely cloned human wouldn't be much better than a normal human, as the ethics laws that are involved with human research would prevent any scientist from doing to clone what they wouldn't do to a normal human.

    What you seem to be worried about is bad scientists, such as the one being paid by Mr. Mafia in your example, would use cloning technology towards ill ends. And perhaps they would. But the only way to 100% prevent this is to make NO more advances in cloning technology, which would be extremely harmful to the advance of research and medicine. I think the benefits of advancing cloning technology are worth the risk of someone trying to make themselves a clone army of humans. Even the idea of a "clone army" is rather ridiculous. Exact human clones would be like humans, and who's to say that each individual clone would want to be a part of your army. If you want to have zombie-like humans obeying your every command, you're creating modified humans, not cloned humans.

    as I said before, Cloning of a human is wrong in my opinion.
    Because the nature is that you have to have sexual intercourses and LOVE with your wife, and then having a baby. Baby is the result of Love.

    /eskander
    Are you saying an adopted child, that was not created between the loving man and woman who now raise it, cannot be representative of the love between them? The desire to raise a child with your partner in life is also a result of love, no matter where that child came from. And what about children fathered by sperm donors? There was no loving sexual intercourse involved there, but the mother no doubt desires and loves her baby. By your logic, since these children did not come to their parents through intercourse between their parents, they are unnatural and it is therefore wrong that the practices of adoption and artificial semination ever take place.
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  21. #20  
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    Why would cloning animals be ethical, but cloning humans not? If it's a game of ethics of what's playing God and what's not, I'd assume they'd relate to biblical standing that the blood is so tightly related to the "soul" that it's wrong to consume or tinker around with. If this is in fact what you're talking about, then, I'd say cloning animals would be technically just as immoral.

    If the ethical stand you feel on the topic roots from something else, then out of pure curiosity, why is a human clone walking about such a horrible idea if an animal clone is not so bad?
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  22. #21  
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    Are you saying an adopted child, that was not created between the loving man and woman who now raise it, cannot be representative of the love between them? The desire to raise a child with your partner in life is also a result of love, no matter where that child came from. And what about children fathered by sperm donors? There was no loving sexual intercourse involved there, but the mother no doubt desires and loves her baby. By your logic, since these children did not come to their parents through intercourse between their parents, they are unnatural and it is therefore wrong that the practices of adoption and artificial semination ever take place.
    I guess you are right my mate! Thank you for the discussions. I learned many new stuff. :wink:
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  23. #22  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eskander
    I guess you are right my mate! Thank you for the discussions. I learned many new stuff. :wink:
    I'm glad to have helped you in your assignment. It's always good to consider another point of view.

    It would probably be good for you to do some research on cloning as well, so you better understand the difficulties, potential dangers, and potential benefits of it.
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