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Thread: Microorganism intelligence

  1. #101  
    Anti-Crank AlexG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burning virus View Post
    What I'm trying to say is I'm sorry for bieng stupid but if you really knew me you would know I'm not always stupid
    Stupid once, stupid always.
    Its the way nature is!
    If you dont like it, go somewhere else....
    To another universe, where the rules are simpler
    Philosophically more pleasing, more psychologically easy
    Prof Richard Feynman (1979) .....

    Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig, es ist nicht einmal falsch!"
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  2. #102  
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    Very funny I know I was bieng stupid on this one but I think most of my threads are valid . Listen it's My curfew talk to guys later
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  3. #103  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burning virus View Post
    What I'm trying to say is I'm sorry for bieng stupid but if you really knew me you would know I'm not always stupid
    says the guy that's collecting samples from the sewers
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  4. #104  
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    That was joke bio come really I was just courious
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  5. #105  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burning virus View Post
    What I'm trying to say is I'm sorry for bieng stupid but if you really knew me you would know I'm not always stupid
    You are a bit like myself, so be very careful what you say, for you will burnout once they all start hammering at you.
    Are you only 13? Just be careful, but don't stop questioning things.
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  6. #106  
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Is English your native language ? If so, do you suffer from dyslexia, or similar problem? Your grammar and spelling make your writing difficult to understand. It does not require intelligence to adapt. Indeed, intelligence does not foster adaptation. Your idea, as far as I am able to understand it, is imaginative, but quite wrong.
    Maybe Google Translator?
    He is numb from his toes down
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  7. #107  
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    Yeah, don't go over your head testing stuff if there are more than enough things you can learn by reading. Or just watch science shows on discovery. The more you watch those, google stuff afterwards, the more you disagree with all of those guys. At least i cringe about 10 times every hour from every fact gone wrong on discovery. Not to mention history channel with their alien bullshit..
    Growing up, i marveled at star-trek's science, and ignored the perfect society. Now, i try to ignore their science, and marvel at the society.

    Imagine, being able to create matter out of thin air, and not coming up with using drones for boarding hostile ships. Or using drones to defend your own ship. Heck, using drones to block energy attacks, counterattack or for surveillance. Unless, of course, they are nano-machines in your blood, which is a billion times more complex..
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  8. #108  
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexG View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Burning virus View Post
    What I'm trying to say is I'm sorry for bieng stupid but if you really knew me you would know I'm not always stupid
    Stupid once, stupid always.
    That's a pretty stupid comment.
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  9. #109  
    Forum Masters Degree DianeG's Avatar
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    Aw, c'mon. He's 13. And the origin of intelligence, or how far back you can trace it phylogenically is a good topic. And it also raises the obvious question - if a single cell is not intelligent, why are groups of interacting cells in our brain intelligent? Yes, I understand that "more is different" and the idea of emergent properties. Never the less, there has to be causal links between an emergent phenomenon and what it emerges from (unless you adhere to some supernatural or dualist belief regarding the mind.)

    So I would challenge all you smarty pants adults out there - define intelligence. Define thinking. Define instinct. Define consciousness. Where are the boundaries and cut-offs for these things? What is necessary and sufficient for each? It's not as easy and obvious as it sounds.

    If anyone is genuinely interested, here are two nice articles, one from Scientific American and another from Science Daily.


    How Brainless Slime Molds Redefine Intelligence
    http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/brainless-slime-molds/

    Smart Neurons: Single Neuronal Dendrites Can Perform Computations
    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/10/131027140632.htm
    Last edited by DianeG; January 23rd, 2014 at 07:49 PM.
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  10. #110  
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    Quote Originally Posted by DianeG View Post
    Aw, c'mon. He's 13. And the origin of intelligence, or how far back you can trace it phylogenically is a good topic. And it also raises the obvious question - if a single cell is not intelligent, why are groups of interacting cells in our brain intelligent? Yes, I understand that "more is different" and the idea of emergent properties. Never the less, there has to be causal links between an emergent phenomenon and what it emerges from (unless you adhere to some supernatural or dualist belief regarding the mind.)

    So I would challenge all you smarty pants adults out there - define intelligence. Define thinking. Define instinct. Define consciousness. Where are the boundaries and cut-offs for these things? What is necessary and sufficient for each? It's not a easy and obvious as it sounds.

    If anyone is genuinely interested, here are two nice articles, one from Scientific American and another from Science Daily.


    How Brainless Slime Molds Redefine Intelligence
    http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/brainless-slime-molds/

    Smart Neurons: Single Neuronal Dendrites Can Perform Computations
    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/10/131027140632.htm
    yey another idiot
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  11. #111  
    Forum Masters Degree DianeG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bio View Post


    yey another idiot
    An ad hominem response. And an ironically childish one after picking on a kid. lol.
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  12. #112  
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    can't take you seriously.
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  13. #113  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zwolver View Post
    I agree, we should limit intelligence to everything we can not yet create. A computer isn't intelligent. A goldfish however is.. A cockroach is intelligent. Bacteria, fungi, and plants however do not classify my scale as intelligence. Because they use way simpler methods to transfer signals.

    Good scale, everything higher than an ant, is intelligent.. So most politicians won't fit the scale.
    I think you'd get an argument from AI people about computers and intelligence, as far as memory, logic, problem solving, flexibility of response, perception, and even learning. All the computer lacks is consciousness. So far any way.
    Last edited by DianeG; January 23rd, 2014 at 07:46 PM.
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  14. #114  
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    You know bio I understand your point and I know it's not really really a debate but it's an interesting discussion . The origin and definition of intelligence and instinct it is pretty cool . But why'd you have to call Disne G an idiot and me stupid we just thinking outside the box
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  15. #115  
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    Quote Originally Posted by bio View Post
    yey another idiot
    Moderator Warning: Stop the personal remarks. Thirteen year old science enthusiasts and those supporting them are to be encouraged, not subjected to insulting ad hominems. Cut it out. AlexG, that goes for you as well.
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  16. #116  
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    Exactly

    Nobody who tries to understand is an idiot. Those who stick with what their parents told them, and don't think for themselves are probably idiots.

    (The slime mold piece is really interesting.. The video blew my mind..)
    Growing up, i marveled at star-trek's science, and ignored the perfect society. Now, i try to ignore their science, and marvel at the society.

    Imagine, being able to create matter out of thin air, and not coming up with using drones for boarding hostile ships. Or using drones to defend your own ship. Heck, using drones to block energy attacks, counterattack or for surveillance. Unless, of course, they are nano-machines in your blood, which is a billion times more complex..
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  17. #117  
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    Thank you zwolver the slime mold piece was interesting to me as well and ps bio I like you as a friend I thought you were cool originally I don't think that thinking outside the box and trying to define something is being an idiot .Also Alex G how can you say once stupid always stupid? No one knows everything and if you claim. To your stupid yourself
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  18. #118  
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    yeah sorry you know what i was wright. microorganisms have intellegince of 2fiddy72 iq and they are currently making plans to take over the world

    sorry guys ma bad
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  19. #119  
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    You don't have a smart ads about it we're just saying to think outside the box .
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  20. #120  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burning virus View Post
    we're just saying to think outside the box .
    Please stop using that phrase.
    Apart from the fact that it's a typical crank catch phrase, how can you "think outside the box" when you don't even know what the box is?
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    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
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  21. #121  
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    Lol.. The world is full of crank catch phrases...

    YOLO..

    Mindfullness..

    "I'm spontaneous and i like long walks on the beach and horseriding"

    Everything pointing at, Hipsters, hiphoppers (gangbangers, rapers, players, husslers)..

    The word mothaf*cka, whateffs, so what, or for real yo's

    "I can work individually, but i work well in teams as well"

    "a day without laughter, is a day lost living"



    But i agree. Before you can start thinking outside the box, you should know the inside of the box first. Otherwise you would end up knowing what is outside the box, without knowing what's in it. This kinda nullifies the use of thinking outside the box.

    Example. Before you learn to fly, you should first learn to move, then crawl, then walk, run, jump.... Then, and only then, you should try to fly. But only if you are a bird, an avionic insect, a bat, an airplane, a balloon, or a guy in a mental hospital..
    Growing up, i marveled at star-trek's science, and ignored the perfect society. Now, i try to ignore their science, and marvel at the society.

    Imagine, being able to create matter out of thin air, and not coming up with using drones for boarding hostile ships. Or using drones to defend your own ship. Heck, using drones to block energy attacks, counterattack or for surveillance. Unless, of course, they are nano-machines in your blood, which is a billion times more complex..
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  22. #122  
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    Quote Originally Posted by DianeG View Post

    That's not entirely true. Single cell organisms demonstrate chemotaxis, in which they move towards higher concentrations of nutrients, and away from lower concentrations. They also move away from higher concentrations of noxious chemicals. Higher concentrations cause the bacteria to move for a longer period of time in one direction, and lower concentrations cause the bacteria to change direction more frequently.This sounds like a simple stimulus response mechanism, but in order to do that they have to have a way of comparing one measurement with the next, that is, they have to store that information, however briefly. If you google chemotaxis, you can find articles explaining the chemical mechanism. My point, though, is that it is a kind of memory process at the most rudimentary level.

    It may not qualify as "intelligence," but then you'd have to define what that word really means on a biological level.

    Your post made me imagine a behaviorist doing experiments on unicellular organisms using...


    COCAINE!!!



    :EDIT:

    I'll just link this fast. No relation.

    Heather Barnett :: Current Projects

    Last edited by Beer w/Straw; January 24th, 2014 at 05:15 PM.
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  23. #123  
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    Ok I Guess your right but all I,m saying is intelligence is a extremely hard thing to define. Deeply for anyone really.
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  24. #124  
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    Well, with such low standards for intelligence, there is little that is not intelligent - including sodium/water (and even politicians).

    But when virtually everything is considered as intelligent, then the word 'intelligent' means almost nothing.

    And if chemicals are considered to be intelligent, then what isn't intelligent?
    That is a very good point.

    It certainly gets more challenging to talk about intelligence or even “information processing” when you try to reduce it to its simplest forms. Most people would say a ball rolling down hill is not intelligent and not processing information, just responding to an exerted force.

    Mechanical objects like thermostats or flush toilets are more complex and involve a feed back loop. When the temperature in your house falls, the little copper wire in the thermostat bends and kicks on the furnace. When the temperatures rises to a set point, the thermostat makes the furnace shut off. We wouldn’t call this intelligence, but is it processing information in any way?


    That is part of the problem with intelligence at the cellular level – is it more like the simple feed back loop of a thermostat? What about mosquitoes? If a mosquito takes off before a looming hand slaps it, or is attracted to the warmth or CO2 emitted by its host, is that also just “stimulus/response” or is the mosquito processing information and demonstrating some minimal form of intelligence?


    Does intelligence require internally generated goals, or flexibility and variety of possible responses? The difference between “instinct” and “intelligence” may be just the number of possible responses to a stimulus, the ability to evaluate outcomes and store that information, and acquire new responses through experience and learning.
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  25. #125  
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    That my friend just solved the debate right there . Wonderful statement!
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  26. #126  
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    I thought of you Burning Virus when i read this article today. Hope you like it.

    Social amoebae travel with a posse: Tiny single-celled organisms have amazingly complicated social lives


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  27. #127  
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    Wow even I didn't think of that . Thank you for the article .By the way sorry. I haven't been active busy with schoolAnd other forums.
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