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Thread: Blacks, Arabs and higher testosterone

  1. #1 Blacks, Arabs and higher testosterone 
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    Why Blacks have 19% more testosterone ? Do Arabs also have higher testosterone level ? Which nations have higher testosterone level ?


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  3. #2  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard paralith's Avatar
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    I was unaware that what you're stating is a proven fact. What is your source for this information?


    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
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  4. #3  
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    Yeah, that's a new figure to me too...
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    The Doctor Quantime's Avatar
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    Too much jungle juice Drink beer and any blokes likely to have 19% more testosterone.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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  6. #5  
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    Barbara A. Cohn studied samples of 15000 families. Their study showed blacks in California have higher testosterone.

    Zhang, Y., Graubard, B. I., Klebanoff, M. A., Ronckers, C., Stanczyk, F. Z., Longnecker, M. P., McGlynn, K. A. studied samples of 150 black and 150 white women. Black women had higher testosterone.

    American Journal of medical genetics studied samples of 4 blacks and 26 whites - blacks had higher testosterone

    Ross R, Bernstein L, Judd H, Hanisch R, Pike M, Henderson B. in Journal of National Cancer showed blacks have 15% higher testosterone level

    On the other hand

    Kubricht and the others (189 blacks 264 whites) showed blacks after age 40 have the same testosterone level

    RJ Richards, F Svec, W Bao, SR Srinivasan and GS Berenson (519 blacks 519 whites) showed no difference in testosterone levels between blacks and whites

    Jane A. Cauley and others (273 white women and 86 black women aged 65) - showed that androstenedione is lower in black women

    Susan M. Gapstur1, Peter H. Gann, Peter Kopp, Laura Colangelo, Christopher Longcope and Kiang Liu (483 blacks 695 whites) - showed there is no difference between blacks and whites

    The Boston Area Community Health (538 black, 651 Hispanic, 710 white) - showed blacks have the same testosterone level as whites

    Daniel J. Hoffman*, ZiMian Wang and Steven B. Heymsfield (224 samples) - showed there is no difference in testosterone level

    Heald A.H.; Ivison F.; Anderson S.G.; Cruickshank K.; Laing I.; Gibson J.M. European (n = 55), Pakistani (n = 50) and African-Caribbean (AfC) origin (n = 75) - showed no difference between blacks and whites (although Pakistani people had lower testosterone

    Ross RK, Bernstein L, Lobo RA, Shimizu H, Stanczyk FZ, Pike MC, Henderson BE - showed no difference in testosterone between blacks, whites and Asians

    Roland L Weinsier, Gary R Hunter, Barbara A Gower, Yves Schutz, Betty E Darnell and Paul A Zuckerman (23 blacks and 23 whites) - testosterone was lower in black women
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  7. #6  
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    Some evidence say they have higher testosterone, some evidence say there is no difference. Nobody can be sure. But Californian study (15000 families) is a study good enough for me. The sample size is very large.
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    Did any of these authors discuss possible reasons for why they did or did not see a difference in the testosterone level of these different groups? That would be a good place to start to answer your original question.
    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
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    Unfortunetly nobody tried to guess why do they have higher testosterone. And I also can't see why.

    Europeans did use a lot of physical force (90% of them were serfs or peasants who worked physically).

    Africans did hunt more. But is it the answer ?
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  10. #9  
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    For example Africans had to fight against wild animals. But on the other hand Europeans fought in constant wars.
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  11. #10  
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    I'm not touching this discussion. I do think your reasoning fro why their testosterone levels are higher is incorrect though... Africa has a pretty detailed history of wars among tribes. By that logic would you expect American Indians to have higher testosterone too??
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  12. #11  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard paralith's Avatar
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    Your best bet, Siemowit, is to do some research on testosterone and when and why it is elevated in individuals and across species. This will give you an idea of where to start, though I have to admit I'm skeptical that in all those studies you listed, not one of the authors speculated on the cause of the testosterone increase. Try reading them again.
    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
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    Forum Professor sunshinewarrior's Avatar
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    To add to what Paralith and others have said, while you may think the sample is good enough for you, it may still be totally mistaken. Try, first, to think of social factors that can affect testosterone levels in animals (humans included).

    1. Take a look at Robert Sapolsky's wonderful The Trouble with Testosterone where he discusses not just hormone production but its links to aggression and (particularly important) to social status, but in a counter-intuitive manner.

    2. Then have a dekko at Thorsten Verblen's ideas on conspicuous consumption and its relation to the need to demonstrate ones status or riches on oneself - because your sub-culture does not allow for the stability that having a house might provide.

    These are just hints as to why all these 'blacks', as you call them, in California, might have higher testosterone levels than others in the area.

    A good idea when considering studies like this is first to see in which ways the issues might be socially/enironmentally related: it helps prevent people from getting into racist mindsets.

    cheer

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    Quote Originally Posted by sunshinewarrio
    'blacks', as you call them
    Don't worry. Blacks call themselves blacks too. And they're ok about calling us whites

    "Do you insult my brother, sir?"
    "It's no insult to say a dead man is dead."
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    Forum Professor sunshinewarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TvEye
    Quote Originally Posted by sunshinewarrio
    'blacks', as you call them
    Don't worry. Blacks call themselves blacks too. And they're ok about calling us whites

    "Do you insult my brother, sir?"
    "It's no insult to say a dead man is dead."
    A lot of people call themselves 'black', and that's fair enough. My only point about it is that it isn't a biologically defined race label and asking questions about 'blacks' as though the members of that group constitute a genetically well-defined subset of humanity is misleading. 'Black' as used today, is almost entirely a cultural concept. Hence my suggestion that social-based theories be looked at first, to explain any seemingly anomalous testosterone levels.
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  16. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunshinewarrio
    A lot of people call themselves 'black', and that's fair enough. My only point about it is that it isn't a biologically defined race label and asking questions about 'blacks' as though the members of that group constitute a genetically well-defined subset of humanity is misleading. 'Black' as used today, is almost entirely a cultural concept. Hence my suggestion that social-based theories be looked at first, to explain any seemingly anomalous testosterone levels.
    Agreed. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I remember hearing somewhere that there is more genetic diversity within the group of people that would be called "black" than there is between and within most other culturally defined races. I'll have to look that one up.
    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
    ~Jean-Paul Sartre
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    "Do you insult my brother, sir?"
    "It's no insult to say a dead man is dead."
    Comes from Troy

    What about the environment one grows up in? If you grew up in a hostile/dangerous/competitive environment, would it not affect your testosterone levels later in life? Especially if the environment is still dangerous/etc ?
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

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  18. #17  
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    So should we call black guys, "Darker-toned, genetically diverse people"?

    I think from now on, when I go fill in forms at the bank, I'm going to write inverted commas on either side of the 'W' check box.
    "First we build the tools, then they build us" - Marshall McLuhan.
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  19. #18  
    Forum Professor sunshinewarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TvEye
    So should we call black guys, "Darker-toned, genetically diverse people"?

    I think from now on, when I go fill in forms at the bank, I'm going to write inverted commas on either side of the 'W' check box.
    I call myself pre-tanned. And I'd be happy to offer my average skin albedo as a rating.
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  20. #19 Re: Blacks, Arabs and higher testosterone 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siemowit
    Why Blacks have 19% more testosterone ? Do Arabs also have higher testosterone level ? Which nations have higher testosterone level ?
    There's white, black then Arab, right? Right, lol.
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