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Thread: inbreeding in animals

  1. #1 inbreeding in animals 
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    Hi guys just a quik question.

    what are the disadvantages of inbreeding in animals.

    thanks for any help


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  3. #2 Re: inbreeding in animals 
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    Quote Originally Posted by martyn
    Hi guys just a quik question.

    what are the disadvantages of inbreeding in animals.

    thanks for any help
    The offspring might become president?


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  4. #3 Re: inbreeding in animals 
    Forum Cosmic Wizard paralith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by martyn
    Hi guys just a quik question.

    what are the disadvantages of inbreeding in animals.

    thanks for any help
    The biggest problem with inbreeding is what's called inbreeding depression. This is the accumulation of deletrious mutations caused by family members breeding with each other. For example, a mother with a recessive mutant allele has several children. It is very likely that several of her children also have the recessive mutant allele. So if one of her daughters were to mate with one of her sons, there's a pretty high chance that two of those recessive mutant alleles will come together in the next generation. But if one of her daughters were to mate with a member of the general populace, the chance of that mate having the allele is much lower, and so is the chance of the mutant allele being expressed in the next generation.

    Basically, any familial traits will continue to be compounded, often making bad traits progressively worse.
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  5. #4  
    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    i've been keeping guinea pigs since i was a child, and they don't seem to suffer any ill effect from repeated inbreeding (like several consecutive generations of mother-son and father-daughter or father-granddaughter combinations) - any idea why they would seem to be exception to the rule that inbreeding is bad for your health ?
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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  6. #5  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard paralith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marnixR
    i've been keeping guinea pigs since i was a child, and they don't seem to suffer any ill effect from repeated inbreeding (like several consecutive generations of mother-son and father-daughter or father-granddaughter combinations) - any idea why they would seem to be exception to the rule that inbreeding is bad for your health ?
    hmm - I can't say for sure, but I do have a guess. Guinea pigs and other domesticated animals whose breeding has long been under human control are often selectively bred for purity of this or that trait - so they get inbred a lot. And the individuals that suffered from the negative inbreeding effects weren't bred again, and we end up with a subspecies that was selected for successful inbreeding. I know that strains of laboratory mice are like this too - intentionally inbred to be as genetically identical to each other as possible. We inbreed them regularly where I work too, to maintain a certain gene line as purely as possible, and they're just as fine as your guinea pigs. *shrugs*
    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
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  7. #6  
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    It's also a problem because it limits and decreases the genetic diversity leaving them much more vunerable
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  8. #7  
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    Quote Originally Posted by marnixR
    i've been keeping guinea pigs since i was a child, and they don't seem to suffer any ill effect from repeated inbreeding (like several consecutive generations of mother-son and father-daughter or father-granddaughter combinations) - any idea why they would seem to be exception to the rule that inbreeding is bad for your health ?
    Ever heard of Lethals? They are born as a result of inbreeding.
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  9. #8  
    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    no i can't say i have + i've never had any guins born other than in perfect health - then again i've never gone for funny breeds, so they probably were not inbred in that sense
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  10. #9  
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    A lot of people inbreed reptiles to create new colour morphs would you say this is bad ?
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  11. #10  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard spuriousmonkey's Avatar
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    Scientist inbreed animals to weed out variation so they get reproducible results.

    Would you say this is bad?

    Depends on what you want!

    If you want a population that will survive outside the lab cage it is not very good. If you want to do science it is good for many purposes.

    You can't answer the question: is inbreeding good or bad, without knowing the purpose.


    Is inbreeding good between people? Well, you can sure get a good combination of genetic material and create something great. Or if there are some nasty recessive genes to be found in these people's genetic material you can also get a really shitty result.

    Inbred lines are susceptible to diseases. Our animal facility is isolated from the environment. Mouse lines need to go into quarantine if you want to add them to the animal facility. That's because a single disease will spread like wildfire through the facility and will probably result in the termination of all animals in the facility.

    That said, even the standard NMRI mouseline is sturdier then any transgenic line. That's because they are still not as inbred as any transgenic line. Obviously i'm talking about the heterozygote transgenics and not the homozygotes which usually have a distinct phenotype.
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    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    this makes my blood boil - that's animal cruelty, that is !

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  13. #12  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard spuriousmonkey's Avatar
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    That's nothing.



    We use nude mice ourselves. Except we don't put our explants under the skin, we put them under the kidney capsule.

    Also notice the ear tags. It's either that or an actual metal tag in the ear.
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  14. #13  
    Forum Freshman Amaya's Avatar
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    I don't see why people keep testing on animals at all. I don't know what breakthrough they are going to find that is beneficial to to humans, by shaving a rat. It's a shame that people think that such cruelty is a needed thing, but oh well. We also rip babies out of the wombs of whores for just a few hundred dollars and dump them in the garbage. Nothing shocks me anymore.
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  15. #14  
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    Yeah but would you rather the first person a drug/cosmetic was tried on was human and risked death/ serious illness?!
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  16. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amaya
    I don't see why people keep testing on animals at all. I don't know what breakthrough they are going to find that is beneficial to to humans, by shaving a rat. It's a shame that people think that such cruelty is a needed thing, but oh well. We also rip babies out of the wombs of whores for just a few hundred dollars and dump them in the garbage. Nothing shocks me anymore.
    Hoo boy, if this turns into a thread debating animal testing, it will definitely be a long one. :wink:

    Animal testing for superfluous things like cosmetics is one thing; but sometimes animal testing for things like medicines and studying diseases is necessary. The whole-organism environment is, at this point in time, not reproducible in a laboratory setting. We can culture individual cells and tissues, but these are isolated from the organism and often behave differently as a result. Obviously a mouse is not the same as a human, but it's a heckava lot closer than a handful of cells. Either we test on the mice, or we test on people. And considering that I study a disease that afflicts human children, the choice is obvious for me.
    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
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  17. #16 Re: inbreeding in animals 
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    Quote Originally Posted by martyn
    Hi guys just a quik question.

    what are the disadvantages of inbreeding in animals.

    thanks for any help
    Apart from possibly losing immediate strength, the bigger problem is that adaptability is lost through a loss of genetic diversity on a population level. The individuals in the population might thus still be well adapted to their environment, but they will not be adaptable enough to cope with changes in their environment because there is not enoughn variations available in the population to have a good chance of changing with the environment.
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  18. #17  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard spuriousmonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amaya
    I don't see why people keep testing on animals at all. I don't know what breakthrough they are going to find that is beneficial to to humans, by shaving a rat. It's a shame that people think that such cruelty is a needed thing, but oh well. We also rip babies out of the wombs of whores for just a few hundred dollars and dump them in the garbage. Nothing shocks me anymore.
    Ignorance doesn't shock me either any more. Everyone apparently has an opinion on topics they know absolutely nothing about.

    The nude mice is not shaven. He is born that way. They use nude mice because they do not reject foreign tissue as is normal in regular mice. Hence you can graft tissue from other mice or animals into the nude mice and see how it grows.

    This is for instance useful if a transgenic mouse dies at birth due to the altered genotype and you want to see what happens to an organ or tissue after birth.

    Hence you graft it into the nude mouse.
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  19. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amaya
    I don't see why people keep testing on animals at all. I don't know what breakthrough they are going to find that is beneficial to to humans, by shaving a rat. It's a shame that people think that such cruelty is a needed thing, but oh well.
    Because a mice and men are closer than you think - if the alternative is testing on people, I have no problem with animal testing. Without it we'd be substantially behind in medical research.
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  20. #19  
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    Hello,
    to know accuratly what imbreeding is, onew must be able to compute it. Here is this calculation explained:
    http://www.braquedubourbonnais.info/...alculation.htm
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  21. #20  
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    Nice link. Please note that this thread is a couple of years old and you've just dragged it back onto page 1. You should try to avoid doing this, as it confuses other users.
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  22. #21 Re: inbreeding in animals 
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    I've read studies on reproductive success of males of wild animal species (Scandinavian brown bears, and several deer species).
    It was interesting to note that they found a negative correlation between reproductive success and internal relatedness (homozygosity).
    The more heterozygous the animals were, the more offspring they were capable of producing.

    Seems like quite strong evidence favoring non-inbred animals, even if there isn't anything obviously wrong.
    More heterozygous animals may simply have greater resistance to parasites, or something like that (seems likely).


    Something I have wondered before is why domestic mice and rats are so nonathletic compared to wild ones. With live traps we've caught a few wild rodents, and they weren't even remotely comparable to the domestic ones in athletic ability, bouncing around the cages (even the tiny mice had no problem jumping from the ground to the cage's lid, and then walking on it upside down by clinging with it's little feet).
    I'm sure most of you have seen the domestic ones and know how relatively clumsy they are-I don't think they can even jump well at all.

    I doubt this is a direct result of all the inbreeding (maybe the fact that domestic rats so regularly get tumors is?). Perhaps a result of breeding them for tameness?
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