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Thread: I have a question(Might be a dumb question)

  1. #1 I have a question(Might be a dumb question) 
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    Hello,
    Ive had this theory in my head for a long time
    Is it possible that our rods and cones are "projecting" the wrong colors to us and all the colors we are seeing are not real?
    Is it possible that everything in the world are different shades like black, grey, and white. Please respond


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    Forum Professor Zwirko's Avatar
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    Light has no colour, just properties such as energy, frequency and wavelength. Colour is created by our brains and exists only in our minds. There is no red, blue or green. In that sense, colours are not real; they are just perceptions. Or, to put it crudely: it's all in your head.


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    Forum Junior AndresKiani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zwirko View Post
    Light has no colour, just properties such as energy, frequency and wavelength. Colour is created by our brains and exists only in our minds. There is no red, blue or green. In that sense, colours are not real; they are just perceptions. Or, to put it crudely: it's all in your head.
    Yeah exactly, I was actually talking about this with a friend of mine. Color is not a property of the objects wee see, its a property of how our brains process information. The proteins in your eyes change shapes and such sending message to you brain causing you too see different colors when different wave properties between 300 - 700 nm.. which is what colors we can see.

    Probably a product of evolution to increase the probability of our survival, because more primitive eyes only saw shades, and even more primitive "Ocelli's" in the most basic organisms, gives them the ability to only sense light.
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    Forum Professor Zwolver's Avatar
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    Funny fact, there is no way to tell if the color we perceive is the same as somebody else perceives. And which one would be correct.
    Growing up, i marveled at star-trek's science, and ignored the perfect society. Now, i try to ignore their science, and marvel at the society.

    Imagine, being able to create matter out of thin air, and not coming up with using drones for boarding hostile ships. Or using drones to defend your own ship. Heck, using drones to block energy attacks, counterattack or for surveillance. Unless, of course, they are nano-machines in your blood, which is a billion times more complex..
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    flattened rat 甘肃人's Avatar
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    Another funny fact: a rainbow requires an observer. If no eye perceives it - it is not there.
    And what does the Lord require of you but to love justice, to be merciful and to walk humbly with Him?
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    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zwolver View Post
    Funny fact, there is no way to tell if the color we perceive is the same as somebody else perceives. And which one would be correct.

    Being an electrician we work with color coded wires so all of the colors of those wires are perceived exactly the same by everyone. If we couldn't see those same colors then we wouldn't know which wire went where.
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    Forum Professor Zwirko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post


    Being an electrician we work with color coded wires so all of the colors of those wires are perceived exactly the same by everyone. If we couldn't see those same colors then we wouldn't know which wire went where.
    How do you if know your blue is the same as my blue? Or if my blue is your brown?
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  9. #8  
    Bullshit Intolerant PhDemon's Avatar
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    You've missed the point, you and I look at a brown wire, we both agree it is brown but there is no way to be sure what you are seeing is the same "colour" I am seeing, we have just been "taught" when we see whatever that colour we see is it is called "brown". Ninja'd again...
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhDemon View Post
    You've missed the point, you and I look at a brown wire, we both agree it is brown but there is no way to be sure what you are seeing is the same "colour" I am seeing, we have just been "taught" when we see whatever that colour we see is it is called "brown". Ninja'd again...
    Actually, there is away. There are simple color tests, where people are asked to match colors by using dials (they mix either primary or complementary colors). If the dial settings at the end of the matching process are identical (or nearly so), then "my brown" is identical (or within an epsilon) to "your brown".
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    flattened rat 甘肃人's Avatar
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    Let's ramp this discussion up a peg. Is my Lady Gaga the same as your Lady Gaga?





    And what does the Lord require of you but to love justice, to be merciful and to walk humbly with Him?
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    Bullshit Intolerant PhDemon's Avatar
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    @Howard, but does that not just show they can agree on what constitutes a match to a particular combination? Not trying to be argumentative, this isn't my area but I can't see how this shows we percieve colours the same way. After the mixing we could agree we have made the same colour (brown) but isn't that still just applying a label to something we have been taught is "brown" regardless of how we actually percieve it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhDemon View Post
    @Howard, but does that not just show they can agree on what constitutes a match to a particular combination? Not trying to be argumentative, this isn't my area but I can't see how this shows we percieve colours the same way. After the mixing we could agree we have made the same colour (brown) but isn't that still just applying a label to something we have been taught is "brown" regardless of how we actually percieve it?
    Yes, absolutely. It also shows that the majority of people will agree on colors (modulo the Daltonists and the such). I used to work on a project (that mixed computer graphics and physics) with a Daltonist. It was amusing to get him name the colors in a rendering. He was making fun at himself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 甘肃人 View Post
    Let's ramp this discussion up a peg. Is my Lady Gaga the same as your Lady Gaga?





    Ahhh. "Alejamdro", a very good song.
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    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zwirko View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post


    Being an electrician we work with color coded wires so all of the colors of those wires are perceived exactly the same by everyone. If we couldn't see those same colors then we wouldn't know which wire went where.
    How do you if know your blue is the same as my blue? Or if my blue is your brown?
    All wires are color coded the same so that everyone knows the colors and their hues. This color organization has been in effect for well over 50 years now so that we all know the colors and they never change.

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  16. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zwirko View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post


    Being an electrician we work with color coded wires so all of the colors of those wires are perceived exactly the same by everyone. If we couldn't see those same colors then we wouldn't know which wire went where.
    How do you if know your blue is the same as my blue? Or if my blue is your brown?
    All wires are color coded the same so that everyone knows the colors and their hues. This color organization has been in effect for well over 50 years now so that we all know the colors and they never change.

    Cosmic, I think you've misunderstood Zwirko. I think Zwirko means that just because I have concept of the color green doesn't mean that it's the same as yours. We both agree that leaves are green, but what I might see and associate with the color green is the color you see and associate with red. While the color I see as red is the color you associate with green. We would both agree that trees are green and stops signs are red. I would have no way of knowing that the color I see as green is not actually the same green that you see. It's like try to describe a color to a colorblind person. Here is a link to an article on the subject: Your Color Red Really Could Be My Blue | Color Perception
    "For every moment of triumph, for every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled." Hunter S Thompson

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    Bullshit Intolerant PhDemon's Avatar
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    like for the above, this was the idea I was trying to get across but maybe I worded it badly...
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    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    I know that many people have color blindness that is not knowing what color they are seeing. Those people do have a problem for certain but as to any other problems with seeing colors there's very few humans that have that abnormality I would think.
    When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace.
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    Forum Ph.D.
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    Maybe someday in the (distant?) future scientists will be able to intercept the comms between the eyes and the brain, interpret it, and see if it is the same (or how different it is) for people.
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    Bullshit Intolerant PhDemon's Avatar
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    Cosmic, you are still missing the point, read post 15 again...
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhDemon View Post
    like for the above, this was the idea I was trying to get across but maybe I worded it badly...
    I think you worded it well. I was just trying to expand on it. But it is really a difficult idea to describe in text.

    Cosmic, in case you didn't follow my link here are a few quotes from it:

    Anyone with normal color vision agrees that blood is roughly the same color as strawberries, cardinals and the planet Mars. That is, they're all red. But could it be that what you call "red" is someone else's "blue"? Could people's color wheels be rotated with respect to one another's?
    Another color vision scientist, Joseph Carroll of the Medical College of Wisconsin, took it one step further: "I think we can say for certain that people don't see the same colors," he told Life's Little Mysteries. One person's red might be another person's blue and vice versa, the scientists said. You might really see blood as the color someone else calls blue, and the sky as someone else's red. But our individual perceptions don't affect the way the color of blood, or that of the sky, make us feel.
    Does that help at all?
    "For every moment of triumph, for every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled." Hunter S Thompson

    "It is easy to kill someone with a slash of a sword. It is hard to be impossible for others to cut down"
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    Forum Ph.D.
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    I have a question(Might be a dumb question)
    On the contrary, a very good question.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chucknorium View Post
    I have a question(Might be a dumb question)
    On the contrary, a very good question.
    Indeed! The topic of qualia has consumed many navel-gazing hours. While we can agree that this thing over here is the colour red, and that thing over there is the colour green, we don't yet have a way of knowing whether the mental image we associate with those terms varies from individual to individual. Maybe one day we'll be able to "get into" the head of someone else and finally answer the question, but that day isn't here yet.
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