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Thread: Homosexuality may not be wrong...but...

  1. #1 Homosexuality may not be wrong...but... 
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    Homosexuality creates a higher probability of HIV.

    This intrugied me very much so. I always thought as a young teen that homosexual sex gave you AIDS and HIV. Maybe there was some truth to it anyways after all.

    Also why do they ask at blood donations if you've had anal or oral sex with a man if you are a man? I believe it is a related topic.


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    I'm confused, how do you draw the title "Homosexuality creates a higher probability of HIV" from the heading "Male Semen Makes HIV More Potent" ( which is the actual title of the piece) ?


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    This has nothing to do with homosexuality as apposed to heterosexuality. It just says semen increases rate of transmission, even in heterosexual intercourse.

    If anything this just promotes lesbianism!!!

    They ask that in clinics as the highest rate of HIV is homosexuals although this demographic is changing which has huge international implications.
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    Yea well give folks a title and they'll often run aheah with how to react to the OP that they trip over, and thats when to pounce! .

    The link is valid and there is a stronger correlation between homosexuals and their actvities, it says it all in the artcile. When you say it has nothing to do, your reading what you want and drawing your own conclusion on what you've read. :?
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    I asked you a serious question, I demand a serious answer, not this incessant bloody drivel that you post which, has only the effect that fewer and fewer members bother to answer your posts, most seem to see your posts as an inconveniant deviation from a serious debate. You have indicated in this forum that you have 'an empty head', are not willing to read the subjects that you comment on and rely only on 'stumbling across the truth'.

    What is it you want to do in life? Do you have a real desire to understand the machinery of existence? Do you want a career in science?
    Have you a real passion to walk in the footsteps of others and push the path a little further into the unknown?

    OR will you continue as you are and run the risk of being completely ignored ?
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  7. #6  
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    Being ignored doesn't bother me.

    I post topics and then leave them, they usually become a hot topic and then other members begin debating. Just because I create a thread, and a discussion, doesn't mean I have to partake in it if I don't want. I'm laid back and will do whatever comes natrually, if I read arguments and don't feel as I want to reply, should I do so anyway? In the same way that as you say no one would respond to me?

    I stumble across the truth, I learn things far easier than anyone else. Unfortuantley I've never had anyone to push me in the right direction. Only people ridiculing everything I say and do.
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    In many ways the "incessant drivel" that you refer to could perhaps lead to the next great discovery of our time.

    by theoretical science and discussing our ideas between the intelligent people on this forum we can increase everyones understanding and draw our own conclusions.

    What doesn't help is someone flaming a guy because he makes an open discussion and stop any useful debate.
    arrogance and ignorance is a dangerous combination my friend, and you seem to have developed both
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacketate
    In many ways the "incessant drivel" that you refer to could perhaps lead to the next great discovery of our time.

    by theoretical science and discussing our ideas between the intelligent people on this forum we can increase everyones understanding and draw our own conclusions.

    What doesn't help is someone flaming a guy because he makes an open discussion and stop any useful debate.
    arrogance and ignorance is a dangerous combination my friend, and you seem to have developed both
    If your refferning to me. I am no different than anyone else (generalising) on this forum. I posted this thread to offer insight that homosexual sex may lead to an increase in HIV if no care is taken. I stumbled across this article I found and wondered if any of you agree or disagree with it, thats all I did, I made a joke halfway through to try and lighten the mood but all of a sudden everyone pounces on me like I'm a threat or something.

    I posted because you people of wiser years may be able to offer more insight into the artcile being correct or not, all I get is older people bashing the young. AGAIN.



    EDIT: Heres how I came across the article:

    http://www.residentevilfan.com/forum...id=3&tid=63219
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    It wasnt directed at you, it was directed at whoever it was flamed you for posting the article and your ideas.

    I totally agree with posting opinions and letting people on the forum discuss it. it can help us move forward with our ideas of how the world/universe works
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  11. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacketate
    It wasnt directed at you, it was directed at whoever it was flamed you for posting the article and your ideas.

    I totally agree with posting opinions and letting people on the forum discuss it. it can help us move forward with our ideas of how the world/universe works
    Oh, sorry

    On another note MB, how the hell did you deduce this?:

    ...an empty head', are not willing to read the subjects that you comment on and rely only on 'stumbling across the truth'.
    I make my own path, and my own path sometimes crosses the paths science has already made, as in stumbling. But that path does not become the path I follow, I continue to make my own and cut through all other paths, thats how my wacky theories arrive. Thats when I get flamed for stating my opinion.

    Grr...
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    Don't worry its just people who open the textbook and copy down the reply or theory that is in there.

    They dont realise science is evolving and changing. and that current theory could be wrong, especially in areas we haven't fully explored such as genetics
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  13. #12  
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    IN another thread you indicated that you are not prepared to read a physics book to get the answer, your signature indicates your head is empty, and you have also (again in another thread said that you stumble across the truth.)

    I have not flamed anybody, I have either quoted his own words or attacked his posts for the drivel I see them as.

    Sometimes however unpaletable people need to be told the truth. (I think I missed a comma there somewhere...).
    It does not matter one iota to me what his fate in life is, but if I can help improve it I will, if that help is ignored then it's not my problem.


    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    A longitudinal wave is like gamma rays, very short gaps between troughs and peaks. Opposite for transverse, they are the same. I shall theorise on this new idea. Don't know the end result but thats the art of stumbling upon things. And I'd rather stumble than find, most often do. How queer?
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Being chaotic usually means you stumble upon things. My brain is a vacant room.

    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    I'm theorising fact without knowing it myself. Thats what I do, do you honestly think I can be bothered to read half of a physics text book!? My method is chaotic I know but still.
    Now when people see him ask questions they may well (as I have done) take the time and trouble to answer his points, now read this:-

    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    I post topics and then leave them,
    Is that fair? OK I will spend my time trying to answer the serious questions of those who wish to learn rather than try to teach an empty room.
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    If there is one thing your threads and comments have in common, svwillmer, it's that you're often trying to find or suggest ways to scientifically justify value/moral judgements.

    You don't like atheists, that much is clear, so you make threads suggesting something is physically and/or psychologically wrong with atheists that makes then different from "normal" people. You don't like homosexuality, that much is also clear, so you make threads and comments that there are biological and health related reasons why we should all dislike and/or avoid homosexuality.

    No matter what new ideas you may be trying to stir up, you're going about it in a manner that is very much against the scientific ideal of objective observation of the world. New ideas skewed by personal, subjective opinions are difficult to make progress with. You are very often far from objective, and it shows.

    As to the actual OP, HIV is often associated with homosexual men because they tend to lead a higher-risk sexual life than straight people. You've got the naturally more promiscuous sex engaging in intercourse with each other, so they tend to have more sexual partners and more chances of becoming infected with HIV. I would imagine that, similar to very religious people promoting abstinence and not teaching young people about safe sex at all, homosexual safe sex is not something that is often talked about or taught either.

    The main point of the article you linked to, however, is merely why HIV gets passed on so easily through intercourse, and that by understanding why this is, a possible method of preventing infection passing from one person to another through sex can be attained.
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    Yea well give folks a title and they'll often run aheah with how to react to the OP that they trip over, and thats when to pounce! .

    The link is valid and there is a stronger correlation between homosexuals and their actvities, it says it all in the artcile. When you say it has nothing to do, your reading what you want and drawing your own conclusion on what you've read. :?

    You must be joking the article uses the words intravaginal intercourse and heterosexual. What you are doing is giving science an agenda which destroys what science sets out to do. It DOES NOT say anything of the sort in this article, this is just you and your ignorant views; they are unscientific and immoral and i dont know how you can expect to be taken seriously when you claim yo are interested in serioud scientific debate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacketate
    Don't worry its just people who open the textbook and copy down the reply or theory that is in there.

    They dont realise science is evolving and changing. and that current theory could be wrong, especially in areas we haven't fully explored such as genetics
    Please elaborate on the second point.
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  17. #16  
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    OK. Thanks paralith

    A: I don't mind atheists, I mind their attitude towards religion because it hurts them.

    B: When I say something MB, have you ever thought I may be talking in metaphors? If theres one thing you must have learned from me by now is my double meaning posts.

    C: I don't mind homosexuals anymore, I've already made that clear earlier.

    D: What were you doing when you were 20 MB? Reading a large text book?

    E: One person rips me to shreds, including the moderator EVERYONE joins the band wagon, but I thank jacketate for being more understanding.

    F: Ever thoguht my views STRONG views as you see them might stem from something thats happened in my life?Is there one out there who is not a heartless bastard? Exuse the colloqiualism.

    G: There really aren't enough letters in the alphabet to go on. I am insulted by the fact that you can't accept my way of life, if I don't read text books, if I like science but aren't motivated to read a book for hours on end then you'll excuse me.



    I post topics and then leave them,
    Is that fair? OK I will spend my time trying to answer the serious questions of those who wish to learn rather than try to teach an empty room.
    Err I believe I had a sentence after that? The comma means all related info after to the next full stop is related, quote me proporly please. I create topics so others can post in them because I make good points and you know damn well I do with how many hot topics I've got under my belt. They may be direct questions but they are issues that need addressing. I can't believe you are flaming me for this I really can't, our old enough to know better MB, someone please back me up. Vacant room means able to be filled for goodness sake! I stuble upon things and learn them so I can learn more.

    This has very much upset me in an emotional way. I'm spitting the dummy out now and with all rights too.
    If there is one thing your threads and comments have in common, svwillmer, it's that you're often trying to find or suggest ways to scientifically justify value/moral judgements.
    Yes beacause the world needs emotional answers, science is the most heartless thing on this planet. And excuse me for adding a bit of heart to the head. No don't excuse me, I'm charting a new course for humanity with this method, and will continue to spread it.

    I turn agnostic, which is damn tough given my previous beleifs and my life and everything else is pushing me
    for Gods sake think about that next time you rip my head off. Anyone less stronger would have gone nuts by now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    E: One person rips me to shreds, including the moderator EVERYONE joins the band wagon,
    Svwillmer, try to take Megabrain's comments in the spirit in which they were intended. I think he is sincerely trying to help. He has been a successful scientist, and knows what it takes to become one.
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    Anal sex is more likely than vaginal sex to lead to small tears, providing access to the bloodstream, which is required for HIV infection.

    Vaginal sex is more likely than anal sex to lead to other consequences, such as babies.
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  20. #19  
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    People have hearts. Science does not. You can use science to seek the answers to the questions your heart has, but the method by which you do so must be objective - otherwise, your chances of finding the real truth are small.

    For someone trying to find answers for the world, who's trying to chart a new course for humanity, randomly stumbling across bits and pieces of information is not an effective way of achieving either of these things. People who truly want something, who truly love something, put actual effort into it. Put time into it. Many of the people on this forum clearly invest a good deal of time and effort to explore, learn, and discuss scientific issues. Your effort seems geared towards racking up more "hot topics" to put "under my belt."
    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
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  21. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by paralith
    People have hearts. Science does not. You can use science to seek the answers to the questions your heart has, but the method by which you do so must be objective - otherwise, your chances of finding the real truth are small.

    For someone trying to find answers for the world, who's trying to chart a new course for humanity, randomly stumbling across bits and pieces of information is not an effective way of achieving either of these things. People who truly want something, who truly love something, put actual effort into it. Put time into it. Many of the people on this forum clearly invest a good deal of time and effort to explore, learn, and discuss scientific issues. Your effort seems geared towards racking up more "hot topics" to put "under my belt."
    Under my belt means I have created hot topic, I did not mean it to mean that was my ultimate goal of this forum. I do wish to learn I wanted to learn in this thread if that article was correct and if gay sex was more potent to HIV, which in blood donor meetings they ask you. I wanted to learn here. I want to learn science, I want to progress my life but I don't want to do it all at once and rush it, I want to bide my time, I'm young I should live and love before I sacrafice my life to science.

    Are you motivated to learn physics paralith? I am and not so much biology yet, as I'm sure is reverse with you.

    Stumbling allows me to learn science I need to know and at the same time walk blindly down new paths which are dark and unexplored. If you dedicate your life to a text book your never going to see any new truths beacuse those truths don't exist in the book.

    "Many of the people on this forum" as you say is clearly an affront to segreate me from the mass of this forum.

    But thanks anyway for the support in the topic at hand earlier.
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  22. #21  
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    If you are wandering blind how do you know you are on a path?
    You need some textbooks to show you where the paths lie so you can choose on.
    If you want to learn "physics" then you want a physics textbook otherwise how do you know what physics is?If you're just using wikipedia and the likes then you are just taking a poor source as your textbook.

    If you want to question something scientific then here is the place, however if you want to question morality/ethics then it is philosophy you should read and ask about.

    We do not wish to segregate you but you segregate yourself when you produce something scientific in a controversial light (like here) however innocent your views may be.
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  23. #22  
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    Everything new is controversial, hence the word. I do have a physics text book and read it, just not everyday.

    What I asked was scientific I don't know if the article is truth though or bum crum. Thats why I asked! You lot know I don't, so help me learn, please. Sheesh.
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    We'd have to read the article in Cell to see if the article was truly accurate and scientific but yes it seems objective enough.

    Please read your opening thread again. Please understand why we may not have thought what you said was quite as scientific as you seem to think.

    No not everything new is controversial, this is no exception, it is potentially important, the only thing which makes it controversial is putting a spin on it aimed at a group of people or drawing obscure conclusions.
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  25. #24  
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    I asked a question, I drew no conclusion merley probed a question to which I knew nothing about towards an anwser, hence I asked more knowledgable people.
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  26. #25  
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    I give up.
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  27. #26  
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    SV, several points.

    Listen to what paralith says. She is offering solid objectivity motivated by genuine compassion.

    Robbie has 'given up', I think, because you fail to see that the question you asked contained an implicit interpretation of reality. That interpretation, other posters have shown, was almost certainly faulty, appears biased and perhaps even bigoted. Your refusal, or inability to understand this is what is frustrating Robbie. [Robbie if I have misinterpreted your intent please clarify and accept my apology.]

    There is a lot of merit in 'stumbling around', though I think there is even more in 'wandering around' and even more in following established paths until you know the geography of the neighbourhood very thoroughly. Then, and only then should you venture off the paths of convention into the shrubberies of novelty and controversy.

    Your condemnation of science as 'heartless' while accurate is irrelevant. Jars of marmalade manufactured by Keiller's of Dundeed are also heartless. Mid ocean ridge basalts are heartless. The instructions for determining the correct postal charges for parcels in the UK are heartless. The catalogue of the British Library is heartless. And yes, science is heartless. It is a tool with a function. That function is to gather knowledge. Heart is not relevant to the methodolgy of that search. The motivation and the use to which the knowledge is put arguably require a heart, but the method most definitely does not.

    Please note that while I have disagreed with you on several points in this post I am not attacking you. I am attacking some of your ideas, or certainly the way you are expressing them. It may be that some of the other attacks you perceive being the target of are similar.
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    Just to be clear exactly. What is at fault in my posts because I haven't actually been told in black and white what they are, hence me thinking that posts to me here are attacking me.

    EDIT: I've just read the article and have drawn a conclusion. It has f%@k all to do with homosexuality. Thats the last time I take the word of science from the people on the other forum. Sorry guys I can't believe I started this thread. I geniunley thought the article addressed the thread title as gained form the other forum. Sorry again.

    To ensure something is learned from this thread can someone answer why some blood doner agencies ask if you've had homosexual encounters because I am curious as to why you can't give blood if you have.

    EDIT 2: Oh and sorry for wasting your time .
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  29. #28  
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    EDIT: I've just read the article and have drawn a conclusion. It has f%@k all to do with homosexuality.
    Wait a minute. You never read the article? Seriously? You posted it as a link with the text stating that homosexuality creates a higher risk of HIV like it's some kind of known fact and you said "the correlations are all there in the article" and you never actually read the article? This is beyond stumbling, svwillmer.

    Look, nobody ever said you need to sacrifice your young life to science, but for pete's sake, make sure you actually have some sort of idea about the subjects you're making these wild statements about, or you'll just keep posting completely incorrect nonsense and not even realize it. And any time someone tries to correct the nonsense you take it like some sort of personal affront. I just hope you finally understand what we're all talking about.

    To ensure something is learned from this thread can someone answer why some blood doner agencies ask if you've had homosexual encounters because I am curious as to why you can't give blood if you have.
    We've already answered that. But I'll repeat it. Homosexual men tend to lead a higher risk sexual lifestyle, and anal sex is more likely than vaginal sex to lead to membrane tears that allow the virus easier access to the bloodstream. [/i]
    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer

    To ensure something is learned from this thread can someone answer why some blood doner agencies ask if you've had homosexual encounters because I am curious as to why you can't give blood if you have.
    As an, albeit irregular, donor, I think I can address that query.

    Back in the '80s and even the early '90s, blood donation qualification rules were not as strict as they are now. As a result, some contaminated blood did enter the system and some patients, through no fault of their own, contracted HIV leading to AIDS.

    The National Blood Service screens all blood taken for a variety of possible pathogens, including HIV. Unfortunately, it means that some people decided to use it as a free testing service instead of going to their GPs or privately.

    In order to reduce the incidence of this exploitation, as well as trying to reduce to zero the possibility of contaminated blood entering the system, the pre-screening questions have become, as you know, very stringent.

    Please bear in mind, however, that it is not just unprotected sexual activity that screens one out. I travel to India on an irregular basis and, because it is deemed a malarious country, whenever I return I have to wait upto a year before I am allowed to donate again.

    I think paralith made the point about homosexuality per se not being a risk factor, but that the homosexual lifestyle, if it includes careless promiscuity, can raise the level of risk many times over. It would be foolish of the NBS to ignore this risk factor. Heterossexuals are not considered naturally safe either and the screening includes questions regarding unprotected heterosexual encounters as well.

    This applies to the NBS in the UK. In the States they have their own set of regulations that are, I believe, just as stringent. For instance, because I have lived in the UK at any time before 1997 (or some such) I cannot donate there because of their fear of vCJD and the possibility that just about anybody in the British population could have been exposed to it.

    Hope this helps.

    cheer

    shanks
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    As a result, some contaminated blood did enter the system and some patients, through no fault of their own, contracted HIV leading to AIDS.
    Isaac Asimov for one.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

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  32. #31  
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    Thanks so much everyone, and sorry for the earlier lazyness of myself.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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