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Thread: what is teh most possible way to make human to live for ever

  1. #1 what is teh most possible way to make human to live for ever 
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    make it illegal for people to die ?


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    If we could find a way to function without taking in oxygen, we'd probably live a lot longer. That's about as "probable" as I can come up with.
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    I trained my dog to live without oxygen, by gradually reducing his intake.
    Unfortunately he died, coincidentally, just as we reached the "zero oxygen" level, so I don't know how extra many years he would have lived.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    I trained my dog to live without oxygen, by gradually reducing his intake.Unfortunately he died, coincidentally, just as we reached the "zero oxygen" level, so I don't know how extra many years he would have lived.
    I fed my dog a calcium tritium mix.
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    The best I can come up with is, we already live forever through our children, because they are made from our blood, flesh, and spirit.
    They take the genetic code into the future, evolution is a constant.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    The best I can come up with is, we already live forever through our children, because they are made from our blood, flesh, and spirit.
    They take the genetic code into the future, evolution is a constant.
    I concur.
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    To make a human live forever, is not the same as making one survive forever. Surviving is making sure your body is not dead. Living is having fun. Living is your thoughts. If your thoughts, and your brain is copied and pasted to a computer, and your original body/brain is killed, are you still alive?
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    freeze yourself into the unfathomable depths of the pacific ocean.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sir ir r aj View Post
    freeze yourself into the unfathomable depths of the pacific ocean.
    The maximum depth of the Pacific is 10,911 meters. It's not all that unfathomable. In fact, given the conversion ratio, that's about 5,966 fathoms. There. I fathomed it for you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Weterman View Post
    To make a human live forever, is not the same as making one survive forever. Surviving is making sure your body is not dead. Living is having fun. Living is your thoughts. If your thoughts, and your brain is copied and pasted to a computer, and your original body/brain is killed, are you still alive?
    In some sense I see what you are saying, however if your children are made from the same cells as yours there is a continuum.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    If we could find a way to function without taking in oxygen, we'd probably live a lot longer. That's about as "probable" as I can come up with.
    As it is true superoxides slowly kill us. This is only true because of the random errors, shortening telomeres, and the rigidicy and inability for some cells to divide, and thus divide..

    If we could become the tumor ourselves, we would be immortal..
    Growing up, i marveled at star-trek's science, and ignored the perfect society. Now, i try to ignore their science, and marvel at the society.

    Imagine, being able to create matter out of thin air, and not coming up with using drones for boarding hostile ships. Or using drones to defend your own ship. Heck, using drones to block energy attacks, counterattack or for surveillance. Unless, of course, they are nano-machines in your blood, which is a billion times more complex..
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    Lock them in a grey room with no activity. They might die just as quickly but the endless boredom will make them think it took forever.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan hunter View Post
    Lock them in a grey room with no activity. They might die just as quickly but the endless boredom will make them think it took forever.
    Reminds me of something Anthony Clark said about Gladys, Virginia; "If you have one year left to live, I suggest you move there because every day seems like an eternity."
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    with transplants you can repair your body for arbitrary long time
    for the brain it will be more complicated....
    I guess, we could receive immature foetal brain part transplants, that i guess would integrate them selves with the rest of the brain...
    For our explicit memories .... maybe inject new nerve cells in the relevant brain part....
    Does this count as living for ever???
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quantum immortal View Post
    with transplants you can repair your body for arbitrary long time
    for the brain it will be more complicated....
    I guess, we could receive immature foetal brain part transplants, that i guess would integrate them selves with the rest of the brain...
    For our explicit memories .... maybe inject new nerve cells in the relevant brain part....
    Does this count as living for ever???
    there is a limit on transplanting organs. whether they match or not, or they may be expensive.
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    The higher the age, the higher the risk of transplants. So no, life can not be extended by transplantation. Not even a day. It will only be shortened. (natural death will be closer by, while you may be saved from livercancer)

    Like i said before.. Only if we become the tumor ourselves, we will be immortal. Only and ONLY then, so stop being blind about it.

    We can upload our brain to a computer, but then we will die, but our memories will live on, and perform without us.

    We could clone ourselves, but the original will still die.

    We could put our brain in a machine, but the brain will still wither (very quickly) because it lacks the stimulae it should get, and isn't receiving in a machine, because we could never get it that hightech.

    We could inject ourselves with nanobots, let those nanobots replicate cells for us, using alternate division methods, (like cancerous growth) and we will be immortal. Until out body rejects it, we get infested with ulcers and don't want to live anymore, or the growth is totally out of control.
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    Growing up, i marveled at star-trek's science, and ignored the perfect society. Now, i try to ignore their science, and marvel at the society.

    Imagine, being able to create matter out of thin air, and not coming up with using drones for boarding hostile ships. Or using drones to defend your own ship. Heck, using drones to block energy attacks, counterattack or for surveillance. Unless, of course, they are nano-machines in your blood, which is a billion times more complex..
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    O_o
    I highly doubt the assertion that transplants makes you live less....

    Its reasonable to assume, that matching good quality transplant will be made on demand some day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zwolver View Post
    The higher the age, the higher the risk of transplants. So no, life can not be extended by transplantation. Not even a day. It will only be shortened. (natural death will be closer by, while you may be saved from livercancer)

    Like i said before.. Only if we become the tumor ourselves, we will be immortal. Only and ONLY then, so stop being blind about it.

    We can upload our brain to a computer, but then we will die, but our memories will live on, and perform without us.

    We could clone ourselves, but the original will still die.

    We could put our brain in a machine, but the brain will still wither (very quickly) because it lacks the stimulae it should get, and isn't receiving in a machine, because we could never get it that hightech.

    We could inject ourselves with nanobots, let those nanobots replicate cells for us, using alternate division methods, (like cancerous growth) and we will be immortal. Until out body rejects it, we get infested with ulcers and don't want to live anymore, or the growth is totally out of control.
    It seems the best bet to mortality is death.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Weterman View Post
    To make a human live forever, is not the same as making one survive forever. Surviving is making sure your body is not dead. Living is having fun. Living is your thoughts. If your thoughts, and your brain is copied and pasted to a computer, and your original body/brain is killed, are you still alive?
    In some sense I see what you are saying, however if your children are made from the same cells as yours there is a continuum.
    true, in a way.But what a human wants, is to have control over a body. A person may not have control over a body if he dies. Or does he? Consciousness, real or fake?

    this thread is sort of connected to what we say.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Weterman View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Weterman View Post
    To make a human live forever, is not the same as making one survive forever. Surviving is making sure your body is not dead. Living is having fun. Living is your thoughts. If your thoughts, and your brain is copied and pasted to a computer, and your original body/brain is killed, are you still alive?
    In some sense I see what you are saying, however if your children are made from the same cells as yours there is a continuum.
    true, in a way.But what a human wants, is to have control over a body. A person may not have control over a body if he dies. Or does he? Consciousness, real or fake?

    this thread is sort of connected to what we say.
    If you look at death as final, I may want to agree with you, but if you look at it as change, you are not sure of the level of consciousness in a changing particle.
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    Lol... In my eyes there is just one view on death. Which is the end of a life. You may call it a beginning, but for the one dying it's the end.
    Growing up, i marveled at star-trek's science, and ignored the perfect society. Now, i try to ignore their science, and marvel at the society.

    Imagine, being able to create matter out of thin air, and not coming up with using drones for boarding hostile ships. Or using drones to defend your own ship. Heck, using drones to block energy attacks, counterattack or for surveillance. Unless, of course, they are nano-machines in your blood, which is a billion times more complex..
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zwolver View Post

    We could put our brain in a machine, but the brain will still wither (very quickly) because it lacks the stimulae it should get, and isn't receiving in a machine, because we could never get it that hightech.
    Why can't we have a high tech machine with senses? It doesn't sound that impossible, just rather difficult. In the mean time, we can rely on biologically based treatments for damage. We can reduce the toxic effects of mitochondrial mutation, by cloning the few genes that are necessary, and placing this backup copy inside the nucleus, and therefore less likely to be damaged. We can develop methods to repair DNA, stem cell treatments for organs and tissue damage, and possibly nano-technology treatment for cancer, or other more biologically based solutions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zwolver View Post
    Lol... In my eyes there is just one view on death. Which is the end of a life. You may call it a beginning, but for the one dying it's the end.
    However, you cannot say that it is not the beginning either.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zwolver View Post
    Lol... In my eyes there is just one view on death. Which is the end of a life. You may call it a beginning, but for the one dying it's the end.
    However, you cannot say that it is not the beginning either.
    You can with reasonable certainty.
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curiosity View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zwolver View Post

    We could put our brain in a machine, but the brain will still wither (very quickly) because it lacks the stimulae it should get, and isn't receiving in a machine, because we could never get it that hightech.

    Why can't we have a high tech machine with senses? It doesn't sound that impossible, just rather difficult. In the mean time, we can rely on biologically based treatments for damage. We can reduce the toxic effects of mitochondrial mutation, by cloning the few genes that are necessary, and placing this backup copy inside the nucleus, and therefore less likely to be damaged. We can develop methods to repair DNA, stem cell treatments for organs and tissue damage, and possibly nano-technology treatment for cancer, or other more biologically based solutions.
    The way I see it we already have that in our systems, I guess for you is, you want to have your cake and eat it. The truth is, only you can have your cake and eat it at the same time. if you are going to run some experiments, I would like to follow you on the trip.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zwolver View Post
    Lol... In my eyes there is just one view on death. Which is the end of a life. You may call it a beginning, but for the one dying it's the end.
    However, you cannot say that it is not the beginning either.
    You can with reasonable certainty.
    Even if you look at it from a recycling basis? I would think, although I may be wrong that consciousness must be in every fiber of our beings, or do you think its only in our minds?. I noticed you mentioned, "with reasonable certainty"
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    @stargate, work is already being done in this very problem: stopping aging, age related decline, and death. I'm just trying to point out, that death from disease, is a result of accumulated damage, that is possible to repair with future technology.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curiosity View Post
    @stargate, work is already being done in this very problem: stopping aging, age related decline, and death. I'm just trying to point out, that death from disease, is a result of accumulated damage, that is possible to repair with future technology.
    Yes I agree.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Curiosity View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zwolver View Post

    We could put our brain in a machine, but the brain will still wither (very quickly) because it lacks the stimulae it should get, and isn't receiving in a machine, because we could never get it that hightech.

    Why can't we have a high tech machine with senses? It doesn't sound that impossible, just rather difficult. In the mean time, we can rely on biologically based treatments for damage. We can reduce the toxic effects of mitochondrial mutation, by cloning the few genes that are necessary, and placing this backup copy inside the nucleus, and therefore less likely to be damaged. We can develop methods to repair DNA, stem cell treatments for organs and tissue damage, and possibly nano-technology treatment for cancer, or other more biologically based solutions.
    The way I see it we already have that in our systems, I guess for you is, you want to have your cake and eat it. The truth is, only you can have your cake and eat it at the same time. if you are going to run some experiments, I would like to follow you on the trip.
    Yep, most of the DNA/RNA related DNA in our genome is to repair the damages. There is little we can add, to improve the reparation because it would make our genome too heavy.

    We can not put our brain and expect it to live as long as it would in our body. Our body is the perfect place for the brain. Putting it in another place will never be as good as our own body. Thus lowering the length of time the brain will live, and making it wither faster.

    Several reasons are added to this "imperfection" that can not be perfectly created by a machine.
    - Bioelectric echo.
    - Hormonal imput from the body.
    - T-Cell intervention.
    - Bonemarrow.
    -
    Growing up, i marveled at star-trek's science, and ignored the perfect society. Now, i try to ignore their science, and marvel at the society.

    Imagine, being able to create matter out of thin air, and not coming up with using drones for boarding hostile ships. Or using drones to defend your own ship. Heck, using drones to block energy attacks, counterattack or for surveillance. Unless, of course, they are nano-machines in your blood, which is a billion times more complex..
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    From what I'm reading so far (in Ending Aging), 'while all aging animals accumulate nuclear mutations, the rate at which longer lived animals suffer free radical damage to the nuclear DNA doesn't correlate well with their maximum life spans'. However, in an animal study, mice were given genes that allowed them to produce larger quantities of catalase (an antioxidant molecule), and by placing catalase into their mitochondria, there was a reduced susceptibility to age-related diseases, and an increase of 20% of maximum life span, (Schriner et al. 2005 & Schriner et al. 2006). The 2005 article can be found by searching for 'Extension of murine lifespan by over expression of catalase targeted to mitochondria', and the 2006: 'Extension of murine lifespan by over expression of catalase'.

    It supports the idea that nuclear mutation, is not too much of a problem, and that mitochondrial mutation is the one we should be targeting.

    On the note of our body being the perfect place, our body kills us eventually, not that perfect. And you're claiming that that list can never be created by artificial means or biotechnology? That's a pretty strong claim, that it just can't be done.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curiosity View Post
    From what I'm reading so far (in Ending Aging), 'while all aging animals accumulate nuclear mutations, the rate at which longer lived animals suffer free radical damage to the nuclear DNA doesn't correlate well with their maximum life spans'. However, in an animal study, mice were given genes that allowed them to produce larger quantities of catalase (an antioxidant molecule), and by placing catalase into their mitochondria, there was a reduced susceptibility to age-related diseases, and an increase of 20% of maximum life span, (Schriner et al. 2005 & Schriner et al. 2006). The 2005 article can be found by searching for 'Extension of murine lifespan by over expression of catalase targeted to mitochondria', and the 2006: 'Extension of murine lifespan by over expression of catalase'.

    It supports the idea that nuclear mutation, is not too much of a problem, and that mitochondrial mutation is the one we should be targeting.

    On the note of our body being the perfect place, our body kills us eventually, not that perfect. And you're claiming that that list can never be created by artificial means or biotechnology? That's a pretty strong claim, that it just can't be done.
    I think the body is not really killing us, but changing and adopting to new information that fuels evolution.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zwolver View Post
    Lol... In my eyes there is just one view on death. Which is the end of a life. You may call it a beginning, but for the one dying it's the end.
    However, you cannot say that it is not the beginning either.
    You can with reasonable certainty.
    I would think, although I may be wrong that consciousness must be in every fiber of our beings, or do you think its only in our minds?
    Lop off your arm and let me know what it thinks about that.

    Our consciousness is within our brains. Once our brain ceases to function, so does our consciousness.

    I say "with reasonable certainty" because some things cannot be fully proven. Evolution, for instance. We, at some point, have to decide that the evidence is so overwhelming in favor of one idea that we must assume it to be true.

    If you're driving down the road, do you struggle with the idea of turning your steering wheel to the left to make a left hand turn because it is possible that you won't actually make the turn even though evidence from a thousand prior turns suggests that you will? No. You're reasonably certain your car will do as instructed (unless you drive a Lada).
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zwolver View Post
    Lol... In my eyes there is just one view on death. Which is the end of a life. You may call it a beginning, but for the one dying it's the end.
    However, you cannot say that it is not the beginning either.
    You can with reasonable certainty.
    I would think, although I may be wrong that consciousness must be in every fiber of our beings, or do you think its only in our minds?
    Lop off your arm and let me know what it thinks about that.

    Our consciousness is within our brains. Once our brain ceases to function, so does our consciousness.

    I say "with reasonable certainty" because some things cannot be fully proven. Evolution, for instance. We, at some point, have to decide that the evidence is so overwhelming in favor of one idea that we must assume it to be true.

    If you're driving down the road, do you struggle with the idea of turning your steering wheel to the left to make a left hand turn because it is possible that you won't actually make the turn even though evidence from a thousand prior turns suggests that you will? No. You're reasonably certain your car will do as instructed (unless you drive a Lada).
    How would you explain the body of a headless chicken jumping all over the place, you could say its the nervous system responding, you could also say the body is conscious that it has lost its head.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    How would you explain the body of a headless chicken jumping all over the place, you could say its the nervous system responding, you could also say the body is conscious that it has lost its head.
    I COULD say it was a conscious body that lost its head.

    I would be wrong...
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    Stargate, please google a bit more before replying. Your replies are hurting my eyes, and cluttering up the thread.
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    You get used to his blend of clueless nonsense after a while...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    I would think, although I may be wrong that consciousness must be in every fiber of our beings
    You're wrong.
    Please stop posting in the actual science sub-fora.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curiosity View Post
    Stargate, please google a bit more before replying. Your replies are hurting my eyes, and cluttering up the thread.
    I did Google and did not find anything I think would do better that I have explained, so please you Google and see what you find I would be grateful, Thanks.
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    Okay, so what that tells me, is not that you're necessarily lazy, you just lack research and analytical skills.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Curiosity View Post
    Stargate, please google a bit more before replying. Your replies are hurting my eyes, and cluttering up the thread.
    I did Google and did not find anything I think would do better that I have explained, so please you Google and see what you find I would be grateful, Thanks.
    A basic understanding of how the nervous system functions would suffice.
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curiosity View Post
    Okay, so what that tells me, is not that you're necessarily lazy, you just lack research and analytical skills.
    ...added to a penchent to make stuff up and to believe in any random anti-science woo that's hanging around.

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    Bahaha what the hell is that PhDemon?
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    *Hit the nail on the head*
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    Oh good, it's not something elaborate like I'm a hammer that just sees everything as nail :P we all have our limitations, mine is sometimes not getting jokes. ANYWAYS back to the topic haha anybody in the biotech industry that can talk about future possibilities?
    Last edited by Curiosity; February 11th, 2014 at 08:07 AM. Reason: More on-topic
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curiosity View Post
    Okay, so what that tells me, is not that you're necessarily lazy, you just lack research and analytical skills.
    Curiosity, I am good at somethings and bad at others, lets not go into that overlord thing, if you can be helpful I would appreciate it, but other wise I will move on. Somethings are easy and somethings are hard. I am not lacking analytical skill in every subject.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Curiosity View Post
    Okay, so what that tells me, is not that you're necessarily lazy, you just lack research and analytical skills.
    Curiosity, I am good at somethings and bad at others, lets not go into that overlord thing, if you can be helpful I would appreciate it, but other wise I will move on. Somethings are easy and somethings are hard. I am not lacking analytical skill in every subject.
    You have to give us a reasonable starting point. You're saying that a headless chicken's body moving could be sign of a body consciousness. That isn't a starting position. You need to demonstrate some understanding of how a nervous system functions to get any real help. Personally, I'm not up for teaching two semesters of Bio 101 to answer this silly thread.
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    Here's some help then, either find some biology books through high school booklists or college booklists, or just go to a second hand book store, and pick up a couple of books, and read that shit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    I am not lacking analytical skill in every subject.
    This is typical of you.
    There isn't analytical skill IN a subject: it's a basic.
    And you do lack it.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
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    I think a basic philosophy class in logic would go a long way, it can be quite useful indeed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curiosity View Post
    Oh good, it's not something elaborate like I'm a hammer that just sees everything as nail :P we all have our limitations, mine is sometimes not getting jokes. ANYWAYS back to the topic haha anybody in the biotech industry that can talk about future possibilities?
    Well, there are some running experiments using rats and a certain type of conditioned air, as oxygen that is conditioned to create less superoxides is prefered. I don't rate that research pretty high, i think it's a dud.

    Secondly, there are some jellyfish genes that can bring DNA back to a embryonic stage, getting this type of initiation, and proteins into a body by using any vector would be spectarular. I hope artificial virus particles could get prote´ns into a cell. Which could make cells young again. I give this an average succes rate.

    Third thing i heard of is a medication used to slow down growth, that would actually lengthen telomeres, instead of shortening it by each division. However, this substance is toxic... For now..
    Growing up, i marveled at star-trek's science, and ignored the perfect society. Now, i try to ignore their science, and marvel at the society.

    Imagine, being able to create matter out of thin air, and not coming up with using drones for boarding hostile ships. Or using drones to defend your own ship. Heck, using drones to block energy attacks, counterattack or for surveillance. Unless, of course, they are nano-machines in your blood, which is a billion times more complex..
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    You are not your body, you are the process emerging from the interaction between molecules you perceive as your body in general (your brain in particular) and the environment (of which these molecules and you are a part of).

    Hard drives and various machines can make thousands of movements per second. One could imagine that a scan of multiple samples of DNA could be made to establish a standard template for your DNA, then cells (or stem cells) could be grown in a vat, which could be at the bottom of a cyrosleep like tub/tube/sarchophagus. You take a nap in the sarchophagus like in Stargate, and while asleep your body could be scanned and cells destroyed and replaced by injections of scanned and approved cells from the growth tank below.
    Such a machine could prolong the life of someone, and by the time such a machine is possible, the leaps in science will probably mean that as the persons life expectancy increases the machine becomes increasingly able to replace cells with new (if not better) cells and update medical nanites in your body, which means someone could live for a very very long time, and eventually, if neural pathways can be scanned you could recreate the brain with molecular tech or create a simulation so fine that the simulation is basically you and can switch to a alternate cyber form(android etc).
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    If you wanna see an ambitious project, go have a look at the 2045 initiative :P
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curiosity View Post
    If you wanna see an ambitious project, go have a look at the 2045 initiative :P
    It reminds me of some old science fiction stories.
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    haha, except we're trying to develop tech to actually do it
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    don't be born!
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