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Thread: Can Man Create Life?

  1. #1 Can Man Create Life? 
    NLN
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    Some say that only God can create life from scratch, but it looks as if man is about to do the same -- maybe as soon as within the next few weeks. This article says that microscopic life is about to be created by humans.

    If this actually happens, are we playing God?


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    If this actually happens, are we playing God?
    Is that a bad thing? From a religious point of view, are we not created in the image of God? Do we not posses the Spirit of God?


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  4. #3 Re: Can Man Create Life? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by NLN
    If this actually happens, are we playing God?
    You know, I hate when people say that: "aren't we playing God". If you're to look at this from an atheist perspective...well, God doesn't exist. From a theist perspective, God gave us the earth and we do what we please with it...even destroy it, and create life out of it.

    I think it would be great if man does create these microorganisms, though it could be a dangerous thing, as if we create microorganisms, they could be used for good as well as evil.
    Whence comes this logic: no evidence = false?

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  5. #4 Re: Can Man Create Life? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by NLN
    Some say that only God can create life from scratch, but it looks as if man is about to do the same -- maybe as soon as within the next few weeks. This article says that microscopic life is about to be created by humans.

    If this actually happens, are we playing God?
    Interesting article but chemical and structures are one thing - life is totally another and very different.

    Personally, I don't expect to hear any real results come of this.
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  6. #5 Re: Can Man Create Life? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Geezer
    Quote Originally Posted by NLN
    Some say that only God can create life from scratch, but it looks as if man is about to do the same -- maybe as soon as within the next few weeks. This article says that microscopic life is about to be created by humans.

    If this actually happens, are we playing God?
    Interesting article but chemical and structures are one thing - life is totally another and very different.

    Personally, I don't expect to hear any real results come of this.
    This brings up an interesting question: if they somehow create a virus, would it be considered a living organism, or do they have to create something more complex than that (like a bacterium)?
    Whence comes this logic: no evidence = false?

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    Can man create life?


    With a fundamental question such as this it is important that no bits of logic or technicality, no matter how small, be spared - That nothing is laid to waste. Case in point: Terminology.

    Lets make one thing very clear, Man can only create that which is born from his imagination. And even then there are limits. Art is something that can be created. An asthetic or inpressionism of some kind. For example: Songs, poems, paintings, sculptures, stories, plays, films ect ect. These are things that first begin as abstract ideas and are then executed into reality to one degree or another. Technology is a creation of man as well.

    The universe, the stars, the solar system, planet earth - The sun, the wind, the ocean, the mountains, the forest. All of these are vast omnipotent forces that far outweigh any one man. Yet can any of these forces create a log cabin? No. Man may not be able to create the materials/natural resources to consist a log cabin but he can gather and modify those resources and arrange them in such a manner that allowes him to create the "Concept" of a log cabin. And inherently speaking, a log cabin is first and foremost a concept. An idea. And ideas come from the abstract realm of ones imagination. -The ability to imagine something from nothing- Only a man can create a log cabin. And that goes for all technology as well. We can create buildings and bridges and damns. We can create airplanes and automobils. We can create computers and write programs that can go off and write more programs on their own. Because again, the point of origin is always our imagination. Neither mother nature nor the laws of physics can create a rocket ship by themselves because a rocket ship is a product of dream and ambition. The natural world only acts out of random chance or necessity at most.

    But can man create life? No. It is crucial that we understand the difference between what is true creation and what is simply cause and effect. When a man flips open his zippo lighter it appears that he has created fire. But this is only an illusion. the flame from his lighter is no more synthetic - no less real than the flames from a lightning enduced forest fire. Man is not creating the flame he is merely causing it. We cannot create the chemicals of fire, all we can do is initiate the reaction of those chemicals that cause fire. This is because fire is a pre-existing force and not something that first began as an idea from our minds. Life is the same thing. We cannot create it - only cause it. Like fire or electricity, life predates mans "idea" of life. It is not an impressionism. It is not something we can ever truly create from nothing. So cloning or stem cell is still just an example of causing life rather than creating it.

    Ultimately, you can devide reality/existence into two basic catigories: Force and Creation. The inherent forces of nature and the universe vs. the creation of ideas from the imagination of sentient beings.

    Theists might argue otherwise, but I would reckon that life and evolution fall into the first category.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kolt
    Can man create life?


    With a fundamental question such as this it is important that no bits of logic or technicality, no matter how small, be spared - That nothing is laid to waste. Case in point: Terminology.

    Lets make one thing very clear, Man can only create that which is born from his imagination. And even then there are limits. Art is something that can be created. An asthetic or inpressionism of some kind. For example: Songs, poems, paintings, sculptures, stories, plays, films ect ect. These are things that first begin as abstract ideas and are then executed into reality to one degree or another. Technology is a creation of man as well.

    The universe, the stars, the solar system, planet earth - The sun, the wind, the ocean, the mountains, the forest. All of these are vast omnipotent forces that far outweigh any one man. Yet can any of these forces create a log cabin? No. Man may not be able to create the materials/natural resources to consist a log cabin but he can gather and modify those resources and arrange them in such a manner that allowes him to create the "Concept" of a log cabin. And inherently speaking, a log cabin is first and foremost a concept. An idea. And ideas come from the abstract realm of ones imagination. -The ability to imagine something from nothing- Only a man can create a log cabin. And that goes for all technology as well. We can create buildings and bridges and damns. We can create airplanes and automobils. We can create computers and write programs that can go off and write more programs on their own. Because again, the point of origin is always our imagination. Neither mother nature nor the laws of physics can create a rocket ship by themselves because a rocket ship is a product of dream and ambition. The natural world only acts out of random chance or necessity at most.

    But can man create life? No. It is crucial that we understand the difference between what is true creation and what is simply cause and effect. When a man flips open his zippo lighter it appears that he has created fire. But this is only an illusion. the flame from his lighter is no more synthetic - no less real than the flames from a lightning enduced forest fire. Man is not creating the flame he is merely causing it. We cannot create the chemicals of fire, all we can do is initiate the reaction of those chemicals that cause fire. This is because fire is a pre-existing force and not something that first began as an idea from our minds. Life is the same thing. We cannot create it - only cause it. Like fire or electricity, life predates mans "idea" of life. It is not an impressionism. It is not something we can ever truly create from nothing. So cloning or stem cell is still just an example of causing life rather than creating it.

    Ultimately, you can devide reality/existence into two basic catigories: Force and Creation. The natural forces of nature and the universe vs. the creation of ideas from the imagination of sentient beings.

    Theists might argue otherwise, but I would reckon that life and evolution fall into the first category.
    Good post. Another argument to throw at those who oppose our 'creating life'. "We ain't creatin' it, just causin' it, just like we breed thems cattle".
    Whence comes this logic: no evidence = false?

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  9. #8  
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    Lets make one thing very clear, Man can only create that which is born from his imagination.
    Sparing no bits of logic or technicality... you're already mistaken, here (and that's where I stopped reading). It's not an uncommon occurence that new knowledge and creations beyond human imagination sprang from an accidental experiment. Let's make this thing very clear, not everything we have created was premeditated.
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    Quote Originally Posted by M
    Sparing no bits of logic or technicality... you're already mistaken, here (and that's where I stopped reading). It's not an uncommon occurence that new knowledge and creations beyond human imagination sprang from an accidental experiment. Let's make this thing very clear, not everything we have created was premeditated.

    Let's make this thing very clear, not everything we have created was premeditated

    That statement is arguable. Fundemtentaly, there is no such thing as an accidental creation. It is a contradiction in terms. Creation is an action - To create is an act. Creation is a result of purpose and intent.

    When a jazz musician is playing live before an audience so many of the various riffs and cues you hear are awesomely unique because they are complete and original new born moments in space and time. But since so much of jazz music is a thing of spontenaiety those moments or creations are, like you said, not always premeditated. Yet even though the nature of those musical numbers are not always predetermined, the intent to express oneself musicaly, in fact, is. So you can't really refer to those creations as being accidental - just impulsive.

    Soda, velcro and vulcanized rubber are all accidental products of man. There is no way, or at least it is highly unlikely, that these things would have ever come into existence without the intervention of man or some other intelligent being. Yet, technically, they are not creations. They are simply random offspring of scientific experimantation that have been seized and taken advantage of.

    X-Rays and penicillin were never premeditated either. But because one is a basic property of physics and the other a biomechanism of evolution, again they are forces of nature and the universe that predates any conceptualization by a intelligent being. As in humans. So they are not accidental creations but instead accidental discoveries.

    Like I said before I believe that life is a force of nature. I do not think that mankind will ever be able to create life from nothing. If for no other reason, we simply don't have to. The process is already there. I believe that what we can do is rearrange the pieces and alter the playing field allowing that process to slow down or speed up. Perhaps we might be able to change the course of evolution for any one or more organisms. Or maybe introduce an organism into a new environment and see how life reacts. It's kind of like sailing. We can't create the winds but we can use technology to help control the winds and guid us to where ever it is we're going. From there the question remains: How much control can a seafarer ever truly possess? You can have the best vessel and the best sailing mass in the world but there are some storms that simply cannot be negotiated.

    I only hope that as man continues to experiment with evolution he does so with as much responsibility as possible. Or else its - Man overboard
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    Creation is an action -
    Yes.

    To create is an act
    Yes.

    Creation is a result of purpose and intent.
    Not necessarily.

    That's one scenario, but not the only one. Creation is simply the act of creating, and to create means to bring into existence. This can be done with intent or without intent, with purpose or without. Furthermore, even when it's done with intent, the result of the creation may not be what was expected. Especially the latter scenario is actually very common: Scientist attempts to create A, accidentally creates B, and in hindsight realizes that B has some value (unrelated to A). With chemistry, a whole scientific discipline has evolved from "Al Chemy", the notoriously unsuccessful pre-scientific discipline that searched to create things like gold and eternal life. Among the most famous accidental inventions: Gunpowder.
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    Man never can create life out of non leaving things. If someboy claim that , he is lying. He must have used living or previously living body. When man can make life from C, N, H, O , of nature only(must be synthesised in chem lab) only then we will believe that now man is God. Think my dear friends, man even cant create a single red bolld cell. man cant synthesise blood at lab. 99% of this universe is unknown. May be all scientific theories are wrong, even law of gravitation. May be the theory os Abiogenesis is entirely wrong. May be theory of Big Bang is wrong. Universe is mystery, its dark, untouchable, even far beyond of our brain's capacity. When we could describe "Dark Energy", we will be only 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 001% close to God. The dark energy is occupying all empty space , even the space between you and your computer monitor. The things are appearing and disappearing. Its all mystery. Energy? how this vast dome of unknown energy created, who created it? we dont know. Ous pysics , hehehehehe, may be 99% wrong!!!! only 1% showing its effect!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by general man View Post
    Man never can create life out of non leaving things. If someboy claim that , he is lying. He must have used living or previously living body. When man can make life from C, N, H, O , of nature only(must be synthesised in chem lab) only then we will believe that now man is God. Think my dear friends, man even cant create a single red bolld cell. man cant synthesise blood at lab. 99% of this universe is unknown. May be all scientific theories are wrong, even law of gravitation. May be the theory os Abiogenesis is entirely wrong. May be theory of Big Bang is wrong. Universe is mystery, its dark, untouchable, even far beyond of our brain's capacity. When we could describe "Dark Energy", we will be only 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 001% close to God. The dark energy is occupying all empty space , even the space between you and your computer monitor. The things are appearing and disappearing. Its all mystery. Energy? how this vast dome of unknown energy created, who created it? we dont know. Ous pysics , hehehehehe, may be 99% wrong!!!! only 1% showing its effect!!!
    Load spewed forth by a guy that believes in a God for which there is no evidence while spouting about how science could be wrong. I doubt I am the only one amused by the arrogant irony, here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by general man View Post
    Man never etc etc
    Well I'm convinced.
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    Quote Originally Posted by general man View Post
    Man never can create life out of non leaving things. If someboy claim that , he is lying.
    ======================
    The Immortal Molecule: Scripps Research Scientists Develop First Examples of RNA that Replicates Itself Indefinitely Without Any Help from Biology

    January 8 2009
    Findings Could Inform Biochemical Questions about How Life Began

    LA JOLLA, CA, January 8, 2009—One of the most enduring questions is how life could have begun on Earth. Molecules that can make copies of themselves are thought to be crucial to understanding this process as they provide the basis for heritability, a critical characteristic of living systems. Now, a pair of Scripps Research Institute scientists has taken a significant step toward answering that question. The scientists have synthesized for the first time RNA enzymes that can replicate themselves without the help of any proteins or other cellular components, and the process proceeds indefinitely.
    ==============================
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    Quote Originally Posted by general man View Post
    Man never can create life out of non leaving things. If someboy claim that , he is lying. He must have used living or previously living body.

    You are confusing abiogenesis with the postulate of Rudolf Virchow: Omnis cellula e cellula.

    Quote Originally Posted by general man View Post
    When man can make life from C, N, H, O , of nature only(must be synthesised in chem lab) only then we will believe that now man is God.

    The synthesis of the essential elements (C, H, N, O, S, P, Ca, K, Cl, Na, Mg) in a laboratory is pointless (since they are abundant in nature) , nor does it indicate that man is a deity.

    Quote Originally Posted by general man View Post
    Think my dear friends, man even cant create a single red bolld cell. man cant synthesise blood at lab.

    The production of artificial blood is an active field of interest. Besides, why would we try to create erythrocytes?

    Quote Originally Posted by general man View Post
    99% of this universe is unknown.

    How did you arrive at that number?

    Quote Originally Posted by general man View Post
    May be all scientific theories are wrong, even law of gravitation. May be the theory os Abiogenesis is entirely wrong. May be theory of Big Bang is wrong.

    The law of gravity is, de facto, not a scientific theory.

    Quote Originally Posted by general man View Post
    Universe is mystery, its dark, untouchable, even far beyond of our brain's capacity. When we could describe "Dark Energy", we will be only 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 001% close to God.

    How did you arrive at that number?

    Quote Originally Posted by general man View Post
    The dark energy is occupying all empty space , even the space between you and your computer monitor.

    Not all empty space. Dark energy makes up 68.3% of the observable universe.
    (cf. NASA - Planck Mission Brings Universe Into Sharp Focus)


    Quote Originally Posted by general man View Post
    Energy? how this vast dome of unknown energy created, who created it? we dont know. Ous pysics , hehehehehe, may be 99% wrong!!!! only 1% showing its effect!!!

    How did you arrive at that number?

    In summary, every statement is devoid of any scientific knowledge.
    Last edited by Cogito Ergo Sum; August 16th, 2013 at 04:33 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by general man View Post
    Man never can create life out of non leaving things. If someboy claim that , he is lying.
    ======================
    The Immortal Molecule: Scripps Research Scientists Develop First Examples of RNA that Replicates Itself Indefinitely Without Any Help from Biology

    January 8 2009
    Findings Could Inform Biochemical Questions about How Life Began

    LA JOLLA, CA, January 8, 2009—One of the most enduring questions is how life could have begun on Earth. Molecules that can make copies of themselves are thought to be crucial to understanding this process as they provide the basis for heritability, a critical characteristic of living systems. Now, a pair of Scripps Research Institute scientists has taken a significant step toward answering that question. The scientists have synthesized for the first time RNA enzymes that can replicate themselves without the help of any proteins or other cellular components, and the process proceeds indefinitely.
    ==============================
    Wow- Thanks for posting this.
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    Look down, between your legs.
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    Create something out of nothing. Is it possible? fundamentel of everything is energy. How many kinds of energies are there? what is the source of this energy in this universe? Is big bang theory is true? If man can answer all these, then he can obviously create matter and life in his own emaginary lab with the assistence of heart and brain. hehehehe. Better you buy a powerful telescope and look at night sky. You will be amazed!! I strongly believe in science but not blindly. I can challenge that human brain has some capacity like everything has some capacity. like a computer processor has certain capacity, yo brain is like that. But byond your capacity there are infinite things that you never can touch or even think or imagine. So simply call it "Black". But as we are intelligent being , research will go no and on as long human exists. Because we are created to think and analize. Man is superior known creation on this planet(Earth).
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    Quote Originally Posted by shlunka View Post
    Look down, between your legs.
    That doesn't count as synthetic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by general man View Post
    Create something out of nothing.
    Who claimed anything about creating things out of nothing? Is there a theory you can discuss that proposes something created out of nothing? It is most certainly not Big Bang theory, as the BBT or Lambda CDM model does not make that claim in any fashion- so I can only conclude that you have something else in mind.
    This is a Straw man fallacy you've shifted the goal posts to since your arguments above were refuted.
    Quote Originally Posted by general man View Post
    hehehehe.
    Are these maniacal laughs or something?
    Quote Originally Posted by general man View Post
    But byond your capacity there are infinite things that you never can touch or even think or imagine.
    How do you know this? Since we cannot think of them or imagine them- how did you get this Special Insight of yours?

    You assert your belief in a deity for which there is no evidence while calling that which is well supported by strong evidence into question. Using your special insight- can you explain the quandary there?
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    Quote Originally Posted by general man View Post
    But as we are intelligent being
    To varying degrees.

    Because we are created...
    Assumption.

    ...to think and analize.
    Additional assumption.
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    Quote Originally Posted by general man View Post
    Create something out of nothing. Is it possible?

    Creatio ex nihilo is impossible. The people who wrote Genesis should have known better.

    Quote Originally Posted by general man View Post
    fundamentel of everything is energy. How many kinds of energies are there? what is the source of this energy in this universe?

    One has potential energy, kinetic energy, vibrational energy, dark energy, ...

    Quote Originally Posted by general man View Post
    Is big bang theory is true?

    Seriously?

    Quote Originally Posted by general man View Post
    If man can answer all these, then he can obviously create matter and life in his own emaginary lab with the assistence of heart and brain.

    Non sequitur.

    Quote Originally Posted by general man View Post
    I strongly believe in science but not blindly.

    One should not believe science. One should understand science.

    Quote Originally Posted by general man View Post
    I can challenge that human brain has some capacity like everything has some capacity. like a computer processor has certain capacity, yo brain is like that. But byond your capacity there are infinite things that you never can touch or even think or imagine. So simply call it "Black". But as we are intelligent being , research will go no and on as long human exists. Because we are created to think and analize. Man is superior known creation on this planet(Earth).

    These statements fall beyond the scope of the OP.
    Last edited by Cogito Ergo Sum; September 14th, 2013 at 09:37 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NLN View Post
    If this actually happens, are we playing God?
    Playing what?

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    If the religion of choice is one of the Abrahamic faiths. God (if you believe in such things)didn't create life from nothing either. He used the elements of the earth to make life.

    7Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.
    - genesis 2:7

    I always find it funny when faithers don't know their own text.
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
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    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post
    If the religion of choice is one of the Abrahamic faiths. God (if you believe in such things)didn't create life from nothing either. He used the elements of the earth to make life.

    Did the Jewish-Christian god also use the elements of the Earth to make the animals and plants?
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    Lets leave mythology and religion out of the Biology Science sub-forum. Thank you.
    Last edited by Lynx_Fox; August 14th, 2013 at 04:36 PM.
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    Craig Venter close to creating synthetic life - life - 12 March 2013 - New Scientist

    Venter announced in 2010 that he had brought to life an almost completely synthetic version of the bacterium Mycoplasma mycoides, by transplanting it into the vacant shell of another bacterium. Venter's latest creation, which he has dubbed the Hail Mary Genome, will be made from scratch with genes he and his institute colleagues, Clyde Hutchison and Hamilton Smith, consider indispensable for life.
    The team is using computer simulations to better understand what is needed to create a simple, self-replicating cell. "Once we have a minimal chassis, we can add anything else to it," he says.
    I wish this could be realised so we can harvest its full potential.
    It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.
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  29. #28  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pyoko View Post
    I wish this could be realised so we can harvest its full potential.
    Shouldn't that have been followed by evil laughter...
    Dywyddyr and zunc like this.
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
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  30. #29  
    Moderator Moderator Cogito Ergo Sum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pyoko View Post
    I wish this could be realised so we can harvest its full potential.

    I am thinking about medical applications. What do you think?
    "The only safe rule is to dispute only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong."

    ~ Arthur Schopenhauer, The Art of Being Right: 38 Ways to Win an Argument (1831), Stratagem XXXVIII.
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  31. #30  
    Forum Senior MoonCanvas's Avatar
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    Well, we can probably create conscious life. Plants reproduce quickly, I bet we can selectively breed them to respond to the environment. Maybe start with a Venus Flytrap?
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  32. #31  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shlunka View Post
    Look down, between your legs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Canvas
    Plants reproduce quickly, I bet we can selectively breed them to respond to the environment. Maybe start with a Venus Flytrap?
    Only a warped mind would see the connection between these two posts.
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  33. #32  
    Forum Senior MoonCanvas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by shlunka View Post
    Look down, between your legs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Canvas
    Plants reproduce quickly, I bet we can selectively breed them to respond to the environment. Maybe start with a Venus Flytrap?
    Only a warped mind would see the connection between these two posts.
    Shlunka was talking about crabs, doesn't count.
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  34. #33  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
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    Would test tube babies be considered as creating life? (in a sense it is)
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    Moderator Moderator Cogito Ergo Sum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Would test tube babies be considered as creating life? (in a sense it is)

    Yes, but the OP meant "creating life from scratch".
    In other words, combining and altering non-living materials in such a way that it results into a living entity.

    Test tube babies do not fall under this notion, since you start from two living cells.
    "The only safe rule is to dispute only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong."

    ~ Arthur Schopenhauer, The Art of Being Right: 38 Ways to Win an Argument (1831), Stratagem XXXVIII.
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  36. #35  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cogito Ergo Sum View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Would test tube babies be considered as creating life? (in a sense it is)

    Yes, but the OP meant "creating life from scratch".
    In other words, combining and altering non-living materials in such a way that it results into a living entity.

    Test tube babies do not fall under this notion, since you start from two living cells.

    Mahalo for the clarification!
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  37. #36  
    Moderator Moderator Cogito Ergo Sum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Mahalo for the clarification!

    You are welcome.

    Quote Originally Posted by MoonCanvas View Post
    Well, we can probably create conscious life. Plants reproduce quickly, I bet we can selectively breed them to respond to the environment. Maybe start with a Venus Flytrap?

    Should we not start from a single cell, rather than from a highly complex and multicellular organism?
    Last edited by Cogito Ergo Sum; August 17th, 2013 at 08:18 PM. Reason: Additional information required.
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    "The only safe rule is to dispute only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong."

    ~ Arthur Schopenhauer, The Art of Being Right: 38 Ways to Win an Argument (1831), Stratagem XXXVIII.
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